Loopy Pro: Create music, your way.
What is Loopy Pro? — Loopy Pro is a powerful, flexible, and intuitive live looper, sampler, clip launcher and DAW for iPhone and iPad. At its core, it allows you to record and layer sounds in real-time to create complex musical arrangements. But it doesn’t stop there—Loopy Pro offers advanced tools to customize your workflow, build dynamic performance setups, and create a seamless connection between instruments, effects, and external gear.
Use it for live looping, sequencing, arranging, mixing, and much more. Whether you're a live performer, a producer, or just experimenting with sound, Loopy Pro helps you take control of your creative process.
Download on the App StoreLoopy Pro is your all-in-one musical toolkit. Try it for free today.
Comments
Maybe you should charge a subscription for access to the Audiobus forum? @Michael
Totally agree. For some things, subscription is the way to go. Adobe is one of those things that I see fit to subscribe to. Many people have no problem subscribing to pointless things like Netflix, HBO Max etc. But something that truly invigorates them, such as production tools, they want one off purchases that don't incentivize regular maintenance.
It seems that majority of the devs that continue to pump out content for iOS are also on desktop, and those that weren't are starting to head that direction. There are a few who aren't but if you think about how niche iOS music production is, the only way to sustain it is to increase prices or introduce subscription or upgrade models.
Honestly even though I don't really use Audiobus or plan to use Loopy Pro, I still buy them and anything else Michael releases as a way to support him letting us have such good conversations here.
Considering that most iOS/iPadOS music-related apps are 'one person sweatshops' I doubt that the subscription model would save them apps in the long run.
The subscription thing can (and most likely will) backfire if there's a monthly fee and no updates or bug-fixes are shipped on a somewhat regular and specified schedule.
The IAP mayhem can also backfire big time if we look at apps with extensive IAP list (ie. Korg Gadget).
If I was new to Gadget I would likely never get all the IAPs in one go...
I've been getting them when they've dropped so my 'collection' is 'complete' and when new IAPs drop I'll likely get them as well just because it feels ok to continue to support the app.
So yeah, a subscription based app needs to have a clearly defined roadmap and release schedule in order to succeed...
(Subscription works for magazines, music, movies etc. since the library is growing all the time).
Cheers!
I just won’t support rentware models. I’ve abandoned Adobe because of their business model change. I abandoned a 3-D modeling and animation package I had supported for well over a decade because they went rentware. I’m happy to pay more upfront to hold a permanent license for the software.
If a developer offers more value in the form of in-app purchases/upgrades then at least I can evaluate those options.
I would take what Lars says with a grain of salt (not that he is lying just that you can't read too much into that) -- and not over-extrapolate to the whole iOS music market. Other devs have indicated that at around $30 for a major piece of software (or twice that much) that is iOS only that it is not enough to generate the income that a real job would. One of them has said that the only way to make the current pricing work would be for him to develop for desktop primarily and offer iOS apps that supplement the desktop income. NS2's developer indicated that around $99 would be the price (if current sales were maintained I assume he meant) where it would be a sustainable standalone price that would justify the time required to build and sustain it.
What Lars doesn't mention is that Cubasis benefits from marketing done for the non-iOS apps and that their clout on the desktop market benefits the iOS endeavor (both with users and plugin developers of their IAPs). But you look at the problems that plagued Cubasis 3 for months -- and now that if it was a desktop app they would have had that stuff mostly ironed out before release and it wouldn't have taken so long to address the issues if the economics were different. I'd also be surprised if the iOS team didn't benefit from non-iOS resources at Steinberg.
I must be in the super super minority. I have no problem with subscriptions. And like @Tarekith i don’t use audiobus and not sure if I would use loopy. But I would happily buy them to support Michael.
Couple things: firstly, I don't expect anything from any app I buy other than it does what it says it does at the point that I pay for it. I certainly don't have any expectations that my drum machine will become a groovebox unless it said it was one when I bought it.
Secondly, I don't think McDonalds do upgrades.
Thirdly, which one of your apps has had features added?
I'm also in the no-subscription crowd. Partly because I can imagine months going past without using any given app (except perhaps for AUM). To be honest I'm even really careful about following creators I love on Patreon, because I know that frequently I'll just forget or not have time to look at the content they make.
So app creators - who from an emotional standpoint are quite a few steps removed for me from musicians or artists that I love - are even less likely to cross the threshold where I think I want to sign up to support them every single month automatically.
Michael in this instance is probably an exception because like so many others I have been following the development of Loopy Pro - so I have that emotional attachment. But I would still prefer to buy a defined product for a single fee knowing that it comes with "x" years of support.
How about a monthly, postpaid pay as you use model?
