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I'd add that the app that has driven AU3 development more than any other on IOS (to the point that it seems to be the standard developers use for testing purposes) is AUM, which is not a DAW.
Deprecated in Apple's terminology doesn't mean it won't get bug fixes. It means don't develop new software with it. So, if you want to develop an app that needs a fullscreen standalone setting that can still talk to other apps, use Audiobus.
Personally, I think the AUv3 setting is too restrictive for creative multi-touch interactive music apps -- and that's the entire point of iOS to me.
It’s pretty cool that we now have several ways to get music done (AU, IAA, Audiobus, copy&paste, Bluetooth...) it’s like my kitchen: microwave, crockpot, toaster, stove, or raw(not good for fish).
I don’t prefer one over the other, I like them all because I remember a day when there was no way to connect anything.
But I also like mixing Ovaltine into Orange Juice and Garlic into my Coffee, so maybe it’s just me.
I used to gig with something like 15+ IAA apps in AB2, stable at low latency (0 live crashes over dosens of gigs in that era) and perfectly synched using AudioBus Remote as an assist (back then it was rock solid, but sadly hasn't been for a number of years). On the second AB:R device, I'd have another ~10 IAA aps in AB2 processing audio in the background, passing audio and MIDI back and forth via an iCA4+ device.
The modular software environment you described is exactly what we had going on back then and 1000x more. It's always been all about AudioBus.
These days, I run 6-7 apps on a more modern device at the same latency inc. 3ish IAA and a few AU MIDI helpers and audio processors. Through the whole development, I've consistently pushed and tested the possibility of what we have available on an almost daily basis.
I'd argue that the curve we're on has taken us a long way backwards (in terms of modular flow) today from where we were in 2016. It used to feel like patching a modular synth in a software environment, with all the weird/wonderful worlds of interacting possibility and unique interactional states that you can achieve. Now it feels like loading up a DAW and throwing a few plugins onto the channels. My iPad is basically an MPC brain and FX send processor host for my analogue desk now, with a nice touch interface to play samples on (Samplr) being the real killer feature.
I just don’t buy apps that aren’t audio units anymore, I don’t even use the non au ones I already have anymore (well once in a blue moon ) My workflow just doesn’t call for them at all. There are and I have so many apps that are audio units that I don’t miss IAA apps at all. The one I would like to see become an AU is Nave. I was hoping Thor would become one but that’s never gonna happen now.
The only non AU app I’d buy is if Korg came out with Triton for IPad and only if it could be opened in Gadget. IAA is in the rear view window for me, I have zero interest in them🤷🏽♂️
It means that too - but from a product development perspective it means that they're not going to actively remove it, but IAA is no longer a consideration for their dev team. Which not only means they won't fix bugs, but if IAA causes bugs/problems elsewhere they won't hesitate to remove it.
I guess this hasn't been my experience. Back in the day I certainly aimed for that modular experience, but it never worked brilliantly and always took ages to setup. And I was always running into syncing issues, or something. These days stuff just works, unless I bring IAA into the mix.
I think the performance stuff is probably more due to developers pushing DSP more. Analog sounding stuff in particular is very expensive computationally.
As long as Animoog is IAA only, I will continue to use IAA. When you record to audio it hardly matters anyway
You are mistaken in this assumption that deprecation means no more big fixes. Some deprecated families of calls remain supported and get bug fixes for years (in some cases over a decade) after deprecation (while some do slowly die from neglect).
There is no single predictable path for deprecated calls...tons depends on the rate at which the replacing technology is adopted...and (unpredictably) the whims of whoever makes decisions about resource allocation.
I speak from the experience of having worked on a couple of apps that used deprecated system calls that were so widely used that Apple maintained them for something like 12 years. And maintaining meant fixing bugs introduced by OS changes. We knew that support was ending when (after something like 10 years) a bug got introduced in a new OS version and they ignored the bug reports. Some deprecated APIs die fast. Some not so fast.
So, it is hard to know what the deprecation of IAA will mean in terms of bugs being introduced or not fixed. They had enough interest in the already deprecated IAA that they fixed a number of IAA bugs introduced at the end of iOS 12 in the first iOS 13 update.
Not be overlooked is that the officially supported technology (AUv3) has so far fared worse in iOS 14 than IAA.
That was a long way of saying: IAA may suddenly become buggy and totally neglected but that is not a given. They may keep it running well for years.
I think @OscarSouth has highlighted two different requirements here on iOS. His focus is on actual performance. I can see how the all in one standalone apps are better designed for this (unless using a controller maybe?).
My workflow is currently not performance based. It is production, arrangement, resampling, mixing, etc. IAA failings are a pain in the backside in my workflow but I will begrudgingly use them for stellar apps like Quantum and Koala.
So as a developer I guess the decision comes down to standalone performance instrument or plugin to be used in another host. Thankfully we also have some amazing developers like @brambos and @jimpavloff who usually end up providing both.
People are certainly entitled to prefer working with AUv3 apps. And there is no question that IAA from a developer's viewpoint has a lot of failings.
