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Just killed another iPad Pro... looks like usb-hub + power bankrolled it. What do I do?
I’m writing from my old iPad, I had a dead iPad Pro (2020) in November and the same thing just happened, it won’t charge.
Through tragedy I think I can pinpoint exactly the cause, since it’s happened exactly like last time. I was using a Satechi usb-c hub for headphones and a power bank plugged in. I’ve used that power bank with my old iPad Pro a million times, as well as with my phones. I’ve also used the usb hub a million times to plug my interface and/or headphones , all while charging.
So it seems like it’s the usb hub + power bank combo that (under whatever circumstances) kills the iPads battery or charging...
Does anyone know what might have happened?.
Back in November when the same thing happened they gave me a (this now dead) new iPad. They didn’t seem to find the cause, I guess they just replace them. This new one is still in the 6 month warranty period so I’m gonna go to Apple service.
Do I tell them what happened?. I’m thinking if taking the hub, but I’m afraid that might somehow invalidate the warranty. Then again I’ve done nothing wrong.... I can see how using a hub with a power bank might be “external”causes, sort of like dropping it in the toilet.
I’m so pissed off 🤬
Do I tell them? What might have happened?.
Here’s a pic of the hub and power bank (utterly useless, I know). I’m gonna throw these 2 away, for sure, but I can’t understand how they could “fry”an iPad!!.
Comments
Better to use Apple accessories, to be honest. I guess you’ll be rolling the dice no matter what happens, so just be nice and honest with the people at the Apple Store.
Well, they don‘t fry an iPad, but kill it‘s charging control IC, a part named Tristar.
This chip communicates with the safety logic in Apple certified charging cables.
If this communication fails (most common: fake or non-spec charging cables) then over-power may hit the Tristar, a tiny square about 1/20“ sides.
(I‘ve learned by purchase of a used Air, switched it on when picking up, all ok, at home it fails with any USB peripheral and shows no charging indicator)
I wish Apple would bring out a modern style CCK hub rather than having to use a 3rd party one ok they are cheaper but it puts warranty doubts in ones mind. If your spending 1K on a iPad you don’t want to smoke it.
get a clay tablet.
Play dumb. Be honest, but just don’t offer any information that they don’t specifically ask for. It is their problem to figure out what went wrong, and their decision whether to drill into the details or just to replace it.
As soon as you mention 3rd party things they will naturally jump to the conclusion that you fucked it up somehow. Sure, if they ask you what you had plugged in, you should be straightforward with them. They don’t specify anywhere that you shouldn’t do what you did, so leave it at that.
Besides, you do not know for a fact that was the cause. You’re not the expert.
Just walk in there and tell them it’s not working. You don’t even need to mention that you had the same problem before unless they ask. Leave the rest to them.
That’s good to know. From now on I will not charge the iPad through the hub unless absolutely necessary. I know it’s irrational but I always felt strange about discharging and charging the iPad at the same time, especially at times when there’s more going out than in.
Silly question, but have you tried cleaning out the charging port?
My iPhone has stopped charging before and after digging around with a plastic toothpick I managed to get some fluff out of the port and it’s charging normally again.
Worth a try.
Acknowledging what happened invalidates warranty?!
Well, Apple did not provide or offer a hub for sale when they rudely took out the headphone jack. No good solution for the missing headphone jack for years that would let us plug in headphones while charging the iPad! How is it our fault if we spend more money to buy and use an available 3rd party hub that may have caused issues? Had Apple offered an Apple hub and if we did not use that hub, that might invalidate warranty.
What else are we supposed to do and what does Apple expect us to do? Buy AirPods? Those don’t work well for music production.
Cheaper accessories (right from Lightning charging cable, adapters to hubs) have a history of causing heartache with Apple devices in the long run.
I had a HyperDrive before but due to its high volume and poor grip issues exchanged it for a HyperDrive Gen2 (this one has low volume issue, already reported to them) but haven’t noticed to cause any damage to iPad for charging.
Jeesus, I didn’t know that. A 2$ chip renders a 1000$ iPad useless. Here is a article of a repair shop about that.
https://www.discdepotdundee.co.uk/apple-tristar-u2-repair-and-cheap-lightning-cable-damage/
The one million dollar question is: which USB-C hubs are safe because the have got the right chips that communicate well with the iDevice‘s Tristar chip. As Apple only offers a USB-C to A dongle it is maybe more safe to use that in conjunction with a classic USB-A hub.
