Something new from Sugar Bytes?

ervin

@nickneek said:

But if the review is in depth enough you can tell whether the app is something that you want, no? Even if the reviewer is couching what they say in terms of “I would like to see…” rather than “I hate this”. Also, a reviewer saying they won’t review something unless they like it shows that the things that they do review are things that they consider to be high quality, and so worth viewers’ consideration.

I agree with you on this. What you're describing is, IMHO, a different genre: not reviews, but what I would call a curated list of recommendations. And it can be useful in many ways.

I would even say I'm actually more interested in such pieces than in reviews. There's so much stuff out there that it's more useful for me to get ideas from people whose opinion I'm interested in for whatever reason. And that doesn't need to mean agreement.

In my book, @Gavinski is a good example of this. His musical preferences seem to be rather different from mine, but his videos give me a lot of good info on the app in question. Sometimes my conclusion is "okay I can see why he likes it but it's not for me" - and that may still offer more valuable help for my decision than an "objective" review.

Krupa

I’m also of the persuasion that prefers an honest subjective overview rather than something that masquerades as objective. I’ve never found that to be realistic nor useful, for me it’s better to have something shown working to the taste of the demonstrator and that they point out any flaws they see as important. Then as an adult, I can make my own decision...

Gavinski

@ervin said:

@nickneek said:

But if the review is in depth enough you can tell whether the app is something that you want, no? Even if the reviewer is couching what they say in terms of “I would like to see…” rather than “I hate this”. Also, a reviewer saying they won’t review something unless they like it shows that the things that they do review are things that they consider to be high quality, and so worth viewers’ consideration.

I agree with you on this. What you're describing is, IMHO, a different genre: not reviews, but what I would call a curated list of recommendations. And it can be useful in many ways.

I would even say I'm actually more interested in such pieces than in reviews. There's so much stuff out there that it's more useful for me to get ideas from people whose opinion I'm interested in for whatever reason. And that doesn't need to mean agreement.

In my book, @Gavinski is a good example of this. His musical preferences seem to be rather different from mine, but his videos give me a lot of good info on the app in question. Sometimes my conclusion is "okay I can see why he likes it but it's not for me" - and that may still offer more valuable help for my decision than an "objective" review.

Yes, this is what I would see me doing. If I don't like something I don't review it. I do things I like, but am not afraid to be critical of them. Doesn't mean I love everything I review universally, but if I am making a video on it it means I at least like it and think it is worth my time and yours. But I'm not interested in wasting my precious time on researching and reviewing apps I think are subpar, and for that reason have turned down many offers, despite getting codes etc. I have also at other times invested a lot of time getting to know an app and deciding later to abandon my previous idea to review, because it didn't cut muster. When I ask a dev for a code I tell them there is no guarantee I will end up reviewing the app. When a channel grows to the size and level of influence that mine is starting to do, it is clear to me that it is more me doing devs a favour by reviewing their app than them doing me a favour by parting with a few free codes.

Gavinski

@ashh said:

@Gavinski said:

@mojozart said:
Speaking of reviews, I find hardware reviews to be much more critical than app reviews, but I think that's because the hardware manufacturers are viewed as corporate, whereas the solo app makers are viewed as people.

As a service to us - the app users - I wish the app reviewers would provide more competitive analysis, that is, comparison with other similar apps.

I do sometimes so this, but frankly it is a lot of work to do those kinda of fair comparisons and to know all the apps in question well enough to give it a good go. Amd then there is the question of whether viewers are interested. My recent comparison of 20 delays was loved by those who watched it, but it underperformed compared to my new release vids.

There are a lot and I mean a lot of different factors at play in the ins and outs of doing this 'job' with integrity and also having a chance to survive and for your channel to flourish. For example it is important to get out videos quickly as interest dies so quickly. That's not our fault, that's the fault of viewers caring more about the latest and greatest things. Every time something new is released people get in a frenzy, and then it is forgotten as the next frenzy comes along. Frankly there are times I feel like giving up my channel as I hate the fact that the market is like that. Yup, its kind of pathetic, frankly, though I am not immune to it myself. But I can pretty much guarantee you that if I drop a review of an excellent app from 5 years ago it is going to get fewer views than a review of a mediocre app that just dropped and will be forgotten about within days not weeks. Also, people want reviews quickly but they also want them to be in depth. These two conflict. I think I do a pretty decent job of it, and frankly it breaks my back and causes me a lot of stress in the process to pull off such quality in depth videos under great time pressure so regularly. So if its not good enough for some people, frankly they can look elsewhere for their 'content' as I'm doing the best I can, with very considerable sacrifices in many other areas of my life to get the time to do so.

