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@Wim: I'm sure you know this but I'll make my case why these effective triplet notes are irrelevant for swing processing.
It's OK in jazz/swing to insert the occasional 16th note triplet, 16th note "quartuplet", 16th note quintuplet to reach a better note on a pulse or fit a chord arpeggio pattern into a bar:
4 note 16th note ascending/descending patterns are the highlight of the technical jazz players technical toolbox.
The intent of swing is to convert even 8ths into the first and last note of a triplet. When a Jazz gets a triplet it's processed evenly: so 1/6th and 1/3 need no shift in timing. 3 or 8 is a close approximation to a triplet so if everything else is processed we'll get a good idea.
I'm looking forward to seeing how you set up the timer to derive the right "slots" for releasing notes in a swing context. It's a very sophisticated Mozaic problem to tackle but one I'm sure you'll conquer and share.
@wim The most common algorithmic swing options operate on 8th note or 16th note positions, and there's no real mystery to the way it works other than the amount delay applied to those 8th or 16th note positions. 16th note swing is usually applied at anything between a 53% position (50% is no swing) and 74%. Lower percentages have no real equal in notated music, and that is why I refer to it as playing with 'feel'. Lower percentage swing on 8th note positions is still obviously 'between the note' positions but tends to sound messy until you apply the longer delays that result in more of a trad blues/jazz feel (dotted note swing).
Algorithmic 16th swing is really flexible in that it's equally effective when applied to a wide gamut of world rhythms as well as typical electronic dance rhythms.
It goes without saying that real drummers and percussionists play with a natural ebb and flow that's hard to recreate algorithmically, but a simple algorithmic 16th note swing applied at say 57% does wonders at making the mechanical breath more naturally, whilst still being tight and not 'swung' in the traditional sense.
Thanks @McD and @jonmoore.
So my original thought that I should apply swing to only the 8th, 16th, (and 32th?) note timing is probably correct. I'll go with that.
The script is a "Kaosscillator" style midi sender using the Mozaic XY pad. It'll send 1/2 through 1/48 notes based on the Y position of the pad. I thought it would be nice to have a swing adjustment. That gets a little bit weird when you're scooting between timing intervals all the time. It is kind of interesting applying "swing" to 3/8 or 1/6 or 1/12 notes, but it's not very musical.
32nd note swing does exist but it's not a common implementation.
Yeh, but I was thinking at very slow tempos it could be useful.
I was going to get this but I waited to see the feedback.
Reading all the chit-chat about other stuff people want to do but can’t and have to use other apps and various scripts, etc… makes it sound like there’s more of a learning curve with this one and a level of complexity that I’m not sure I want to invest the time in.
Was just looking/hoping for more of a fun, get right too it audio toy to play with for near instant gratification. This doesn’t sound like that, reading this thread. Is that correct?
Nothing wrong with that of course. Just asking instead of sitting through one of the longish videos
No, that isn't correct. It is a fun, get right into it midi (not audio) toy to play with for near instant gratification. The chatter is from people that want more advanced usages. Yes, you need to route the midi out of it to an app for audio, but that's the extent of the complications.
Have you watched the preview video from the developer? It sums it up pretty well, except for new features added since release. If that looks cumbersome to you then nvm what I'm saying.
Many of the features people said they wanted have already been added post-release, so better than half the chatter is out of date already.
You can use it for instant gratification and not worry about most of that other stuff. As is often the case on this forum, the first thing people do is start asking for things an app doesn’t do before they could possibly have fully explored what it can do. 😎👍🏼
PS - the videos are worth watching for a quick start.
Nope.
You can load it and have the app making cool sounds in AUM in about 30 seconds. Hit "randomise" and see what you get. Instant fun.
Or you can take a bit more time and learn what each knob does and how you can shape the sounds generated. Even that is super easy. Make a coffee and watch the developer's short videos. It is a straighforward app and makes sense when you use it.
Watch the first "preview" video and you'll quickly see if it is something you would like:
This is a fun "quick gratification" generator in the mold of Riffer, Fugue Machine... you can start it and turn on 4 channels and play with the knobs and stop when you're happy. Then hit a new Preset Button and make another, etc.
@Wim is adding swing because I think he's interesting in solving the puzzle of how to add swing. His script will probably work for all the generator, drum sequencers, etc.
I had a wish to wash out the rhythms by increasing note lengths to 10 seconds... Paul added a Gate that seems to go out to 2 seconds which is probably good for 98% of the buyers.
It's an app that can make good sounds without knowing too much about all the extras.
Eh? No, that’s another script that has nothing to do with this app. My comments were OT, prompted by the discussion of swing. Sorry for the confusion.
Ok gracias 🙏 all.
