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Comments
I’m sorry to ask, but I don’t understand the conclusions of this thread.
Is it “dangerous” to use 3. party cables for my iPad mini 5 /iPhone SE?
I use these:
https://titanpowerplus.com/products/titan-cable?variant=31456436748406
The built quality seems great - but can they harm the devices?
I also use their fast charging power plug...is this a bad idea?
https://titanpowerplus.com/products/titan-30w-pd-fast-charge-plug?variant=31402145087606
Thank You
I’m glad you asked. I HAVE NO IDEA.
I’m serious. I got the replacement iPad but they don’t tell what was wrong with it (this is the second time in 3 months).
It’s just educated guessing to point at the powerbank charger and usb-hub combination. Since it broke 2 times while using those.
I went to the Apple store right now but they wouldn’t let me in, they have some appointment thing, I’m gonna buy an original usb-c Apple thing just in case.
@Telefunky seems quite versed about Apple products. Maybe he can comment on how/if an official usb dongle would protect from a powerbank voltage surge?.
This is the Satechi hub I was using. Note it’s almost 60$.
Does it have the chip that protects from voltage jumps that @Telefunky mentioned?. I have no idea.
https://satechi.net/products/aluminum-type-c-mobile-pro-hub
The Satechi hub doesn‘t have that chip because then it would be advertized as MFI (made for iPhone/iPad. The chip is a custom item sold only by Apple to 3rd party manufacturers and it‘s not cheap... but (as a manufacturer) you „aquire“ a label to separate your product from most of the competitors.
The Satechi is targeted at the whole USB market and certainly a good product.
In general you don‘t need the „protection chip“ under regular conditions.
But if your local power supplier has a hickup in it‘s engines resulting in a big power spike, then the iDevice is (potentially) in danger. As it would be with most car chargers.
Powerbanks are very unpredictable for their huge range of variation in circuit design and cell quality. If connected to an iPad/iPhone by an Apple or MFI charging cable, there‘s no risk.
But if you connect it to a powered hub without such a cable between hub and iDevice a temporary power spike may fry the infamous Tristar chip.
(which isn‘t cool, but still better that random damage throught the circuit)
Thanks a lot for the detailed explanation.
Ok so the “danger” is in the powerbank and not using a mifi cable.
If I had plugged the powerbank into the sacheti using a mifi charging cable, I would have been safe?.
If I buy an apple original usb-c dongle. Does it contain the chip?. Would I be safe plugging a powerbank into that?.
If I understand correctly the most important bit here is the mifi charging cable. I’ll get an extra one. But I’d like to know if you recommend getting the official usb dongle, if it provides that protection.
Thank U so much!
They did. GarageBand Live Loops Grid.
...oh wait. You're one of the unconverted who inexplicably doesn't accept that all one needs to produce music is GarageBand.
...
it is surprisingly good though. It almost makes me wish I could otherwise stand working in GarageBand.
@Telefunky are you referring to lightning cables only? Can't seem find anything about the tristar with usb c.
Glad you got a replacement. I thought what would I do after building a semi beardytron around an ipad ( if ipad fails ) but thought. There could always be the standard future ipad maybe for £300 128gb. Cheaper used. Which would be ok for stuff I make at the mo.
Tahiche‘s damaged iPad Pro was a 2020 model, hence USB-C, as is the Satechi hub.
The Tristar is the first chip behind the input socket. There are several revisions, the last one is supposed to be more robust (and compatible with it‘s predecessors).
ps: must update my USB-C knowledge ...
Imho you‘re safe if your iPad is connected to the hub by an MFI certfied cable.
Then whatever happens on the hub side is shielded from the iPad.
btw... I received a hot-air soldering station a couple if days ago and now it‘s practicing aka frying old circuit boards... before attempting to replace the Tristar on my 2nd hand Air One. That stuff is challenging - one has to consider rather precise time limits during the process.
I don’t get this, There’s no cable between the iPad and the hub. By hub I mean the Sacheti (plugged straight into the iPad) or apple’s usb c adaptor. Am I safe with the adaptor?. I assume it has one of those chips...
Edit: just realized this doesn’t have a headphone jack. So annoying!. I need headphones and to avoid 🔥 the iPad. Simple yet so hard.
Yes, but that hub is a direct connect, with the USB-C plug mounted right on the hub. And most of the other USB-C hubs use typical short dongle leads. There are only a few that use a separate removable cable. So how about the OP's quoted question? Would an MFI cable from powerbank to hub be enough?
Incidentally, fast charge is implemented in USB-C PD using voltages higher than 5V. This is supposedly negotiated between the device and the charger connector. However, the powerbank looks like a 5V unit, so probably this did not come imto play here.
An MFI cable from powerbank doesn‘t include the USB data lines, as doesn‘t the adapter linked by @tahiche above.
I don‘t have any USB-C gear, so never checked what‘s offered in that segment.
If a hub (or cable) is MFI certified, then the iDevice is protected from over voltage.
If it fails, though ... then it‘s covered by warranty.
On a related note, I had a history of short-lived external hard drives attached to my laptop. I eventually bought a voltage regulator and found the power in my house was all over the place. Sometimes high, sometimes low. I haven't had any problems since installing it.
is this issue only with newer ipads with usb c plugins? makes me a little nervous to use a power pack with my ipad pro
i have one of these. is it safe?