I do agree - except the "fault" is in purchasing such a device at all and thereby confirming that Apple did the right thing.
iPads are not really built for musicians from Apple's view. Thanks to a good number of excellent iOS app developers, music production is still great fun on the iPad (I don't own one without a headphone port and likely never will) but Apple has never stopped breaking things that worked very well, both in hardware and recently even more in software. See iOS 14.
Thank u all for your help and empathy in these times of pain.
I wanna point out that this is not a cheap hub, I was careful and picked a well known one with tons of comments.
Also I’m sure it has to do with the power bank. It’s the 2 together, usb hub and powerbank. I’ve used the hub for endless hours plugged to the wall socket.
@Telefunky so Tristar eh?. To me it sounds like terrible engineering. It’s not like I’m plugging a 120volts thing into a 220v current, this is a powerbank.
@wim you’re right, I’m gonna play dumb. I’m actually gonna call the home-pickup service to minimize the possibility of being blamed.
But the point here is: it happened once, it’s happened twice and I still don’t know how to avoid a third one. Had I plugged the same powerbank into an Apple official hub. Would it be the same?.
At Apple they told me it was unlikely that a usb hub could cause that and that I had been unlucky. So it’s really on them. If they had told me to buy one of the stupid Apple originals I would have. My usb hub is certified.
@rs2000
Yes, it sucks. Are you just gonna abandon iOS music when you iPad doesn’t keep up?.
I wish all devs moved to some Linux screen gadget, a raspberry on steroids or whatever. Even touchscreen windows. If Android could do proper audio. Options!. Like you say we’re bound to “apple’s view” and have no say because we have no options. Precisely what happened in communist countries vs capitalist ones. Apple=communism.
Btw I’m glad after the last time I got the stupid iCloud 200gb thing. I guess everything’s there, except for a really cool tune I was doing yesterday when it happened. Precisely the tune that was gonna make me rich. Damm you Apple and bloody Tristar!.
I’m gonna call Apple care, I’ll let you all know how it goes. You’re the best. Thanks! 🙌
Well, it's not that the older devices suddenly stop working and many apps still run on iOS 12 which many older devices can run.
But indeed I would consider switching to a Windows tablet with headphones port and maybe run bitwing on it.
That wouldn't cost me more than a comparable iPad Pro, a full bitwig license included.
Sure it wouldn't let me try every shiny new app anymore but it will definitely allow me to compose and design sounds.
Like with a vintage analog synth from the 70s, I wouldn't care about feature updates, I'd rather make sure the thing just keeps running!
. 😊
@rs2000 I had no idea 🤷🏻♂️
Been reading an article about it, it’s from 2016! https://www.musictech.net/tutorials/surface-pro-4-v-bitwig/
I’m gonna explore that route. I was frustrated by audio editing and clips in iOS so I was looking at the Maschine+. Now I have a new rabbit hole!. Do you know of a good source to find info on this?.
If this works well it even makes sense to get a Maschine mk3 and hook it up to a Surface!. It wouldn’t be that much more $.
You can get a Dell 7285 tablet with Intel 7Y57 processor for under $500 on ebay.
Here's a nice overview of what the workflow looks like:
@rs2000
Used have a Microsoft surface Pro 3 with Bitwig on. Just found windows software as regards touchscreen a pain compared to Apple. Without the keyboard it just was hard to get any workflow going as most desktop music software designed for a mouse and keyboard. Bitwig is the lead in Tablet control but still found it Clunky. Touchable Pro with Ableton works pretty well but I still found I was going back to the host half the time.
@Jumpercollins I know that if going the Win tablet route, it pretty much means being "stuck" with bitwig.
What did you find clunky? Maybe you can be so kind and elaborate a bit on your past experiences...
I had a surface pen was expecting it to be more usable. I found with the tablet on its own it took me 20 mins messing about just to sign in. Once in right click functions without a mouse were hard to achieve.
Just found the whole experience not enjoyable compared to a iPad.
Thanks! 👍🏼
So it's more about touch Windows than about bitwig?
Yer basically for me anyway. I personally think Windows based tablets are only tablet for for size. Inside the software still very much keyboard and mouse desktop based. Bitwig have done a reasonable job with Tablet mode but you still got to jump through menus to get things done. Where ios is totally touch oriented from the start. Went and got a MBP in the end as at least that had a keyboard and as I have a lot of desktop software. Horses for Courses.
