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IAA Apps are fine.
I've noticed lately that many ppl on this forum are very on hype about only wanting apps that are AU-format. IAA being a "legacy" format is only a problem if\when our host apps stop supporting it and I don't think AUM/AB are planning on dropping it anytime soon. I mean, you can still use AB1-only apps just fine and that was never even an official Apple format!
I understand a UX-annoyance that ppl don't like having to context-switch to another window and I get not liking having to double-click the home button to get back to host for those apps that don't provide an onscreen button to do so. (Hell, now I just wish I had a home-button! The only physical button on my new iPad air turns the screen off. Stupid design choices by those folks in Cupertino.) But as long as there is an onscreen button to jump-back to the host like in, say, Roxsyn or Tonebridge, I don't understand what would be gained by it being rewritten as an AU. I could see it being useful to have multiple VSTs AU windows on the screen at once, but practically, given the size of an iPad screen, unless you are on an iPad Pro, odds are you'll only get two windows on screen at the same time. For many apps like Tonebridge or Roxsyn, the AU window would need to be full screen in order to show the entire UI. I mean, with some ported AU apps, like Turnado, the screen gets cut off and it can't render the entire thing at once which is annoying when using its 4-pad performance interface because you just can't reach the bottom of the lower pads so I prefer it not to be an AU.
Point being: If you want to have multiple instances of the same app running, that is a point I'd fully concede as it is something [mostly] unique to AU, but I'm ranting here on behalf of all the fine app/developers of FX and synths > 2?yrs old to express to ppl that all because the effect/instrument shows up under "IAA" instead of "AU", doesn't make much of a difference and shouldn't prevent you from buying an app because of a fear of it becoming a legacy/unusable product.
Comments
This was my take on it a few years ago: https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/23242/water-will-flow-my-thoughts-on-au/p1
So what about state-saving, problems opening ‘some’ iaa apps (Blocs) in AUM?
I am using Launchpad app more and more... but will love to see it as AU... Multi out, etc.
I won’t mind paying for the AU upgrade of these great apps..
Do you really need to understand something to accept that different perspectives exist?
@boberto I have IAA apps Korg synths and Animoog and a few IAA effects. My IAA effects get very little use. I have found that they provide more trouble then they are worth unless I just want to create and record a particular sound and then move on. I use the synths for sound sources mainly and then discard after use. As much as AUv3s might create their own limitations as FX inserts they are pretty unbeatable. They save their state inside a project I am working on and they are capable of multiple instances. This is just convenience and value for money in my work flow. I think @gusgranite stated it succinctly in his post. There is still room for both, but ease of use in workflow is a major benefit regarding AUv3 in most situations.
Hm, actually no. They are a real hassle for me to use. Setting it up so that it syncs the midi clocks etc., lot's of stuff that is really easy with AUs I have to take care of manually. No question that they work just fine, but they don't fit into my workflow at all. I basically use all IAA apps that I have standalone.
That's not what is being discussed.
Just imagine SamplR never existed and is announced next week and all the „no AU, passed“ comments
I think that‘s the point of @boberto ‘s post.
Same
My only issue with IAA apps I use is that they require a tap to start them in Audiobus as they don’t open when first started but they do lock in when loading consecutive sessions so I guess it’s only a first world problem.
It's great that AU exists, but I 100% agree that the hype for everything to be AU is a poisoned chalice. The performance tools that have stuck with me over the years (through a whooooole lot of trial and error):
Samplr
Animoog
Sector
Koala
These are augmented by a few AU's, for example limiter on a line input, a reverb effect on a send, Koala FX on a mic input.
Full screen apps are a the best performance experience that the platform can offer. There's nothing like jamming out on Samplr or Animoog's amazing touch keyboard. The newer Koala is an incredible addition -- bringing it over Samplr in slide over mode to grab and cut audio then directly loading the sample into Samplr (maybe even resampling it back into Koala in line) without breaking your musical flow or leaving your full screen experience is UNREAL. It'll never be replaced by the GUI navigating experience of AU.