@eross I’ve plugged all kinds of things into my older iPad Pro, with lighting port, and never had a problem. No problem in over 6 years with the lighting vs 3 dead iPad pros in a year with usb-c.
Might be that the lightning does less current and/or that I always used apple lightning cables to connect to the powerbank.
wow that is crazy. thanks for the info
There may in fact be a fundamental difference between Lightning and USB-C.
Regarding the Lightning protection I‘ve been a bit unprecise: Apple doesn‘t sell the chip(s) but the whole connector to 3rd parties (for about $4 per item) to which they attach their custom cable or gear.
Obviously there is no such thing for USB-C, which either means the circuitry is moved from the plug to whatever device Apple or the 3rd party makes... or just left out because later revisions of the Tristar USB/charging controller are supposed to be more robust than previous versions.
The latter would perfectly explain why @tahiche ‘s iPads were replaced under warranty with no questions asked. Just my humble guesses...
Went to an Apple retailer shop yesterday. Set to buy a cable, usb hub and/or powerbank. Whatever they recommended. Left there empty handed.
They discarded the Satechi usb hub as the source of the problem. They sold the Satechi in the store, quality product... that was a relief because the lack of a jack input in the official Apple usb-c dongle is plain inexcusable. It’s a “f&&$k you” to musicians.
So it seems down to the powerbank and/or charging cable. I’m confused about @Telefunky ’s last post. Now I don’t know if usb-c cables have that chip or not. Anyway I was going to buy (another ) 25€ Usb-c apple charging cable plus a powerbank. Simple right?. Not yet. The power banks they had deliver on a usb-A port. So you can’t connect the Apple charging cable, since it’s usb-c on both ends. There’s no such thing as an official usb-c to usb-a cable, it doesn’t exist.
The guy at the shop did mention that a lower voltage Powerbank (say 5V) is more dangerous than a higher one (30 V). This was commented in this thread before. But I see nothing “official” no especifications or red warnings.
I have an appointment at the Apple store in a few hours. Curious to see what I get out of it. One thing I do know, this situation is plain stupid. If I ever had a shred of doubt or any feeling of guilt about having done something wrong, it’s long gone. I’ll let you know.
As a customer you really should never be concerned with the almost 400 pages describing the USB-C standard.
https://www.usb.org/sites/default/files/USB Type-C Spec R2.0 - August 2019.pdf
I only had a short peek and while USB-C allows custom circuitry inside the plugs, I doubt it‘s the case with Apple‘s cables (never saw a hint in this direction).
All is handled by software via the configuration channel line.
Lightning is different: a custom solution designed by Apple for Apple peripherals only.
With USB-C they show some intention to comply to a general standard (stating the obvious), but obviously haven‘t got all and every case covered yet.
ps: sorry if some of my comments have been confusing.
Sorry?. Never!. You’ve been extremely helpful and really nice in these times of sorrow ☹️
Big question, worth 25€...
There’s no chip on these usb-c cables, right?. That means the cable is not a vital factor and had nothing to do with my catastrophe?.
Yes, that‘s a safe assumption. I didn‘t find any mention of a custom circuit like in Lightning.
It‘s just confusing because desaster strikes at the same location within the iPad.
(which on the other hand is expectable as the Tristar is part of the basic design and kind of an electronic front door)
Just get a simple USB audio device and connect it to the dongle or USB hub. I have got this one. It has very good reviews regarding audio quality. Up to 96 khz.
https://en.sharkoon.com/product/27415
https://en.sharkoon.com/ImgSrv/1000/1000/Gaming_DAC_Pro_S/gallery/Gaming/Head_Z/Gaming_DAC_Pro_S/Gaming_DAC_Pro_S_01.jpg
If the USB-C dongle has got an audio jack it means it also has an audio device inside but often they are of poor quality, so better choose it yourself.
It’s probably not in the specs but I think many USB-C cables have got a chip.
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0485/3766/5699/products/image_2026.jpg?v=1603187050
https://satechi.net/blogs/news/identifying-usb-c-e-mark-cables
https://www.renesas.com/kr/en/support/engineer-school/usb-power-delivery-03-emarker-c-auth
Better fry your cable than your iPad’s Tristar 😜
Very interesting @krassmann !
I went to the apple store and talked to 2 different salesperson. It seems like they didn’t have a clue.
So they do have a chip!. That e marker thingy... They told me the opposite at the store and I almost fell for a 140€ powerbank, but with a regular cable... Id rather keep looking for a decent powerbank AND a proper cable like these you point to.
Regarding the USB audio device... This is like a little sound card?. What about Apple’s little usb-c to jack. Is that a little audio interface too?.
Yes, they all include a DAC to convert the digital data to analog, and an audio amp to drive the phones. The difference is just in the quality of the parts. You can pay $300 for a "USB DAC", which is what @krassmann showed.
Edit: I could be wrong about the Apple headphone adapter. USB-C allows and audio-only, or audio+power adapter to redefine some leads as an audio connection. Hard to say if Apple implements this in the iPad, or just uses an audio interface in the adapter.
I forgot to mention a guy at the shop mentioned Power Delivery. But he mentioned it about powerbank when aoccording to @krassmann links it’s for cables.
Right. So I need one 😬
What about this one?. It’s got a power charge port so I could use this and charge it at once.
https://en.sharkoon.com/product/28283#gallery
