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Forum Community Challenge #2 The Collaborators
Hear ye Hear ye, Here we go again.
The concept for this challenge came to me after reading @Tarekith's article "Working with other Muscians"
As much is lost as is gained when you are the composer-performer, recording engineer, mixing engineer, mastering engineer all rolled up in one. For those who have or are part of a band/group know what it is like when something "locks" during creation, interpersonal magic ensues. One says to the other, "I was thinking of doing this but then you took it that way so i did this".
Many great things have come from collaboration and collaboration has led to success in many cases. Examples: Simon and Garfunkel, Deltron 3030, Eno and Fripp, Those two from Daft Punk, Plant and Page, Rodrigo Y Gabriella, Abbot and Costello, Matt Dillon and Festus, Fred and Barney, @Michael and @Sebastian !
CHALLENGE: you must collaborate with at least one other forum member, who has been a member from no later than 3 days after this posting. Each team will have one representative submission and all members and contributers must be named. You can be on only one team, but are allowed to contribute knowledge to other teams (encouraged), but not material of any kind (samples, soundfonts, wave files, presets...ect ect) or services (including but not limited to: mastering, mixing, processing, playing) after this posting.
THEME: Myths and Legends. Any musical interpretation of a Myth and/or Legend. this includes Fairy-tales and Rhymes as well ("hey diddle diddle" for example). Judgment SHOULD be based on the capturing of the essence of the chosen fore-mentioned.
REQUIREMENT: Audiobus must be used somehow, someway. The Free app "The Oscillator" by Kymatica must be utilized, again, somehow, someway.
LAW: Each Member may vote who has more than 10 posts and a member by May 13th. Voting will be done in a ranking order by song name (see voting example) include all entries, so could be a 3 or could be 30 ranking order (we'll see). Entries will go up when they are ready and I will tally the votes. No material that has been entered into a different contest or the like is allowed. No posting in other locations until voting has finished to protect anonymity. No telling anyone your team's song title.
Voting example:
Oblah Dee
Oblah dah
Life goes on
Hey la la la
I love that song
Here are the Prizes:
The line of Holderness Media apps
Caustic from Single Cell Software multiple
GuitarCapo+ from Tonapp multiple
Listed in order I received. Special thanks to these Developers for their participation and sponsorship.
Do read "Working with other Muscians"and have a look around Tarekith's site, it is loaded with great info.
I will post a thread called Collaboration, that may serve as a thread to find interested participants, or a PM to those you wish to work with may work.
This thread is open for discussion and suggestions, this is for the community by the community. All are welcome to constructive criticism of the above mentioned. I reserve the right to edit the above on the undeniable request of members up until the first entry is received.
Any major changes will be noted below marked by *
Comments
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To contribute with my thoughts. I don't think I would ever take part in a songwriting comp if it was time consuming. When it comes to my last entry, it was a live recording that I already had, just adapted it for that purpose (esp as it was recored to 2 stereo tracks). I recently took part in a short and snappy comp here where you ha 1 min 2 synths and one fx limit. It worked like a charm also with high participation. I'm not saying complex, work consuming comps wouldn't work, just I personally wouldn't be keen to participate.
Voting and winning /losing in these comps has to be taken within context. There's such a vast spectrum of styles here that it would be close to impossible to having proper results without dividing it into genres or at least by what is the judgement parameter I.e. What's the best sounding mix? Etc
Good ideas @CSwinn. I took a model on the voting from another competition. I understand the concern, If there is a second on that notion of complication in voting, I will reconsider.
@CSwinn said
"might scare em away" well here's what I have noticed on the web and why I say "Challenge"
There are some who will never participate in any challenge.
Some won't participate because their "in crowd" isn't participating. I've been around a number of forums, This is all par for the course.
Also, there are some who will not participate because of fear of failure. The only loss in this challenge is not participating. If you enter, you win, regardless of how the vote turns out. Its all about growth and expression, not popularity or skill.
Some wont participate because they like to spectate, which is cool, I also spectate, but please vote so the participants are not "like a dog without a bone, an actor out alone ".
Some want others who try, to fail, like they feel they have, which is a shame.
Some won't for lack of time.
Yet there are some who will participate either by entry or voting, this is the essence of music, active participation by the performer and the listener.
