Black TIK TOK-ers go on strike and guess what happens next

brambos

@ksound said:
Man says he doesn’t click on clickbaity titles in a thread with a title that ends in “and guess what happens next.” Film at 11.

Fair assessment

joniqwest

Thank you !

@espiegel123 said:

@CalCutta said:

@joniqwest said:
So the “dance moves” are original choreographed dances and unless I am mistaken all TikTok videos show at the lower right hand corner of the screen the accompanying music and it’s author/creator.

Rreadin> @Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr said:

The kids are upset that someone is copying their derivative dance moves without attribution, while simultaneously not paying the creators of the music they’re dancing to, and often not even crediting them.

This.

Everyone in this thread scoffing at the effort to get proper attribution and financial compensation, I have a question. Why?

I think it is related to the issue that gives rise to the problem in the first place. The same probably unconscious bias that leads to white teens' videos going viral when the videos by the black teens they are copying don't also leads people to think that it is normal and not a problem. As long as the bias doesn't effect them, they think that anyone complaining is just a whiner.

espiegel123

@CalCutta said:

@espiegel123 said:
I think it is related to the issue that gives rise to the problem in the first place. The same probably unconscious bias that leads to white teens' videos going viral when the videos by the black teens they are copying don't also leads people to think that it is normal and not a problem. As long as the bias doesn't effect them, they think that anyone complaining is just a whiner.

This is well-put. I have always been baffled at the reflex of some to immediately dismiss an argument and defend a status quo rather than consider an argument.

Also, @senhorlampada No offense but that outlook does more harm than good. If someone's work is co-opted for profit without their credit, the lack of "peace" isn't their own choosing. There are things in life that require action and even reaction. To judge someone harshly for that only creates further problems, which lead to further inappropriate judgments.

Mathematicians can demonstrate that small amounts of bias in a system can very rapidly lead to extreme bias in the results. Here is a pretty straightforward demonstration:

https://ncase.me/polygons/

The underlying math is relevant to a lot of things besides segregation -- the key point is that in some systems small biases (of which individuals might not be aware) can lead to very biased results.

People focusing on the attribution aspect are missing the larger point.

ksound

@Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr said:
2) These kids have a legal obligation to contact the copyright owners of the music they use in their videos, obtain permission to use it, and negotiate a financial agreement.

Copyright owners are paid and credited on TikTok, and the app seems to revolve around reuse of music. Issues with that model would be with TikTok, not its users.

NeuM

@CalCutta said:

@espiegel123 said:
I think it is related to the issue that gives rise to the problem in the first place. The same probably unconscious bias that leads to white teens' videos going viral when the videos by the black teens they are copying don't also leads people to think that it is normal and not a problem. As long as the bias doesn't effect them, they think that anyone complaining is just a whiner.

This is well-put. I have always been baffled at the reflex of some to immediately dismiss an argument and defend a status quo rather than consider an argument.

Also, @senhorlampada No offense but that outlook does more harm than good. If someone's work is co-opted for profit without their credit, the lack of "peace" isn't their own choosing. There are things in life that require action and even reaction. To judge someone harshly for that only creates further problems, which lead to further inappropriate judgments.

Since his post involved an attempt at mind reading by assigning internal thoughts to the actions of others, I thought his comment was largely irrelevant.

joniqwest

Also these original choreographed routines help propel the sales of those songs. Tiktok videos are a big boon for artist sales

@ksound said:

@Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr said:
2) These kids have a legal obligation to contact the copyright owners of the music they use in their videos, obtain permission to use it, and negotiate a financial agreement.

Copyright owners are paid and credited on TikTok, and the app seems to revolve around reuse of music. Issues with that model would be with TikTok, not its users.

TheOriginalPaulB

White bias = bad.

Organised action to highlight and protest that bias = good.

Making fun of white kids trying to come up with their own routines and not copy the black kids = bad again.

Does that cover it?

espiegel123

.

CalCutta

@TheOriginalPaulB said:
White bias = bad.

Organised action to highlight and protest that bias = good.

Making fun of white kids trying to come up with their own routines and not copy the black kids = bad again.