Stimming, one of my favorite producers is using bitwig on a desktop PC with a touchscreen. Eg at 33:10
But I still believe that iPad is great.
What’s an MBP?
So you don’t recommend a touchscreen Windows machine?. I guess a big factor is also how good Bitwig actually is. iOS can be great as a touch interface but if the daws are not as “pro”... I insist on audio editing and mixing, only Auria is capable of a serious job, but if doesn’t seem like it’s evolving much.
There’s another route I’d like to ask about. Controllers like Maschine Mk3, Push, Launchpad... those coupled with a Windows touchscreen tablet sounds like a great combo. What do you think?. I absolutely want to stay away from a desktop. But a Windows tablet hooked to one of these controllers wouldn’t feel like a desktop at all, actually I’d look at the screen a lot less than with an iPad. A Maschine+ is 1100€. You could probably buy a used Maschine mk3 and a Windows tablet for that price and get more. Uhmmm GAS 3.0
@tahiche MBP = MacBook Pro. But since we are discussing acronyms... what is GAS?
The chip communicates with the cable? What if I connect my dongles, hubs, whatever through an official charging cable to my iPad? I mean no matter what I want to connect to my iPad, but the last item that is physically connected to the iPad is an official charging cable. Does it prevent such issues?
Also it would be much more elegant way to connect things to the iPad. To be honest I hate those bulky dongles hanging on a short cable 10centimeters far from the iPad. 🤮
Hahahaha.
Gear Acquisition Syndrome. I’m sure you got it too!!.
Man, I’ve jumped straight into the rabbit hole. I’m ipadless at the moment so I’m 100% into obsessing over gear and workflows.
I was just watching this video demonstrating Atom SQ controller with Studio One.
The Windows tablet thing really opens up the possibilities for hardware controllers. There’s nothing like it in iOS at the moment. Sure you can use a Launchpad or whatever, but that’s for one app, there’s nothing like a Maschine or Push workflow. So a Windows tablet could actually mean less screen and more fun knobs. And for the price of a standalone Maschine+ you get a full controller plus a powerful touchscreen computer. @JoyceRoadStudios was commenting on the touch not being very nice, and I’m sure that’s the case. The iPad is unbeatable in that aspect. But with a good controller?. That’s a game changer.
This is an interesting question.
But I can’t understand the Tristar shit. Seems like it breaks on purpose!. “I’m gonna punish you for not spending 60$ on an apple hanging dongle”. A bloody powerbank doesn’t give out enough power, it shouldn’t break anything. Btw I checked and can’t find an “official” powerbank. Does that mean you can’t use one?. It’s all “you can have problems if not using... it’s recommended to...”, there are no such issues on android?. I’ve never “burned” a phone using all sorts of powerbank and connectors. Argghgg.
Maybe your powerbank is defective or runs out of spec? iPads and iPhones have pretty refined (i.e. smart but sensitive) recharging that is designed to maximize both battery life and battery longevity (by not overcharging them which can easily happen).
Definitely my experience too.
I find that I use my MacBook Pro less and less for music now as I use iPads more. I definitely wouldn’t go back to Windows for music - it’s not a terrible platform, but there are better options.
My 2018 12.9 iPad Pro just died from a buggered USB-C jack, so no way to recharge, get data off etc, and then it proceeded to go into an infinite reboot loop!
I'm looking very seriously about replacing it with the M1 MacBook Air, and simply run LPX there, giving up the endless search for the right combos of Hosts and AUv3 etc. in iOS.
The method was introduced with the Lightning port and it spread fast that the connector contains a „chip“ to control USB communication.
The only supplier for this chip is Apple and every manufacturer of certified cables/peripherals has to buy it from Apple.
This circuitry detects any out of range power and immediately blocks the lines (or tells the Tristar to do). Beneath charging the Tristar also is a switchboard for internal USB connections to various sections of the iDevice (a fairly complex thing).
But the Tristar can be fooled by what looks like 2 transistors in fake cables and then it will pass any irregular voltage or die itself (complete or partly).
This may result in a wide range of failures, but it doesn‘t break just by connecting a fake cable.
Something on the powerline must go wrong/run beyond specs to make this happen.
One may question Apple‘s strategy, but it is a very reliable protection for the iDevice... and in my humble experience Apple‘s battery endurance is second to none.
There may also be an increase in security against USB attacks because the external device is (likely) registered with Apple.