This can be a great forum and there are some helpful people here, @mgmg4871 for example. There are some very talented people on this forum in many respects, there are some who are new to this music thing and some who are from the "old school", from Ambient to Hip Hop to Metal to Rockabilly (liked that song @MrNezumi) to Singer-Songwritter ( @supadom ) and some plain out weird (like some of the stuff I've posted). Don't be afraid.... Just Be.
Alrighty then, Do I hear a second on the voting revamp?
Prize for the best voter, not sure what would constitute a best voter? Ideas?
Also time frame, 3 weeks for entry dead line (June 1 12:00 AM PST), 1 week to vote (June 7 12:00 PST)? Objections to that?
*Updated the op with some sponsors for this round.
*Updated op with no material previously submitted to another competition wording.
Made this sticky for a while so it gets more attention.
Nice idea here.
I haven't collaborated much with other musicians over the last few years, I was in a band previously and have collaborated here and there with a few friends. It's so much fun and can produce some of the best music when the chemistry is right.
Tarekith's guide is full of great advice for collaborating, I am also big on self-imposed time limits and deadlines as a means of creating focus and commitment to finish a piece of music.
I'd like to add that if you're working together with someone in person or even in realtime via Skype/Facetime, alway listen closely for "happy accidents". Oftentimes when working with someone else I try to catch the little ideas that can happen while someone is improvising or just messing around, be it a melody, rhythm, or just an interesting sound that they may not notice or realize has potential.
When you hear something with potential, take note of it and maybe suggest the other person to go back to that idea for awhile and see if they can develop it further. It can help to record yourselves improvising a little bit in case you capture an idea like this, you can then go back to listen and improve upon it, or even just sample it.
I find some of the best musical ideas come from the approach of careful listening and encouraging someone to explore these happy accidents.
Even if they don't end up getting used in the track you're working on, it's a good way to build up a library of original samples and loops that you can then use later on.
@WMWM - Thanks for the kind words about my song. I'd love to participate, but, simply put, I have no time. I am currently working seven days a week and I have a 20 month old boy. I am jealous of the members here who have the time to explore new apps and actually use them. When things slow down, I hope to take part in these challenges/battles
@MrNezumi 孩子是伟大的，享受他们，而你可以
I understand, right now I am very busy with work and family as well. This is my leisure.
Just to clarify for you and everybody, collaboration can be in many forms, mixing someone's stuff, mastering, laying down a guitar or trombone track, as examples. The idea is to co-operate within the given framework. Of course, full out musical exchange of sound and ideas is also on the table, Traveling Wilbury or Temple of the Dog style collaboration.
Great tips @HoldernessMedia
@Sebastian Thanks
The collaboration request thread http://forum.audiob.us/discussion/4562/collaboration#Item_7
*corrected the days requirement in challenge section to match the law section.
*updated Prize section to include INTUA
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This is for the community and for fun. In all honesty, you didn't want to re-host upon my request.
You know how hard it is to get people motivated after hosting the last one and why not offer some incentive to participate. There is no loss if you participate.
This is a challenge to the community. There has been tremendous support for this challenge from others whom I consulted.
Many other sites run these things in a similar format as this.
@CSwinn, don't hate, participate
win and change it to what you see fit.
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@CSwinn Fine, have it your way, ill strip the prizes and inform the sponsors, if i hear a second and no rebuttals within time, would that encourage everyones participation?
If anyone does or doesn't like the format speak up now. It makes me no nevermind, i will participate and not throw stones regardless. Just like I did on the last one.
Shaped by the community for the community, not for CSwinn by CSwinn nor for WMWM by WMWM.
This Challenge has the support of the website developers and app developers, where is it wrong again?
I will not engage in a mudslinging fest by acknowledging your other remarks.
Hope you reconsider.
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I don't know why I feel so I feel so invested in this. Best of luck.
Head over to KVR, very matured competition and fun, not Audiobus specific though, which this is. You'll find this is not so out of the ordinary. You gave me the reins with the rules you created on the first one, which I abided by and will hand to the winner. Play by your own rules Collin.
Did you want something changed here or are you just venting?
@WMWM said:
This is unnecessary.
I also saw all of @CSwinn's initial comments until his last, and frankly, they didn't start the contentiousness of this. They first said "all due respect", and gave a detailed reasoning for their thoughts on why they didn't want the formatting proposed in this contest to be related to their idea. For the record, I tend to agree with CSwinn's thoughts on the matter. I also feel like the current format proposed in this collaborative challenge could lead to folks being needlessly alienated by a voting system.
