Loopy Pro: Create music, your way.
What is Loopy Pro? — Loopy Pro is a powerful, flexible, and intuitive live looper, sampler, clip launcher and DAW for iPhone and iPad. At its core, it allows you to record and layer sounds in real-time to create complex musical arrangements. But it doesn’t stop there—Loopy Pro offers advanced tools to customize your workflow, build dynamic performance setups, and create a seamless connection between instruments, effects, and external gear.
Use it for live looping, sequencing, arranging, mixing, and much more. Whether you're a live performer, a producer, or just experimenting with sound, Loopy Pro helps you take control of your creative process.
Download on the App StoreLoopy Pro is your all-in-one musical toolkit. Try it for free today.
Comments
Be careful this could re-trigger GAS in a lot of hardware users.
Absolutely nobody does this, and nobody ever will. In real life, I mean. If this is your clear expectation, I respect that, but you're in for some serious disappointment with any piece of software you'll ever buy, I'm afraid. 🤷
Breaching my lurk only policy as it seems a couple of factors have been missed ;
firstly there is a difference between
"RECOUP" subscriptions to a developer with an established functioning large offering at a high price
e.g reason studios , plugin alliance bundles , izotope (edit) etc ;
where the first monthly payment gets you full instant access to years' worth of tools & you won't hit the single purchase equivalence for 1 ,2 or 3 years of monthly payments ...,
or "INVEST" subscriptions to a new app that is still in development , & promised new features seem dependent on developer continuing to receive subs into the future .
Much as I admire Michael's work , it is a little ironic having waited years for the "end all " Masterpiece , that even before release he is talking about a version 2 which will have features STILL? not in 1 .
secondly , for developers in the latter "INVEST" group above , I don't quite understand why they think a subscription model is necessarily better for them ,.. as Woody Allen said ..take the money & run !..ok, don't run Michael , but surely payment in advance is preferable ..to have the cash up front .
In the fast moving world of software , for all we know Zenbeats or AUM , or Akai (edit: or SugarBytes it occurs to me !!!) or someone we've never heard of is about to drop an even better looper functioning app tomorrow , & a subscription model leaves Masterpiece users free to abandon ship
& Michael's further revenue diminished.
As someone on low income I would prefer a Rent to Buy option so more likely I would sign up immediately,
but as a previously damaged embittered cynic , even if I could afford a single payment , I would prefer the monthly scheme to judge how quickly bug fixes & how well feature requests are implemented with a view to leverage the dev or withdraw my support , thus putting more pressure on dev to deliver on a monthly basis .
just my observations, as you were
I think option 1 and 2 are both very reasonable options.
My only concern with option 2 is that it may negatively affect App Store reviews. I’ve noticed that a lot of “free” apps that require an IAP to get full functionality tend to suffer from an abnormally large amount of 1 star reviews bringing the overall rating down.
I have seen many knee jerk 1 star reviews from people who expected a free app when they downloaded. Things like “great app until it tried to force an IAP to actually use…very misleading”. Whereas an upfront price in the App Store would keep that type of reviewer from being involved at all. Other than this concern, I really like both options.
Seriously? Ok, forever was admittedly a bit provocative, but hmmm...that would mean that as a dev you don't need to make a special effort for the first mediocre version and can ask the customers without shame with almost every further bug fix to pay. As the saying goes: the software matures with the customer. Unfortunately, this is still too often the case. The software is released hastily and the user is the beta tester.
I can not quite understand your statement that I’m in for some serious disappointment with this expectation, because I work both on the desktop and iOS with software that does not annoy me at all or not significantly with bugs. Best and ideal example: Atom 2 from Victor. Or AUM. Excellent works, almost bug free! Well, there you go. Also real life. 🤷🏻♂️☺️
Finally, in relation to the topic in this thread, I just want to say that the higher the price, the more professionalism I expect from an app, and that includes subscription models. @Samu has expressed his expectations and similar little tolerance for bad beta testing and bugs in other posts and I think he is absolutely right. I'm currently quite relaxed and sometimes even capable of some temporary suffering in this regard because of the low prices and the difficult conditions with which devs have to fight. But as the price goes up, so do the demands, which is only natural.
$50 and more for an app that I can only work with reasonably almost a year after release due to my bug reports? No way! Demand regulates the market. If someone is satisfied with that and thus continues to serve the demand? Fine. But I won't do that.
Yeah I’d imagine transferring the balance over, at least to some extent. I’d have to think about it more.
It’s all contingent on what info Apple provided to apps via their receipts; I haven’t actually tried any of this yet, I’m just assuming subscriptions will show up there.
It’s an entirely hypothetical v2; I have only vague aspirations. But it’s important to plan for the future, obviously.
Indeed, up front is always preferable, and I might try to encourage that with a slight discount. But for those with less readily available cashflow, or those unwilling to commit immediately, I like the idea of allowing payment to be spread over time.
I’m still not set on the idea though; I’m concerned people won’t understand, as it’s indeed more complex than a straight up payment, and would require reading copy to get the distinction. But it does feel like a kinder option than just an up front purchase.
Loopy Extreme.
I've actually warmed to the idea of subscription as an option, provided there's a "permanent" (or until the next major version) option. That gives people that don't have the wherewithal for a full purchase an option. It also gives a low entry point to try the app to see if the permanent option is attractive.
Communication could be very tricky though. You'll get people like me with an automatic knee-jerk reaction against the "s" Word.
Indeed! I want to avoid that word entirely and find a better name for it that’s more descriptive. Like “buy in instalments” or something.