@ashh
Neither me not Loopop, to my knowledge, are claiming to be reviewers. I show ppl how to give apps and give comments, often negative, on things I don't Like. If u try to couch these in polite terms it is because I care about the people at the other end of the review and don't want to shit all over them in public.

My channel tagine is 'I RTFM so you don't have to'. But ultimately my channel is an educational guide on how to use apps, it is not a review channel. Leave that for the hobbiests, the people who have time to stick with just one app for months and learn all the ins and outs compared to previous apps they have used. No one trying to grow on youtube and get even the most meagre compensations for their labour has time for that. I literally bust my balls for currently about 250 bucks a month from Youtube with the odd paypal donation.

You get what you pay for.... Well in my case I think ppl are getting a hell of a lot more than what they are paying for, of they are even paying a single cent. Again, no one who is not doing this knows the amount of work involved in all the aspects - contacting devs, administering giveaways, reading manuals, getting creative ideas for musical examples, building social media profiles, replying to comments, writing descriptions for videos, making cards and ends screens, thumbnails. Testing out apps, sometimes extensively, that you end up not doing videos on. Lots and lots of email contact with devs, often about bugs, that ends up making the apps you are using a hell of a lot better than they would have been otherwise.

If you want completely objective reviews, crowdaource me a salary of 30000 bucks a year minumum - that would be a cheap price for the work involved, and trust me it often feels like work more than play - and I'll see what I can do.

But people do think you're reviewing an app. Just turning your channel's gaze on it makes a sale more likely. You don't deny that, I'm sure? I find this abdication of any responsibility rather frustrating. This is pretty much what I was talking about with the whole "I was given this app but don't worry about it being objective" kinda thing. You are being paid the going rate for choosing to be on Youtube, with the chance of a lot more money if you work hard etc. Most people are earning minimum wage with the chance of more minimum wage, often for very hard work for long hours. You'll have to forgive me if I don't feel too much sympathy for your choices.

I think everyone should value what they do and I'm glad to see that you do too. However, if you cannot make it work then that's on you and you alone. You are giving me the feeling that you believe that anything is fine if it makes you a buck because hey, I work hard for you ingrates! It's not and you don't. You are working for you, your choices, your money, your future.

I'm too busy to get in a long discussion and have noticed before that you can be like a dog with a bone when you think you're right about something. You do you, i'll do me, we may disagree and that's fine.

MisplacedDevelopment

Reviewing, as in giving an honest opinion rather than a golden path walkthrough or specific function demo, must be a pain to do in video because they are always going to be a point in time snapshot (though this does apply to walkthroughs/demos as well). There must be a lot of pressure to get something out there, as @Gavinski says there is a limited window where something is flavour of the month and you are going to get views. If you point out the flaws in an app on day 1 and the next day the dev fixes them then your review is suddenly out of date and you then need to edit/redo it or somehow make it clear that those flaws are no longer there and actually it is now a great app.

Recent example for me would be Helium. If I were to have done a day 1 review then I could have not done it honestly without being down on the MIDI editing side of things. As an honest reviewer I would not want to try and sell the app to someone without pointing out the flaws. I know however that 4pockets apps often have these wrinkles that get quickly ironed out. Trying to find that sweet spot between maximising FOTM views and reviewing something that is not quite there but probably will be soon must be a challenge.

Gavinski

@MisplacedDevelopment said:
Reviewing, as in giving an honest opinion rather than a golden path walkthrough or specific function demo, must be a pain to do in video because they are always going to be a point in time snapshot. There must be a lot of pressure to get something out there, as @Gavinski says there is a limited window where something is flavour of the month and you are going to get views. If you point out the flaws in an app on day 1 and the next day the dev fixes them then your review is suddenly out of date and you then need to edit/redo it or somehow make it clear that those flaws are no longer there and actually it is now a great app.

Recent example for me would be Helium. If I were to have done a day 1 review then I could have not done it honestly without being down on the MIDI editing side of things. As an honest reviewer I would not want to try and sell the app to someone without pointing out the flaws. I know however that 4pockets apps often have these wrinkles that get quickly ironed out. Trying to find that sweet spot between maximising FOTM views and reviewing something that is not quite there but probably will be soon must be a challenge.

