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Jazz chord symbols and further Jazz related discussion
In an effort to get to grips with jazz I'm looking through all the theory apps I have. Trying to find one that will show guitar chords with jazz symbols. No luck so far. Are there any chord apps anyone can recommend that will show chords with jazz symbols?
Comments
Not sure what you mean by jazz symbols. Chord symbols are chord symbols no matter which style of music. Do you have en example?
This might help: https://tsmp.org/keyboard/lias/pdf/Symbols.pdf
If you mean fairly loose standards (like using - for minor and Δ for major), those are listed as alternate symbols in Tonality
iReal Pro has a good guitar chord library and shows fingerings. If you mean Roman Numeral Chords I don't think it can do those.
Part of the problem you're going to run into here is that there is no standard for Jazz chord symbols as everyone interprets them slightly differently (and you just have to learn the variants).
https://mdecks.com/mapharmony.phtml is probably more than you want/need (it certainly seems to be more than I want), but it does handle these properly. IReal Pro (which is kind of like band in a box, and is useful if you don't have it) also shows them properly.
Could you post a picture of the symbols you mean? I can think of only four used in chord symbols other than letters like M or m and numbers that indicate intervals. Delta means major. ‘o’ as a superscript means diminished and a 0 with a diagonal line is a minor 7 b5 (also called half-diminished) chord. And ‘-‘ is used by some for minor.
Are there others I’m forgetting?
@espiegel123 Also curious about this. The only other ones I've seen rarely are "mi" for minor and "+" for augmented
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&url=http://threadoflunacy.blogspot.com/p/just-for-curious.html&psig=AOvVaw3TkgCN2CTt01JJIoziS1-J&ust=1607790486027000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAIQjRxqFwoTCNiz6Lmsxu0CFQAAAAAdAAAAABAD
Unless you mean these?
I believe those are Allan Holdsworth's private notation system which meant nothing to anyone but him (by his own admission -- he developed them because his way of thinking about scales and harmony was his own personal invention)
Keenly observed!
This is a more typical example of chord symbols you would find on a jazz lead sheet, and yes, the symbols themselves are not unique to jazz
https://music.utah.edu/documents/ensemble-audition-excerpts/jazz/DonnaLeeC.pdf
As for learning what the chord symbols stand for, I haven't found a shortcut around finding each chord on the guitar or piano, and playing the chord. It was through repetition after repetition that I ground into my brain how to play Gmin7b5 (also notated with the G "half-diminished" symbol) as a shell voicing, and where to play it on the neck so it flows nicely to C5.
If you learn chord shell voicings, you will have a quicker path to playing the chords on guitar or piano, because you'd only have to find 3 notes per chord. The chords in the Donna Lee chart posted above, for example can be learned much more quickly as shell voicings.
That's great, might print that out. Thanks.
I thought it did but I couldn't find it in settings. Will have a better look.
Just checked it out. It's seems great. Thank you.
That's good to know. That was sort of the problem I saw so I'm glad you cleared it up. Seemed like I was seeing slightly differences in chord naming that was/is confusing.
I bought mapharmony. I find some things there confusing which is sort of what prompted me to want to cement an understanding of new or different chord symbols. For example the picture below shows a chord containing (if I'm not mistaken) 1, 3, major 7, 9. But the chord symbol as far as I was/am aware is Cmaj.
Don't think so. It's just totally new tome so I wanted something that uses these as a standard across all chords so I can get used to recognising them as I do other chord naming.
No not those, but I have seen that. Interesting but not something I want to confuse myself with. Thanks though.
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Not sure what font that is but it's really clear to read. For older eyes that is.
@Ailerom It's just a list of alternate symbols on the page accessed after selecting a chord from the main table. I'm eventually going to make a setting to choose your preferred notation. You can also use the built-in keyboard to type symbols and see what chord they correspond to as you type (see the image above)
@hes That's a nice cheat sheet!
Thanks for the tips. I'm surprised how quickly the different symbols are setting in. I know other symbols very well. I was having trouble to start with as it seemed I was seeing some different symbols used and I wasn't sure if there was a standard for jazz. As already mentioned it seems this is just something to get used to. I wasn't sure if there was for example a difference between using the triangle and just the regular old C or Cmaj.
It is worth mentioning that there is no single universal convention -- so you kind of need to use a few. Even in "The Real Book", you find a variety of ways. There aren't many, but it is worth knowing that there isn't a single set of conventions everyone uses.
The triangle frequently shorthands for maj7 - the assumption is that major or minor chords in a jazz context (especially on lead sheets for standards) include the appropriate 7 unless otherwise specified (like a maj or min 6th chord, for example). You can also usually add extensions above the 7 to taste, so most lead sheets don’t spell them out. The guitar voicing shown includes the 9, probably because it’s relatively easy to finger and voice-leads well into whatever the next chord is.
Well that's just great. "x = whatever you like" doesn't work well for my slightly ASD brain.
So, at the risk of pushing your buttons, how would a lead sheet "specify" a c major? Would they use Cmaj? If the do it really, and I mean really really makes me wonder why the hell not just use standard naming so what you see is what you play. I mean if that was the case than an experienced guitarist will play the added flavour if they want. All the method used at present seems to achieve is ambiguity?
You’re almost never going to find a straight major triad written as accompaniment in a jazz context - certainly not in the tunes from the bebop period when these conventions originated. You might find a sixth chord, though, which doesn’t include a 7, hence my comment about including a 7 "unless otherwise specified." As for why these symbols are used instead of just writing things out in a "standard" way, efficiency is one explanation; it’s faster to write "C🔼" than it is to write "Cmaj7," especially if you need to write out lead sheets for two other horn players, a pianist, and a bassist before you can get to actually jamming on the tune.
It depends on the context. Jazz has a huge amount of flexibility and it is part of learning jazz to know when you see C (which with nothing after it means C major) when you can use Cmaj7 or Cmaj9 or Cmaj6 and when you should stick to just a simple C major triad. It isn't super hard to learn -- but it will take some time.
The triangle representing major 7th is easy to get used to - at least for me. It's not used any other way from what i've seen.
What took longer for me to get used to is the half-diminished symbol vs. full diminished, mainly because I was slow to learn the differences between the two types of chords, and the two symbols look similar except for the slash through the circle.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-diminished_seventh_chord
What I have seen the most frequently is just plain C to indicate C major triad.
Another example is the G major triad in Farmer's Trust by Pat Metheny. It is simply plain G - no 7, no 9, no extra anything. Also note the plain C and the plain D. If you look up this song on Youtube, you'll find Pat Metheny Group plays those plain triads as marked.
https://www.sheetmusicplus.com/title/farmer-s-trust-digital-sheet-music/19433861?d=sem_sidecar&popup=false&d=sem_sidecar&popup=false&country_code=USA&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&adpos=&scid=scplp19433861&sc_intid=19433861&d=sem_ggl_{campaign_id}_&gclid=Cj0KCQiAzsz-BRCCARIsANotFgOhb_KBJRQqtIEopSwyr24VubByK4vhbhjlKDKH2uYrrtqMRkAThNoaAopTEALw_wcB
Same here to a degree. It was mainly finding out that what it means is a flat minor 7 which is actually a 6. Strange stuff to me. So half dim is min 7 flat 5. Dim is flat min 7 (actually 6th) and flat 5. Correct?
The triangle as maj7 would easy to get used to if that was what everyone said it was. But some charts show it as C/\7 and others as C/\ .