Loopy Pro: Create music, your way.
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Comments
+100000000. PLEEEAAASE.
I’ll put in a few opinions:
Yea would pay 200$ for an iOS DAW, if it’s as powerful as the desktop counterpart. Currently that doesn’t exist. If they bring FULL Logic maybe.
Is the market sustainable? No, too small, too fragmented. On the other hand, it’s not really different on Desktop is it? You can get 5$ synths that are great as well
Paying 200$ desktop vs 5$ iOS: That’s the thing, I don’t buy anything on desktop, so it’s not really a decision I make. Most people also wait for 50% plus sales on desktop nowadays.
Not really the original question, but I think a dev’s motivations have to be taken into account. I know devs that just like making stuff for the challenge or fun of it, like a hobby. Should they be paid more for the apps they make - the good ones, yes. But the higher the prices, the more discerning customers will be. I think there’s a reason why there’s loads of simple apps around the £5-10 mark. If a dev gets satisfaction from making something cool, and gets a small amount of compensation for it, some devs are probably ok with that. Well, until they get hounded with problems and features requests but that’s kinda the reality of being a developer. Increase the price as it gets better.
I’m not even sure one-man indie devs should bother taking on a ‘daw’. Surely Matt didn’t take on making ns2 as a financial strategy? If he did he needs a business coach! Is it fair he gets berated about missing features etc. No. But it was him who said audio tracks were coming. He’s clearly a perfectionist and completist which is great but it seems like a lot of self flagellation to me. It’s not up to me at all, but making obsidian, slate etc as standalone au’s would have probably led to things getting finished.
None of my business off course and ns2 is a work of art. I’m just not sure he was planning to retire on it.
I’m certain we’ll see more expensive and more fully featured daws on the platform one day, and yes, I’ll pay £100+ for them. There will be a tipping point when ableton or logic etc makes producers take the platform more seriously after which a £5-10 app will reach a bigger audience and be a lot more profitable, especially if you can use it on Mac. The good apps anyway.
I have serious doubts about the benefits and overall impact of a Logic for iOS.
iOS music should be modular. Pick and choose specific apps for specific tasks, build your own system and workflow. It’s hard enough as it is, but there’s been good steps in that direction. AUM with Lk, now Atom2 and the upcoming Loopy Pro. There’s still a lot to be done, but it’s evolving. I’m afraid something like Logic for iOS would just kill that. Not only that, from a dominant position they’d probably make their own standards. Devs will have to work with Apple AND Logic’s constrains. Do you think Logic would be worried about providing Audiobus integration?. Or making sure you could record the output into Aum?.
Many of the biggest flaws with current DAWs come from the lack of integration with other systems. No Multiout instruments, no side chain, no integration with audiobus, no sync, no automation of external auv3 plugins... In the current state at least there’s some “pressure” for things to go in the right direction. Atom2 is great, so if a DAW doesn’t work with Atom2 you request the DAW to support it. Because it should!. Because Atom2 is doing things the right way and according to a logical modular standard, as will Loopy, LK and so on. So now Drambo and Atom2 are working on fixing that integration, and hopefully it all becomes some sort of standard.... let’s be frank, Logic wouldn’t give a shit about Atom2 or modular hippy crap.
iOS music would become a Logic plugin shop.
I don’t think iOS developers are starving. If they were there would be no more music apps on the AppStore and from what I see apps come out all the time and they have been doing so for nearly 20 years.
Pricing in the free market generally regulates itself just like wildlife in a jungle. Of course you’ll have currency fluctuations and other factors influencing it but as a whole it’s a reasonably self regulating ecosystem.
One important factor when comparing desktop with iOS computing is piracy, or lack of on iOS which must account for something.
To those who worry about prices being too low I say: don’t worry, the effects of the global pandemic will soon bring price rises everywhere. With all the cash being printed to prop the economies everywhere that’s like money in the bank (or lack of).
@supadom i wouldn’t call the AppStore “free market”.
Apple and Communism in the same title.
The sequels of the marijuana legalization in Murrica
Why not?
And dog farts, in case the sarcasm isn’t clear 🙃
Lot's of restrictions what you can and can't do. You can't even freely set your prices, at best it's a "highly regulated market". Seems to work better then the very free Android market though.
Because it’s pretty much the opposite.