Reading through the comments I’m seeing some great understanding of the situation, I find that encouraging. On the other hand I’m feeling like there’s no easy way out… Most of us dislike the subscription model, @Samu painted a very clear picture, if every dev rightfully decided to go for subscriptions we’d soon end up in an absurd situation where you’d be possibly spending 100€ a month on subscriptions alone, appholism x 100 until you drop it all.
It’s obvious that there’s a problem with the current model. I’ve spent a couple thousand in the past years in iPad for the sole reason of music apps, yet the devs that make those apps can’t even break even. It’s just stupid. I’d gladly buy a Linux, Android or whatever if these apps existed in those platforms. If my iPad breaks (I’m excellent at frying iPads) I’ll get another one because I’ve spent shitloads on 4€ apps that won’t run on another device. At that moment Apple gets another grand while these devs get nothing, yet they still have to provide updates for the 4€ app that I bought 2 years ago. Not easy.
Love the current state of discussion.
The need is to find a payment model and price points which optimize for the business while balancing equitable access.
Equity can mean installments over time. It can also mean adjusting pricing per region based on demographics (a capability of App Store). And other schemes that offer lower price points to categories of people. (For example a student discount, even without bothering to police its compliance you can still push up the non-education one a bit and net out ok with cheaters while also giving a lot more access).
All this needs to fit within a framework that markets well. Music tech people aren’t accustomed to many valuable subscriptions. Very different from edtech market I work in.
Probably add a disclaimer in bold letters at the top. That it is a free demo with a rent-to-own subscription or an unlock IAP. I think those people don’t like to publicly admit that they can’t read.
BTW @Michael wouldn’t it be better to release now and save some of the more advanced but unfinished features for the next major release? Just sayin 😇
I really like Working Copy's approach. It's called Unlock, the S word is never used. And rightly so. You only pay for new Pro features you need and if you stop paying you don't lose access to what you've already paid for.
Might not make sense or be an easy thing to implement, depends on the app I guess. Bitwig uses the same licensing scheme (12 months of free updates), but it's a lot easier to implement for desktop software than for mobile apps
That's not a secret - free stuff attracts a lot of idiots
I don't develop apps anymore but back then my free app had this problem with 1 star reviews. 'Doesn't work', 'shit app', 'scam', 'pro version too expensive' ($3, wtf) and other lovely reviews in different languages. People not bothering to read the description and just downloading the app after seeing screenshots
Never had this problem with the paid version. I guess when you pay for something you usually check what you are buying - what it does, what's required and so on
Or go the full on deceptive marketing route, look what a good deal we are giving you, 12 month interest free credit with no credit check ! Unlike other credit providers, we will not chase you for the balance if you stop paying, you can simply give the product back ! and then also have the obligitory attention grabbing 0% credit in a big yellow 10 pointed star
Oh man. You guys are right. That’s an incredibly compelling reason to just have a straight up paid app. I don’t want to have to deal with that nonsense.
I truly appreciate that you are thinking of kindness, @Michael. And by the looks of it, you have an app that will be compelling enough to the market that you could reasonably promote change in how developers make a living in this market. That said, change is hard and requires much persistence as there are lots more idiots out there than represented on this forum.
@Michael
pgmusic.com, founded in 1988, has an update- and update-policy that could be ok for loopy pro.
since 1990 i am a pgmusic-customer that pays most every year for new content and/or new versions of band-in-a box.
that is a lot pf money during that period but i enjoy what i can do with all that stuff over the years.
i would like to use loopy pro in the same way for the next decades and i am willing to pay for it.
Ouch. But at least the gas would be directly useful to the production.
I think perhaps you are misunderstanding what Apple is testing when apps go through their review process. They are not a QA check for apps. And they do not check to find out whether there are bugs in apps which will conflict with iOS upgrades. Those pre-release checks are the sole function of the developer.
Free also brings in lots of casual users with less background in using audio apps on iOS. It'll increase your support costs/time at least some.
A more clear thing to me is a light version and a full paid version instead of IAP. That has some downsides too, but it has an advantage in that it separates the reviews.
If the App Store would enable demo periods, it would solve a lot of these issues.
Smooth. 👌
That's the most diplomatic sick burn I have read in quite a while. Huge respect. 👌
But dont a lot of apps alreqdy have a trial mode where all IAPs are unlocked and something like saving and recording disabled? Keystage isnthe most recent app ive tried with this. They have a lite and a full version, and both apps have a trial with he near full unlock in tiral mode.
Keep it simple:
$19.99 USD for the first 10 days, and then $39.99USD thereafter.
Maybe toss in some much needed IAPs like Time Stretching, Sample Chomping @ $4.99USD each, and we'll be here using and enjoying Loopy Pro
A major update of Patterning was released last year: they called it Patterning2 and they charged for it, whether you were a new customer or not. No problem, as far as I am concerned.
Michael, I think you also should think of what is the most simple for you, and thus spare your time for working and for enjoying your own life - family etc.
Good call!
In this situation, I wonder how many potential buyers are pros and how many are hobbyists. For the higher-priced, full-featured app, it would seem if you have enough pros who feel the app is very special and maybe even indispensible, you can probably freely move into the subscription model.
Then again, if you believe your buying audience are mostly hobbyists, paying the monthly is probably less attractive. I put myself in the latter category. I know, as an ex-pro, the hobbyist buyer has exploded in the last two decades.
Edit: Personally, I've paid 10-20 dollar app update fees without the slightest qualm.
Over the years I also spent thousands on iOS and also thousands on desktop. On desktop the money went to less than 1/20 of the number of devs though.