Exactly - and is one of the reasons why I no longer by default review 4Pockets apps on release but take a wait and see approach. Mynth I wanted to review on release, I held back, and it is now maybe finally ready for a review after a lot of work from the dev, and from people like me giving copious feedback. But at this point, I have to ask myself, is this really the best use of my time any more. Lesson to devs - do your damn beta testing before release, not after

Proppa

The fact that we get exposure to things without having to buy them first is pretty rad.

During the pandemic I wasn’t going to any music gear shops so it was soothing and informative to take in some Stimming and Loopop videos. And though the online / iOS world remained intact @Gavinski both sold me on several apps and saved me from buying some too.

Bottom line: the world is a better place because of these gents.

sevenape

Personally I’m very grateful for @Gavinski and everyone reading the manuals for me! If they could organise my AudioShare folders too, that would be grand

Gavinski

In this sense, @proppa,walkthrough vids are so much more essential than iOS than on desktop, where free trials are the norm, but on iOS there is much less chance of actually getting fairly compensated for your work than is possible making vids on desktop, which is a hugely larger bigger market.

Gavinski

@sevenape said:
Personally I’m very grateful for @Gavinski and everyone reading the manuals for me! If they could organise my AudioShare folders too, that would be grand

Haha, trust me, if u want to see the state of files on my ipad you wouldn't be wishing that. Jakob Haq is probably the man for that job lol

sevenape

@Gavinski said:

@sevenape said:
Personally I’m very grateful for @Gavinski and everyone reading the manuals for me! If they could organise my AudioShare folders too, that would be grand

Haha, trust me, if u want to see the state of files on my ipad you wouldn't be wishing that. Jakob Haq is probably the man for that job lol

)

Cyndilov

Notice that what some here are asking for may be best achieved by an impartial AI that uses brute force to 'crack' a list of pros and cons of apps, but from perspectives that are modeled after them - and then seek them out as audiences instead of waiting around to be discovered by them.
I personally prefer to work on my own judge of character and know what I can trust to be representative of my preference from my favourite humans doing the coverage of apps
Also it might have already occurred to some of us, that it's unlikely one can buy the most corrupted politician with a candy bar. It's sure nice but not what they care about most there

ervin

@Gavinski said:

@ervin said:

@nickneek said:

But if the review is in depth enough you can tell whether the app is something that you want, no? Even if the reviewer is couching what they say in terms of “I would like to see…” rather than “I hate this”. Also, a reviewer saying they won’t review something unless they like it shows that the things that they do review are things that they consider to be high quality, and so worth viewers’ consideration.

I agree with you on this. What you're describing is, IMHO, a different genre: not reviews, but what I would call a curated list of recommendations. And it can be useful in many ways.

I would even say I'm actually more interested in such pieces than in reviews. There's so much stuff out there that it's more useful for me to get ideas from people whose opinion I'm interested in for whatever reason. And that doesn't need to mean agreement.

In my book, @Gavinski is a good example of this. His musical preferences seem to be rather different from mine, but his videos give me a lot of good info on the app in question. Sometimes my conclusion is "okay I can see why he likes it but it's not for me" - and that may still offer more valuable help for my decision than an "objective" review.

Yes, this is what I would see me doing. If I don't like something I don't review it. I do things I like, but am not afraid to be critical of them. Doesn't mean I love everything I review universally, but if I am making a video on it it means I at least like it and think it is worth my time and yours. But I'm not interested in wasting my precious time on researching and reviewing apps I think are subpar, and for that reason have turned down many offers, despite getting codes etc. I have also at other times invested a lot of time getting to know an app and deciding later to abandon my previous idea to review, because it didn't cut muster. When I ask a dev for a code I tell them there is no guarantee I will end up reviewing the app. When a channel grows to the size and level of influence that mine is starting to do, it is clear to me that it is more me doing devs a favour by reviewing their app than them doing me a favour by parting with a few free codes.

More power to you, mate. 👍

kinkujin

So about SugarBytes ...

AudioGus

@kinkujin said:
So about SugarBytes ...

Yah that wav scrubby/jumpy thing looks cool. Not a fan of cables/wires thing.

Gavinski

@kinkujin said:
So about SugarBytes ...

Yeah, thanks for steering things back on track lol. How about for a change everyone just waits til the damn thing is out before running up a 30k views thread 😂

AudioGus

@Gavinski said:
Exactly - and is one of the reasons why I no longer by default review 4Pockets apps on release but take a wait and see approach. Mynth I wanted to review on release, I held back, and it is now maybe finally ready for a review after a lot of work from the dev, and from people like me giving copious feedback. But at this point, I have to ask myself, is this really the best use of my time any more. Lesson to devs - do your damn beta testing before release, not after

Underripe apps are pretty brutal on this platform. I am done with the whole paid beta tester thing.

craftycurate

I find @Gavinski 's videos helpful and they have often been pivotal in purchasing decisions for me. Must confess I'm not too worried what category label we stick on them ... they are indepth explorations which helpfully unpack the workings of apps, and I hope you continue to make them, in your own unique style.