Does that cover it?

No, because that leaves out the misappropriated money. And as @espiegel123 pointed out, that is a major factor here.

BiancaNeve

Seems to be just repeating the stereotype that white folk can’t dance- or jump….

espiegel123

@BiancaNeve said:
Seems to be just repeating the stereotype that white folk can’t dance- or jump….

No. Not at all. The issue is that the white folks that can dance benefit disproportionately and that equivalently (or more) talented as a result don't benefit as much.

ksound

@BiancaNeve said:
Seems to be just repeating the stereotype that white folk can’t dance- or jump….

Or providing proof 🤷🏻‍♂️

NeuM

@CalCutta said:

@TheOriginalPaulB said:
White bias = bad.

Organised action to highlight and protest that bias = good.

Making fun of white kids trying to come up with their own routines and not copy the black kids = bad again.

Does that cover it?

No, because that leaves out the misappropriated money. And as @espiegel123 pointed out, that is a major factor here.

What money?

tk32

Originators almost never get the deserved props ...or money. It's called cosmic injustice.

The OP's video is not a race issue - at least, not directly. It's just the same old dumb popularity roulette wheel of life.

CalCutta

@NeuM said:

@CalCutta said:

@TheOriginalPaulB said:
White bias = bad.

Organised action to highlight and protest that bias = good.

Making fun of white kids trying to come up with their own routines and not copy the black kids = bad again.

Does that cover it?

No, because that leaves out the misappropriated money. And as @espiegel123 pointed out, that is a major factor here.

What money?

The money that's described in the video the OP posted. It's worth watching to get a sense of what this thread is about.

CracklePot

@CalCutta said:

@NeuM said:

@CalCutta said:

@TheOriginalPaulB said:
White bias = bad.

Organised action to highlight and protest that bias = good.

Making fun of white kids trying to come up with their own routines and not copy the black kids = bad again.

Does that cover it?

No, because that leaves out the misappropriated money. And as @espiegel123 pointed out, that is a major factor here.

What money?

The money that's described in the video the OP posted. It's worth watching to get a sense of what this thread is about.

Why bother?
My mind is already made up, full of uncredited derivative thoughts!
🤮

CalCutta

@CracklePot said:

Why bother?
My mind is already made up, full of uncredited derivative thoughts!
🤮

Attempts at dismissal via-nonsensical jokes is a tired way to combat an argument.

NeuM

@CalCutta said:

@NeuM said:

@CalCutta said:

@TheOriginalPaulB said:
White bias = bad.

Organised action to highlight and protest that bias = good.

Making fun of white kids trying to come up with their own routines and not copy the black kids = bad again.

Does that cover it?

No, because that leaves out the misappropriated money. And as @espiegel123 pointed out, that is a major factor here.

What money?

The money that's described in the video the OP posted. It's worth watching to get a sense of what this thread is about.

I watched the video. I’m not convinced there is any money.

CracklePot

@CalCutta said:

@CracklePot said:

Why bother?
My mind is already made up, full of uncredited derivative thoughts!
🤮

Attempts at dismissal via-nonsensical jokes is a tired way to combat an argument.

Actually that was sarcastic, half-hearted agreement with your argument, disguised as a stupid rebuttal.

I guess emojis don’t communicate effectively. 🌚

CalCutta

@NeuM said:

@CalCutta said:

@NeuM said:

@CalCutta said:

@TheOriginalPaulB said:
White bias = bad.

Organised action to highlight and protest that bias = good.

Making fun of white kids trying to come up with their own routines and not copy the black kids = bad again.

Does that cover it?

No, because that leaves out the misappropriated money. And as @espiegel123 pointed out, that is a major factor here.

What money?

The money that's described in the video the OP posted. It's worth watching to get a sense of what this thread is about.

I watched the video. I’m not convinced there is any money.

The D'Amelios and Addison Rae have been paid handsomely by TikTok for their output on that platform. You being convinced is irrelevant. The money is real.

CalCutta

@CracklePot said:

@CalCutta said:

@CracklePot said:

Why bother?
My mind is already made up, full of uncredited derivative thoughts!
🤮

Attempts at dismissal via-nonsensical jokes is a tired way to combat an argument.