Most time tested IAA apps are also rock solid and give me a lot less trouble than most AUs. I'm not looking for just another desktop DAW but worse -- I want to make use of the uniquely expressive touchscreen as a performance instrument, and while AU is great for some things which I am very glad for, it's simply not the tool for that job.
Bebot
Great topic.
I've started buying app last autumn and at first I was totally obsessed with AUv3. No AUv3, pass. But now I'm slowly drifting in that gold IAA pantheon of Samplr/Borderlands/Elastic/Korgs and they are really good. And there's somthing about opening an app on fullscreen. Like it's an self contained instrument. As long as it could be hosted in AUM.
But a totally no-no for IAA effects.
And no state saving is a real hussle.
IAAs work fine for most of the time with a bit of preparation...
...like remembering to enable background audio and launching them apps before making any inter-app connections.
Most 'fails' happen when an app one tries to connect to doesn't launch properly (it may launch but produces no audio) or trying to connect to an app that is in the background with background audio disabled.
It's a bit like with virtual midi where the host tries to connect to a port that is not available yet since the app has not finished starting up.
Slide Over mode is something I wish more apps would support...
Works very well as IAA. Just wish it had support for 'slide over mode'
I actually thought the references to Bebot on this forum were an inside joke. But now I watched this video by Jordan Rudess (from 2009!) and I am buying it. Thanks!
And yes, I like full screen apps, for instance I prefer Ruismaker in IAA, even though I use Rozeta Rythm+Ruismaker multiout more.
I have a 2020 12.9 Pro and if I’m ever using IAA apps it’s standalone. They completely suck for workflow. As @Samu stated they have to be pre-prepared ahead of time, otherwise they often crash or don’t work properly. Why would I want to be working on a project in AUM and then realize I can’t load a certain IAA because it wasn’t prepared or the fragility could screw everything up?
There are great and rock solid IAA apps, this is true. I also agree that calling them depreciated is misguided. Shaming devs into changing their apps AUv3 is not always the best result anyway. And as we know there are so many buggy Auv3 apps. But I’ve gotten into iOS only in the last few years, and there are so many apps and choices available. I don’t see any reason to ever buy IAA over AUv3, with the exception of a few great ones I already own. I love the fact that I can take an instance of a certain guitar app and put pedals before another app, and then another instance of pedals after that app. Multiple windows on one screen. Too many advantages to AUv3 to list really, with the exception that some great apps are still IAA only.
The main issue for me is that older apps are old, and there’s a danger that they will be abandonware or will break with any new update. The depreciation argument has to do with fresh apps being fresh and inline with new updates, and old apps (unless they’re heavily maintained) being left in the dust. I have no time for shitty apps and shitty workflows, regardless of their format. IAA is the bigger headache. Auv3 can also be a headache if the auv3 version has its balls cut off compared to the standalone. But an app maintains its magic and functionality as an AUv3 is the choice for me.
You win!
I mean I do, some of them are really great to use on their own. I love Koala for example and Groovebox is also a good example. I actually don't need those as AU because to me, they are closed eco systems anyway.
If I want to make something in Groovebox, then I load it up, create something and if I really want to add to that I can always export the stems, but I hardly do. The limitation is what makes it so great, because it enables me to just start creating something instead of fuzzing about the best effect I would use.
But I wouldn't put up with the hassle to include them in a workflow with other apps. It's usually not worth the hassle for me. And if a new app comes out that doesn't have IAA, it needs a clear selling point why it's a standalone ecosystem worth investing for me (like Koala clearly has, or Flip for that matter). Needs to be clear for me that this is something that I would use on it's own, then I don't care if it has AU or not.
Yes I agree, it’s a different decision in the context of workflow or a recording project. I also think it’s misguided to call IAA depreciated. My opinion is colored because I’ve only been frustrated with IAA, and some of that is user error. But I’ve had great times in standalone apps often.
The most common way in which forum members work and create makes AUv3 more valuable.
BeBot is BeBot. It makes me 'happy' when I use it...
...it's super expressive and fun to play.
Pair it up with a bunch of crazy effects and hours will pass like minutes!