Philandering_Bastard

@Gavinski said:

@kinkujin said:
So about SugarBytes ...

Yeah, thanks for steering things back on track lol. How about for a change everyone just waits til the damn thing is out before running up a 30k views thread 😂

iOSTRAKON

Don’t tell me what to do !

@Gavinski said:

@kinkujin said:
So about SugarBytes ...

Yeah, thanks for steering things back on track lol. How about for a change everyone just waits til the damn thing is out before running up a 30k views thread 😂

Gavinski

Ah, all good for the hype machine I guess

JohnnyGoodyear

@Proppa said:
The fact that we get exposure to things without having to buy them first is pretty rad.

During the pandemic I wasn’t going to any music gear shops so it was soothing and informative to take in some Stimming and Loopop videos. And though the online / iOS world remained intact @Gavinski both sold me on several apps and saved me from buying some too.

Bottom line: the world is a better place because of these gents.

+1

ghost_forests

@ashh said:

Isn't it funny. I find his videos to be nothing more than demos. I don't think I've ever seen him give a definitive opinion. He may say something along the lines of "I'd like to see..." but you'll never hear him say something is bad or doesn't work. That's not a review imo.

He generally has a “pros & cons” segment at the end of each video to be fair

gusgranite

@Gavinski said:
When a channel grows to the size and level of influence that mine is starting to do, it is clear to me that it is more me doing devs a favour by reviewing their app than them doing me a favour by parting with a few free codes.

@Gavinski i can’t help thinking you’re looking at this the wrong way.

Shabudua

I don’t care if the “reviewer” likes the app or not. I’m just looking for demonstration of its capabilities so I can make my own call. To this end, pretty much every video demo, review, jam session or whatever gives me something I can use. So thanks to all who post them 👍

Obo

Gavinski was pretty critical of BeatCutter, I remember watching his first vid on BeatCutter and thinking, “meh, it can’t be that complicated, I’ll just mess around until I figure it out like always.” Then i got it and saw exactly what he meant. I’d be surprised if some folks didn’t watch those first vids and decide it wasn’t for them. It ain’t all warm and fuzzies!

@gusgranite said:

@Gavinski said:
When a channel grows to the size and level of influence that mine is starting to do, it is clear to me that it is more me doing devs a favour by reviewing their app than them doing me a favour by parting with a few free codes.

@Gavinski i can’t help thinking you’re looking at this the wrong way.

Why is that? The app is made, there is no hard cost to the dev to give out free copies is there? It’s as close to free advertising as anyone can get. I think he’s spot honestly

gusgranite

@Obo said:
Gavinski was pretty critical of BeatCutter, I remember watching his first vid on BeatCutter and thinking, “meh, it can’t be that complicated, I’ll just mess around until I figure it out like always.” Then i got it and saw exactly what he meant. I’d be surprised if some folks didn’t watch those first vids and decide it wasn’t for them. It ain’t all warm and fuzzies!

@gusgranite said:

@Gavinski said:
When a channel grows to the size and level of influence that mine is starting to do, it is clear to me that it is more me doing devs a favour by reviewing their app than them doing me a favour by parting with a few free codes.

@Gavinski i can’t help thinking you’re looking at this the wrong way.

Why is that? The app is made, there is no hard cost to the dev to give out free copies is there? It’s as close to free advertising as anyone can get. I think he’s spot honestly

Well, from what @Gavinski has said it is the free codes that are a large part of the draw (I was lucky enough to win one as well). I guess once the channel really takes off he can just buy the codes to give them away and he won’t need the developers at all but i see it more as a joint endeavour. The developers have the vision and put in a crazy amount of work to create the app. The reviewer also puts in hard work to make a video about it and builds a channel around the developers releases. Feels more like a partnership to me. Win win.

skiphunt

I thought this thread was about a new sugarbytes app.

Why is most of it about gavinski?

onerez

@skiphunt said:
I thought this thread was about a new sugarbytes app.

Why is most of it about gavinski?

He is the Great Gavinkski…. 🤪

gusgranite

@skiphunt said:
I thought this thread was about a new sugarbytes app.

Why is most of it about gavinski?

Sugar Bytes are just teasing at the moment. Gotta fill the time....