Actually that was sarcastic, half-hearted agreement with your argument, disguised as a stupid rebuttal.

I guess emojis don’t communicate effectively. 🌚

Ah my apologies. I misunderstood.

CracklePot

@CalCutta said:

@CracklePot said:

@CalCutta said:

@CracklePot said:

Why bother?
My mind is already made up, full of uncredited derivative thoughts!
🤮

Attempts at dismissal via-nonsensical jokes is a tired way to combat an argument.

Actually that was sarcastic, half-hearted agreement with your argument, disguised as a stupid rebuttal.

I guess emojis don’t communicate effectively. 🌚

Ah my apologies. I misunderstood.

All good,
I also apologize for the confusing sarcasm.
It never seems to play well.

Anyway, I too find the lack of empathy pretty ridiculous.
But not surprising, since we all know White people created Rock, right?
(Damn it, sarcasm again!). 🦠

CalCutta

@CracklePot said:

@CalCutta said:

@CracklePot said:

@CalCutta said:

@CracklePot said:

Why bother?
My mind is already made up, full of uncredited derivative thoughts!
🤮

Attempts at dismissal via-nonsensical jokes is a tired way to combat an argument.

Actually that was sarcastic, half-hearted agreement with your argument, disguised as a stupid rebuttal.

I guess emojis don’t communicate effectively. 🌚

Ah my apologies. I misunderstood.

All good,
I also apologize for the confusing sarcasm.
It never seems to play well.

Anyway, I too find the lack of empathy pretty ridiculous.
But not surprising, since we all know White people created Rock, right?
(Damn it, sarcasm again!). 🦠

ExAsperis99

@CalCutta said:

@NeuM said:

@CalCutta said:

@NeuM said:

@CalCutta said:

@TheOriginalPaulB said:
White bias = bad.

Organised action to highlight and protest that bias = good.

Making fun of white kids trying to come up with their own routines and not copy the black kids = bad again.

Does that cover it?

No, because that leaves out the misappropriated money. And as @espiegel123 pointed out, that is a major factor here.

What money?

The money that's described in the video the OP posted. It's worth watching to get a sense of what this thread is about.

I watched the video. I’m not convinced there is any money.

The D'Amelios and Addison Rae have been paid handsomely by TikTok for their output on that platform. You being convinced is irrelevant. The money is real.

The money is very real, and TikTok's algorithm is famously skewed and purposefully curated. Unlike many other social media outlets, there's no accidental viral hit on TikTok. There's a very good article about Charlie (?) D'Amelio, who was chosen for virality precisely because she was so conventionally pretty and ordinary. TikTok's success is based on the illusion that ANY 14-year-old girl might be the next TikTok star.

Any of us here can be forgiven for not being aware of that, but you only need to do a search for TikTok houses or creator houses to realize that this is literally a multi-billion-dollar industry. TikTok is valued by Bloomberg at $250 billion.

oldschoolwillie

@CracklePot said:

@CalCutta said:

@CracklePot said:

@CalCutta said:

@CracklePot said:

Why bother?
My mind is already made up, full of uncredited derivative thoughts!
🤮

Attempts at dismissal via-nonsensical jokes is a tired way to combat an argument.

Actually that was sarcastic, half-hearted agreement with your argument, disguised as a stupid rebuttal.

I guess emojis don’t communicate effectively. 🌚

Ah my apologies. I misunderstood.

All good,
I also apologize for the confusing sarcasm.
It never seems to play well.

Anyway, I too find the lack of empathy pretty ridiculous.
But not surprising, since we all know White people created Rock, right?
(Damn it, sarcasm again!). 🦠

And EMINEM invented HipHop ....
Kenny G invented Jazz ....lol
Damn that sarcasm is contagious

CalCutta

@oldschoolwillie said:

@CracklePot said:

@CalCutta said:

@CracklePot said:

@CalCutta said:

@CracklePot said:

Why bother?
My mind is already made up, full of uncredited derivative thoughts!
🤮

Attempts at dismissal via-nonsensical jokes is a tired way to combat an argument.