The website is still up but I've not gotten any replies from the dev...
http://www.normalware.com
I just checked the website. I wonder if that t-shirt comes in yellow? Argh..the shirt link is dead!
Deprecated means that bugs in IAA (such as those caused by OS updates) won't get fixed by Apple. So I think at this point if you're buying an IAA app you might want to take in mind that it might just stop working in a year's time. Buyer beware and all that.
As for whether IAA apps are okay? I mostly don't use the ones I have just because workflow means AU3 apps are more handy. The only ones I still use are those for which there are not an AU3 alternative. Obviously everyone's different, but I don't think I'm alone in this. Workarounds kill my creative flow. shrug.
ΙΑΑ
no state saving (unless implementing audiobus state saving) , only one instance
AUs
No fullscreen , floating windows ,wrong concept (for me) on a small touchscreen
I disappeared from the board for a few years while I was getting on with making music and gigging using the same old IAA apps in AB, so maybe I missed the golden age of AU productivity, but I've certainly seen a lot more energy, creativity, incredible performance chops and musical output come from IAA. If I search for iOS music jamming videos on youtube then all the top results and almost anything of seriously high performance quality has a full screen app in the preview image (and throughout the video). The aesthetic and musical flow is just perfect. Full screen hosted in AudioBus with potential for slide over file management or background processing (Koala is king here) is by far the most fluid multi-app workflow on the platform. We can even app-switch by MIDI thanks to AudioBus, which was a holy grail for best part of a decade. We're all posting on the AudioBus forum, yeah?!
For the most part, if you see AU's then it's just someone tweaking settings or scrolling presets for 45 minutes, or jamming on a MIDI controller or guitar through an app that they're not interacting with much. 95% of the time though its a full screen app that's 5-10 years old, or Koala, and it'll take your breath away in beauty, execution and pure sound. Shout out to @supadom, the Loopy/Samplr king. What a flow!
Oh yeah -- how could we forget FIGURE!!??! PATTERNING?!! MODSTEP?? (and I never even got into the Korg world myself). Many more lurking too like Photophore, Xynthesizr, Borderlands, Navichord, Fugue Machine (which I love as IAA but never had much fun with somehow as AU, even though the execution is flawless). THUMBJAM??!!!???!!!
iOS music has become somewhat gentrified and moved closer to a desktop workflow, but what has that really changed? The only real effect is to break out the level of pro workflow and quality that's been possible in Auria Pro (since long before AU existed) to outside Auria Pro. That's cool and all, but it's not better or worse, just different.
It's really great that AU has really developed. Multiple instances is necessary and it stabilises patches to lean more heavily on AU effects. I love MIDI processing in particular (I'll be buying no more MIDI AU apps ever, thanks to Mozaic!!). I love that you can produce with a desktop flow on so many different apps -- it's all wonderful.
That’s pretty much my reason for focusing on AUv3 - I still use a few good IAA apps, but I’m shifting away from them as I don’t want a future struggle to keep them working (and potentially a point where I can’t update iPadOS because it will stop my IAA apps from working).
For this reason, as soon as Koala's development passes the threshold of stability that I need (everything else is already there -- Koala is the late arrival) I'm going to be forgetting all networks and freezing the device in a 'gig ready' state permanently, or at least until the full screen flow successor to IAA arrives. Losing iOS as a viable real time performance interface would be tragic.
FUNK BOX!!!!!!
I don't really agree with this. The main effect I've seen is to make a new kind of modular workflow (mainly in AUM, but also to a lesser degree in Drambo and apeMatrix) possible. Nothing like that really exists on desktop, and it didn't exist previously on IOS either.
I agree that full screen AU3 should be a thing, and that legacy IAA apps are often great. But IAA always felt like a workaround, and AU3 for all it's flaws mostly seems better.
I use many of my favorite AUv3 apps plenty of times in standalone. In fact, I will often set up an app to be gig ready in its standalone format. So I will agree with you there on your point in terms of performing vs scrolling/testing. I will always get to know an app and learn it in standalone.
But once I’m AUM or in Daw working with multi tracking or a complex project, AUv3 has too many advantages to list.