To your credit, you also responded with detailed reasoning for your side of the debate...then accused @CSwinn of "hating".
How can I play by my own rules when you're playing a different game? That is the point I am trying to make. This is a contest. This is the idea I had in mind for battles. I was simply trying to point out the differences and why the format you've taken differs from what I was setting out to achieve.
As I've said, best of luck with this. Please don't change a thing on my behalf, it's just not the "#2" of my initial idea.
This is a bummer. Anyway, I thought both ideas sounded equally fun... just to give another opinion.
And honestly I may be more motivated to participate with the lure of a prize this time around.
I'm really sorry, I don't want to be a drag. You should participate @Htmx, a collaborative event is a wonderful idea and I don't want to distract from that anymore.
"@CSwinn said:
I was thinking the winner would just take the hosting reigns entirely. You would post the new rules, gather the entires for a voting thread, cheerlead etc. My commitments are done and I hope that this can become a self sustaining event each month.
Really, I think it'll have to be up to the host each time around to try new rules or ideas and see how this evolves. We're off to a great start, can't wait to hear what you come up with @WMWM!"
Because of what was stated here, I think the contest/battle/challenge/global warming/climate change needs to stand how it is presented by @WMWM. I do understand @CSwinn's side of this, as it was his idea on this forum to begin these battles here. I think the expectation was one of the winners following the rules, and his idea, which he put forward at the beginning of all this, which is to say, keep these as battles, not competitions. However, he let the rules go, and it has changed. I imagine that the next person/people who win will come up their own rules, something similar yet different than either @CSwinn and @WMWM. And that's how this will go.
@ArcaneScreams and @Hmtx thanks, I make a much better contestant than host.
@CSwinn after everything is said and done, I am not your enemy, I am your fellow member trying to help push ios music to the next level. I would appreciate your participation by entry, maybe team up with calcutta. You expressed that you liked the idea of collaboration and battle, don't accept the prize IF you win, then what's the difference?
To the community, There are a lot people watching, doubting we can work together and some may see ios music as a novelty, let's prove them wrong; there are many talented people here with loads of good ideas and many great tools. Let's put bickering aside and work together.
Ok so we have a rebuttal to the prize withdrawal. Are there any other concerns we should address?
Does the voting work for the community? I was thinking of entry without usernames, just titles, so we don't get into a popularity match and the music can stand on its own. No one will know who they are voting for and who did which track so there really is nothing to lose and no way to be embarrassed. Voting, like politics, is a matter of opinion, not right and wrong.
What say you?
@ArcaneScreams said:
This is correct, and because it changed from the event I had in mind into a competition, I asked that we call it something else unconnected my ideal. It's not something that's better or worse, just different. This is all.
@WMWM said:
I guess the biggest difference is that I don't find it inspiring listening to songs made by people with a material goal in mind. That's how we end up with Ke$ha.
And just to clarify a little, I know that people like yourself and @mtyas are in this for the fun of it. It's the ones who will be drawn solely to the $50 app giveaway I don't care to listen to.
@CSwinn said:
I agree with you. Personally, I'm not motivated by any prizes. I own all these, except Caustic. This is the one point which is keeping me on the fence in terms of deciding if I will participate musically.
I like your initial idea, and read the link you posted to the other site. I know I don't post here much, but from an outsider's view, @WMWM is abiding by the rules first stated. I think where the problem lies is in leaving those rules open to personal interpretation, which is a good thing, really, because, haha, fascism is outdated. You set things up to have open and fluctuating rules, and at the same time, want the initial framework to be followed. That is what is causing the disturbance. Opening up a musical exchange within this community is a good thing, and you're a part of it. This will all work itself out.
Oh, and I think the entry names should be kept secret for the reasons stated.
@Cswinn So enter and not vote then. If what is submitted isn't to "keishaish" (whoever that is) you'll owe a big apology to those who choose to participate.
@ArcaneScreams noted.
I'm actually really into fascism so I don't see your point @ArcaneScreams.
Kidding, of course.
I did intend for their to be fluctuating rules, however some things need to remain in place to have a tradition. The issue of prizes is really the only matter that is at odds with the continual event I was aiming for.