A single manufacturer, a device monopoly.
A company with the absolute power to decide what is sold or not (app approval) and how it’s made.
You can’t sell your product anywhere else Epic Games v. Apple
Yes, but within the context of the conversation about app pricing are you saying that music app prices are low because of the restrictions you mention?
Yeah, there would probably be downsides. I love the modular approach too but it’s not for everyone.
I’d love it if Ableton got there first! I’ve never even used Live but it would just bring so many people to iOS and they’d hopefully be more likely to be sensitive to the ecosystem they’re joining.
Didn’t Apple invent the Audio Unit standard? And we’re on version 3? So who knows what version 4 will bring. I’m sure you’re right that logic would mess a load of stuff up but I do like the idea of the platform being more viable financially for devs. Plus the fact that audio units can be used on macs now must make a difference to how many units can be sold? I’m fairly ignorant on this stuff to be honest, but change is inevitable.
I’ve said it before - we’ll be looking back on this at some point as the ‘golden age’ of iOS music making 😜
Ditto this. But I can see how companies like Ableton might be a bit reluctant to invest a lot in iOS.
No one keeps 30% of their sales right now, that’s a difficult starting point from a business perspective if the development involves a lot of work and investment. Maybe when it’s all unified under M1 chips or whatever it is... you develop for Macs and release iOS as an extra.
TBF, simply getting old usually does that to people by itself, no need for actual changes.
Good point, I always forget about the Apple tax. I wonder if you can get Live through the App Store on macOS
I think the iOS Apps creative peak has been already surpassed since a year or so. I'm also getting old btw
Thank you for making my case so beautifully. Appreciate it
Apple 🚫 Communism
1. Apple’s guiding strategy is a proprietary one versus a commodity one like Android.
2. They market higher priced products to an inherently smaller market rather than vice versa.
3. The App Store is a product Apple sells to both developers and users.
4. Other companies can compete with the App Store (e.g. Android’s Google Play)
5. A proprietary strategy is a way to compete in a capitalist system.
6. Apple hasn’t shared any profits with me despite buying many apps and hardware.
7. Apple has shareholders who have invested capital in the company.
8. People who believe Apple is communist understand neither Marx, capitalism, nor Apple.
You don't really own the apps you buy, in the sense that you cannot resell them.
Communism. No wait...
So anybody who rents an apartment or a house has a communist landlord?
Am I out of touch with the modern concept of communism?
Communism = anything short of meeting all my expectations
Or is universal entitlement to everything I want right now the fulfillment of capitalism?
No👎🏼, all of my future needs must be met yesterday or at the very least right now.
You missed the edit.
Ah, well just in case anybody might be harboring such thoughts . . .
It would seem the only solution to expectations which are infinitely expanding would be reigning those expectations in or be prepared to be continually disappointed.
Which team are you on?
If you’re colorblind this graphic may be meaningless as will much of what I’ve said in this thread.
The same may be said for those who aren’t.
I have an issue that in a way exemplifies the peculiarities and (f###d up) challenges of iOS music development.
I bought Nembrini DC30 for about 10€. It doesn’t work with Zenbeats, It comes out as mono panned to one side. I’ve been robbed!, I’m outraged!.
I ask in the Zenbeats forum, Facebook group, I even contacted Nembrini...
Could it be that NO ONE ELSE is using this combo of DAW (ZB) and auv3 (DC30)?. It could very well be the case!. In my bubble it’s the most common, obvious scenario and I need it fixed ASAP. In the real world of the iOS music market I’m less than an anecdote. Is it even worth it for devs to spend time on this?.
If the problem came up while using desktop LogicX it’d have been fixed within hours. It’s the numbers.
TinyPrices * TinyUserBase = StopWining
Did @NembriniAudio respond to you? They usually a very responsive company that fixes problems.
I don’t think it’s a Nembrini problem, but rather a Zenbeats problem.
Probably, but I only meant is as an example.
A small market, with tiny profit margins and thousands of combinations and things that can go wrong.
If it was about numbers, market and business models, we wouldn’t have iOS music. We have iOS music cos some dev is probably gonna look at my case of Zenbeats with DC30 out of professionalism, not because it’s relevant.
You could always ask Apple for a reimbursement if you feel so cheated. I usually don’t advice this because it’s the dev that gets stuck covering apple’s cut.