Actually that was sarcastic, half-hearted agreement with your argument, disguised as a stupid rebuttal.

I guess emojis don’t communicate effectively. 🌚

Ah my apologies. I misunderstood.

All good,
I also apologize for the confusing sarcasm.
It never seems to play well.

Anyway, I too find the lack of empathy pretty ridiculous.
But not surprising, since we all know White people created Rock, right?
(Damn it, sarcasm again!). 🦠

And EMINEM invented HipHop ....
Kenny G invented Jazz ....lol
Damn that sarcasm is contagious

Miles Davis agrees!

https://external-preview.redd.it/FYyj_zRkpJvGcUKGDV9WvMc4P-qAJQHYa9ZpDT4zHm8.jpg?auto=webp&s=fcf23f0ae0624423fff4460e05e36f5e19115f57

ksound

@tk32 said:
Originators almost never get the deserved props ...or money. It's called cosmic injustice.

I had a tiny bit of optimism that this could be improved with modern social media, as it’s easier to track where ephemeral things originate from, and attribution can be as simple as an @. There’s no technical reason these things have to remain unjust, but things seem to be remaining the same for now.

Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr

@joniqwest said:
Also these original choreographed routines help propel the sales of those songs. Tiktok videos are a big boon for artist sales

@ksound said:

@Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr said:
2) These kids have a legal obligation to contact the copyright owners of the music they use in their videos, obtain permission to use it, and negotiate a financial agreement.

Copyright owners are paid and credited on TikTok, and the app seems to revolve around reuse of music. Issues with that model would be with TikTok, not its users.

My understanding is that these videos are derivative works, and that the owner of the original piece has exclusive say over how and when his work can be used derivatively. (But I am not a copyright lawyer and could be wrong, and clearly it varies from one jurisdiction to the next.) Tiktok seems to be paying royalties to some entities but not others.

NeuM

@CalCutta said:

@NeuM said:

@CalCutta said:

@NeuM said:

@CalCutta said:

@TheOriginalPaulB said:
White bias = bad.

Organised action to highlight and protest that bias = good.

Making fun of white kids trying to come up with their own routines and not copy the black kids = bad again.

Does that cover it?

No, because that leaves out the misappropriated money. And as @espiegel123 pointed out, that is a major factor here.

What money?

The money that's described in the video the OP posted. It's worth watching to get a sense of what this thread is about.

I watched the video. I’m not convinced there is any money.

The D'Amelios and Addison Rae have been paid handsomely by TikTok for their output on that platform. You being convinced is irrelevant. The money is real.

How do you know? Are you their accountant? There’s plenty of reasons for a person to inflate their worth on that platform.

NeuM

@ExAsperis99 said:

@CalCutta said:

@NeuM said:

@CalCutta said:

@NeuM said:

@CalCutta said:

@TheOriginalPaulB said:
White bias = bad.

Organised action to highlight and protest that bias = good.

Making fun of white kids trying to come up with their own routines and not copy the black kids = bad again.

Does that cover it?

No, because that leaves out the misappropriated money. And as @espiegel123 pointed out, that is a major factor here.

What money?

The money that's described in the video the OP posted. It's worth watching to get a sense of what this thread is about.

I watched the video. I’m not convinced there is any money.

The D'Amelios and Addison Rae have been paid handsomely by TikTok for their output on that platform. You being convinced is irrelevant. The money is real.

The money is very real, and TikTok's algorithm is famously skewed and purposefully curated. Unlike many other social media outlets, there's no accidental viral hit on TikTok. There's a very good article about Charlie (?) D'Amelio, who was chosen for virality precisely because she was so conventionally pretty and ordinary. TikTok's success is based on the illusion that ANY 14-year-old girl might be the next TikTok star.

Any of us here can be forgiven for not being aware of that, but you only need to do a search for TikTok houses or creator houses to realize that this is literally a multi-billion-dollar industry. TikTok is valued by Bloomberg at $250 billion.

This wouldn’t be the first time a company’s stock was completely out of whack with their earnings.