That being said, a lot of users who prefer AUv3 (primarily for the convenience) go over the top in exaggerating the woes of IAA. If you prefer AUv3 only: GREAT! Stick to AUv3.
But all this talk about IAA apps being unstable as if there aren't IAA apps that are heroes of stability (and AUv3 that are clunkers). In fact, there are plenty of IAA apps that crash very infrequently. Lack of state-saving is a pretty minor inconvenience for those non-AUv3 apps that offer something for which there isn't an AU equivalent.
Some IAA apps -- and this is true whether you are a performer or doing "studio" work -- are of a quality that it is worth the small annoyances.
Again, perfectly reasonable if someone prefers not to use IAA apps -- but there are some that are amazing apps for which there isn't an AUv3 equivalent.
Not mentioned enough is that if IAA really does go away without Apple introducing some other host-to-host communication method, it will be a real loss. There are plenty of apps that make more sense as hosts than guests -- and it would be a real loss for those apps to no longer be able to communicate.
One thing I have always wanted to know is if developers can see statistics on whether their app is being used as an IAA vs AU. That would be really interesting.
Oh it's absolutely always taken ages to set up, loads of sync issues, work arounds and instabilities
I would relentlessly experiment and test until I found interesting combinations that worked well, them combine the combinations until I found stable states that I could rely on. I wouldn't say it was a streamlined process by any means, but it did feel incredibly creative and rewarding.
Definitely, but I also find there's also much less possibility for extended complexity in general, even when using the same old apps. Feels like the greater complexity of hosts themselves and the OS has taken a toll there. This comes in a largely positive trade off for more depth of control and interaction -- for example I've never been able to push AB3 anywhere near as far as AB2 (not even 50%, using the exact same apps!) but MIDI processing, MIDI/IAA synch centre, the mixer, control of AU params and the ability to control everything in AB with MIDI mappings opens up whole new worlds of expression and depth in practice, so complex webs of apps are less necessary.
Nitpicking here because I know we're largely in agreement, but AudioBus hosted IAA apps have had a flawless state saving implementation since loooooong before AU existed.
True. But that only applies to apps that implement Audiobus -- and sadly some great IAA apps don't. I didn't want to overwhelm the reader with the various permutations -- since I think that even in the worst case (no state-saving at all), the inconvenience is pretty minor -- and probably involves no more than a handful of extra seconds in many cases.
Quick note that I said IAA where I meant AU (the last one) and you quoted it before I got in with the edit. See my post above for correct version!
I've been enjoying an IAA revival lately, rediscovering the joys of my old favorites like Animoog, Thor, Patterning, Samplr. It feels a bit like coming home. They are at least as good and possibly better in many ways than many that have come after. I've always preferred full-screen interfaces anyway to trying to move windows around. Audiobus combined with AUM may be the best of both worlds! One thing is for sure, though...AUv3 is SO much better for working with multiple effects in my experience. Therefore, I'm going to just make myself comfortable atop this fence and enjoy the lovely view in both directions.
Yeah, for the most part the apps without IAA state saving (for example Modstep or Patterning) make more sense without it, as they have their own state saving management systems implemented inside the full screen app. Others such as Samplr which state-save flawlessly are more logical to tie the load-state of the app to the AudioBus preset itself.
Personally,I do not care to invest time and money in app (and IAP) that could stop working at anytime. Yes dev can abandon AU as much as IAA but less likely. In IAA case the cutoff could come from Apple, the DAW dev or the app dev.
For me, there are IAA apps important enough to me that I'll freeze my current iPad to use them and get another for non-IAA.
I am just thankful for all these great apps ! And I understand that people have different workflows and needs, but at the end of the day I’m thankful to have access to enjoy music on the iPad . Have a great day Audiobus Fam 😀
At what point you joined the game makes a big difference in this debate. I joined the game in 2017. AU was very popular at that point. As soon as I understood the difference I stopped buying IAA. For reference I am not a jammer, I don’t use AUM.
Connectivity is my main concern. IAA and AU both deliver.
Cutting to the chase, I want to use Samplr and Koala in tandem for as long as I continue playing music. I could live without Animoog if I had to but I’d never forget it.
Coriander is fine.
🤭
This was partly my point too. I only started with iOS music in 2019/2020 so I had no investment in important IAA apps. As a guitarist, I completely skipped over Bias, Amplitube, Tonestack etc... and it wasn’t even about Nembrini or TH-U being AUv3, it’s that they sounded way better. It actually bugs me that some AUv3 apps lose certain functions compared to their standalone versions. And some AUv3 apps are so cpu hungry it doesn’t even make sense for them to be AUv3. But I just don’t like exiting out of my project where I need the visual at all times (metering etc..) to mess with an IAA. And the few I’ve used crash non stop. So my experience is biased. I really like using apps standalone too so it’s not either/or for me in this discussion.
Only if ground that way.
Edited to say that I, thankfully, don't taste soap when using IAA.
I don’t mind IAA. I usually end up dedicating an old iPad to just the app tho in a live setting and send a midi clock to it. These also work wonders for ipads with no home button:
(One mapped to command, the other mapped to tab)