Example:
So it’s some sort of subscription model, but you don’t pay if you don’t use. If you’re a heavy/pro user you pay a fair amount (max $48 in a year)
Cubasis seems to do it pretty well? Major versions you pay for, + iaps for extra content / bonus features. I thought this was a pretty tried and tested model, but maybe not?
Also do you have to rebuy the iaps with each major update or can you restore one apps iaps into another if the dev allows?
I don't understand the objection to subscription based on going for periods of time without using it: you don't subscribe during those periods. If the subscription tiers are well thought out, you can subscribe monthly or get a price break for doing it yearly. If you don't anticipate using an app much, just subscribe during the months when you use it.
Pretty much all of them actually.
I think Woott and Kosmonaut are the only plugins that didn't have significant features added over time.
I'll try to explain my own aversion to subscriptions for @brambos and @Michael.
First and foremost It has nothing to do with not wanting to pay more for apps. It's about the way that this occurs in a subscription model.
I'm not willing to have a constantly building pile of little monthly costs in my life. It's too hard to manage and too hard to justify ... which I would be forced to do on a monthly basis. For me music making is a hobby and I can only justify so much expense for it. But the thing is, with purchases I only need to make a few one-time decisions a month to manage that. If I'm short of money or feeling guilty, well then, I just don't buy any more apps until I feel OK about it again. It's important to me to feel right about making a purchase before I do it. It's not an enjoyable process, but once I've decided, it's over and I never look back at whether it was a good decision or not. I just get to enjoy, or choose to forget about, the purchase.
With a subscription model I'm forced to a much more complicated and unpleasant calculus every single month. Which apps am I using? Which ones get the axe this month? Have I been wasting my money on this app the last few months? Is it worth the hassle to cancel it? Will I regret not having it next Thursday when I feel like pissing away a few minutes? How many minutes worth of enjoyment do I need to get out of this app to get my money's worth? What happens if I hit my credit card limit? Do I just stop all subscriptions for a few months? Woah, I haven't used this app for months - is it worth it to renew the subscription to play around a bit with it? Oh - I think I know how to answer that forum question, but I let the subscription lapse so I guess I won't bother. How much am I even spending on this hobby? I better get the credit card statement out and run some totals. That much??? Oh crap, time to do a purge, gee this sucks, it's like choosing which of my children not to feed. Month after month after month.
No way. Maybe for others, but never for me. That would kill every bit of enjoyment I have in this hobby, and would end it for me. And, if I'm honest ... yes, would actually result in me doing the unthinkable ... not purchasing Loopy Pro or the next Bram app. It's hard to believe I'm saying that, but I believe it's true.
To be clear: I would pay many times the amount I do for apps today on a one-time or upgrade-based model. I would of necessity buy fewer apps, but at least the developers of the apps that are worth it to me would be more fairly compensated.
I would definitely be supportive of an upgrade based model. I wish Apple made this easier for developers to do. It sucks that the only practical way is to sell a separate app for the upgrade. It also sucks that anyone who pioneers that model is going to take crap from people expecting free upgrades for life. But it's reasonable, and I think it could work, provided it's made clear in the App Store description. (Yes, I know most people don't read them, but at least it would be said up front.)
Developers - I completely feel your pain. I wish there was a supportable model. I'm willing to support any model that achieves that other than subscriptions. I'm just being honest, and I believe I probably represent a significant portion of the market. I will never, ever, go the subscription model for iOS apps.
Lastly, I would LOVE it if every app had a tip-jar. I get in generous or thankful moods from time to time, or just get to feeling guilty that someone worked so hard for so little compensation, and would love to have a way to spontaneously fire off a donation of varying amounts when the mood strikes me. I would also actually appreciate it if when an app has a significant update, a pop-up reminded me of the work that went into it, and inviting me to make a suggested tip-jar purchase in support of it. If there was some way to even show the "goal" amount of funding vs. the amount received so far, that would be even better.
Sorry for the long post. It's not the first time I've tried to explain this, but it seems the root of the problem (frequency and complication of the decision making process) is still conflated with the amount people are willing to pay for apps, which isn't the point at all. I hope that helps to understand why some are so against the subscription model.
Considering all the metrics that Apple is collecting they could actually implement a way for developer to charge for the actual time an app is being used and call it something like ACR(App Charge Rate).
Apps could have an ACR ranging from $0.01 to $2.00 per hour and with the current 'screen time' function it would be easy to limit app-spendings to a fixed amount per day
@wim thanks for clarifying and don't worry: I'm not a fan of subscriptions either, so I'm not going there any time soon (unless Apple give us no other choice)
McDonalds does do upgrades. Ever hear them ask, “Would you like fries with that?”
Regarding 'Free Updates For Live', that is NOT something I expect when I purchase apps...
...what I do however expect is that the apps that are still available for purchase in the App Store work with the current iOS/iPadOS versions.
Sure hell could break loose when iOS15/iPadOS15 drops in a few months.
A developer should have the option to block the sales for a specific iOS/iPadOS version the app if there are known issues.
Apples review process is a bad joke, apps do need proper Quality & Assurance testing and that is something Apple should spend some resources on implementing as a 'free bonus' for developers...
You should talk to the developers of WOTJA about their experiences on this matter. They have the very pricing/release/update model you have described.
IMOP The problems come 1/2 from apple and restrictions with their store and 1/2 from developers who abuse the system to make a quick buck. I’m not necessarily referring to anyone in the iOS music community, mostly games…
There are some services that are more involved - like CAD programs that need file exchange and dedicated servers - that a nominal subscription fee makes sense.
It would be nice and even might be necessary for apple to have a pro App Store or Pro apps that have a model similar to the desktop arena. I feel that they will NEED to move in that direction as the disparity between desktop and mobile shrinks.
It doesn't matter what I think as it's Michael's app and he will charge whatever he thinks is right, as he should. I'll either buy it or I won't. Personally, apps like Gadget and Cubasis seem to have a name and Cubase especially provided me a lot for the price I paid. The name doesn't justify the price alone but is at least a small part of the equation, even if only the first attractant. I've had Loopy for just short of 10 years. Not much use though as the features that would make it truly useable for me are only now being realised. That's a long time for no investment. But the prices and purchase models above are ruling it out for me. Surely a reasonable present day price with an upgrade price and frequency similar to the desktop world would be an option.
There must be some business model that works. I doubt it is exactly the same thing but many people have survived in business for a long time without be paid every month for their products. Subscription is the asshole of the retail world to me. Not trying to start anything. Just genuinely can't imagine subscription is the only other option. Maybe I'm just too old but I believe my purchases should be a conscious decision rather than an intravenous connection.
Who knows maybe Apple will bring out 'App Arcade'($99/month for all apps in the AppStore).
...don't know how successful Apple Arcade or AppleTV+ are but I've not seen the point of subscribing to them.
We need a "pay to win" model for music apps where you can make music for free, but it mostly sucks. But purchase enough pop-⭐️s ™ and every beat can be a hit.
It's really hard to gauge the response to this query accurately. First of all, anyone who claims "I'll happily pay ten times as much for..." is simply not to believed. Nobody happily pays ten times the original price even for things they love. We all agree that great apps deserve to be rewarded, but I recall that when Samplr called this bluff with a really minor update and jacked up the price, you could almost hear the collective gasp. (To really hear the gasp it helped if you already had Magic Death Eye, $24.99.)
I like the Ableton model, but that requires actual updates. I recall a certain midi sequencer that released a new version of a pretty recent original app. It had updated a few features, but nothing at all major, and it cost full price and people were annoyed by that. Probably unreasonably, but maybe that's because it was early in this model?
Last thought: iOS buys like to buy apps. It's part of the entertainment.
I don't say such things without meaning it. Just because you feel that way doesn't mean others do. Yes, I would happily pay more. For many reasons that go beyond just the value of the app.
I don't particularly like the Ableton model because I rarely find that the upgrades offered are worth the steep price in that particular case. But I do like that I can happily stay on the older version once having made that decision.
This is true.
BTW, offering the choice of monthly, yearly, or one-time perpetual subscription until the next major release, is a good balance, IMO.
It would enable a low barrier to entry in which to try out an app to decide on whether a perpetual subscription was appropriate, and also provide choices for those who want the app but aren't able to shell out for a high one-time purchase.
Isn't it easier to release different version when needed?
A user can decide if v2 worth the money (maybe offending a bundle discount for upgrading) and new users can join at any moment
If/when the 'higher priced' apps start to drop for iPad they better be properly tested before release...
...I would be totally bummed if I'd pay say $300 for an app and bump into stupid bugs, that would just be a quick refund and nope, no more from that developer ever again...
But that's just me...
It seems so. The problem is people squeal like stuck pigs every time someone does this. It does seem to be getting less so though (DigiStix 2 and Atom 2 didn't seem to provoke much outrage, unlike Xequence 2 just a few years ago.) Maybe as more developers break the ice, this can evolve.
Yeh, the bundle thing seems to be important as there will always be people who buy the previous app shortly before the new one comes out.
My two cents are: Yeah, what @wim said...
100% agree.
I don’t like the subscription model like I wouldn’t want to rent a guitar. I’d rather pay 50€ for an app that I’ve used for a year than 2€ a month (would have saved 26€). It’s not so much about the actual money but in how the subscription model constantly reminds you of it. If you don’t use Loopy for a couple of months and you still get the bill…
I was suscribed to Endless, lovely app and concept. Used it the first 2 days, cancelled the subscription after 2 months since I wasn’t using it. If I “owned it”,if I had bought it, I probably would have given it another try at some point.