I should’ve added that I’m currently in Mexico with a dodgy WiFi service (random connection loss) and that’s why I’m not keen to watch long videos at the moment.
Here for another month and was Jones’n for a quick fix audio app toy to play with that wouldn’t require I have a good WiFi connection for watching tutorial videos.
I doubt you’ll need a tutorial vid to get going if you do decide to get it. There’s a manual too if you get stuck.
Coolio
and thx 🙏
Tried to reply earlier but lost my connection. Case in point
Agreed. That's where it's most useful, 30-70 BPM.
@wim @McD
This is my second favourite Euclidean sequencer for Ableton. It has a more classical UX/UI and excels with the amount of functionality it provides.
The main thing to look at, given out recent discussions regarding swing, is the manner in which it provides swing settings for each of the 4 clocks. But other things of note are the simple switch between polyrhythms and poly-meters and the way the size of the dots on the clock control velocity (love that last UX technique).
Curious, what’s your favorite one?
What's the link to this?
https://alkman.gumroad.com/l/EuclideanSequencerPro
My favorite one is Strokes, as it extends it's core Euclidean sequencer in very smart ways. It's also worth checking out another of the dev's m4l addons called Dispatch which is another masterclass in m4l creativity.
https://www.congburn.co.uk/strokes
Dispatch YT Playlist
How many Euclidean Sequencers does a guy need...?
Enough to screw in a lightbulb?
Infinite. I like rolling my own using VCV as well. Tons of (endless) fun.
Joking aside. When it comes to Max for Liver Euclidean sequencers, it's not the Euclidean algorithm that's the differentiator, it's simply the starting point. The reason you might want to own more the one (and I only own two, but have downloaded many free ones from https://maxforlive.com/), is that the workflow and extensions of each lead in differing creative directions.
Paul's Euclidean sequencer is no different. Most Euclidean sequencers are very much focused on rhythm programming as the Euclidean Algorithm (from Euclid's book The Elements) leads to many of the polyrhythms commonly found in world music. Paul has focused far more on melodic parts, and I view it more as a Euclidean arpeggiator rather than a Euclidean step sequencer focused on rhythm. For example, he has added a feature that resets the clock hand positions as you play chords to auto change the notes. This feature leads to more predictable results but the sequencer is no longer playing polyrhythms and strictly speaking is no longer behaving as a Euclidean sequencer.
I don't mean that as an overt criticism but many of Paul's design choices shift away from the roots of Euclidean sequencers and the resetting of the clock hand bands breaks the Euclidean algorithm altogether.
Different developers start with what is a very pure Euclidean definition and add features or as in Pauls case, happily break the very thing that makes their product a Euclidean sequencer in the first place.
Personally, I'd like to see Paul add more features that stay true to the polyrhythmic roots of Euclidean step sequencers by adding swing, individual hit/note velocity/accent and pentatonic scales (step sequencing via multiple step sequencers with randomised/modulating note values has a greater tendency to sound harmonically correct when using pentatonic scales).
BTW I do realise that Paul added a form of control for CCs, gate length, velocity etc in a subsequent update, but this is activated via the pianoroll and not on the clock face bands. Yet again, there's a difference because the Euclidean algorithm means that individual hits shift in time because each of the clock faces should have different numbers of steps/events (it's this that creates the polyrhythms).
It's good that there's an option that creates greater predictability via the pianoroll but this should be complemented with something truer to the polyrhythmic nature of the Euclidean algorithm.
Using the 4 lanes via an ICA4+ interface into Bitwig on Win10 with no issues.
Very nice to have a separate touch interface pushing notes, could setup the equivalent inside Bitwig.. but this is so much fun.
Paul is working hard to get a lot more scales available, but wants the ability to create chords from them, not straight forward with non diatonic scales.
Nice update, I’m always up for more AU exposed parameters. And while we’re at it what’s the outlook on getting note param automation?
I hear you, but I think there's an over-emphasis on the auto chord arpeggiator stuff, and not enough focus on the core polyrhythmic nature of Euclidean sequencers. It's beginning to feel like a 'me too' cash-in on the fact that Euclidean sequencers are popular on the desktop in Ableton, Bitwig, VCV Rack, Reaktor etc, whilst attempting to tame Euclidean sequences shifting polyrhythmic characteristics for a broader audience. Accessibility is a great aim but adding features that mean that Euclidean Sequencer is no longer a Euclidean sequencer, that I'm not so sure about. If there was more focus on the core Polyrithmic nature of Euclidean sequencers, features like new chords resetting the Clock rings wouldn't jar soo much.
A great Euclidean sequencer polyrhythm should by its very nature feel unpredictable whilst maintaining a great groove. Listen to CAN at their best for a prime example of how compelling this can be.
Apologies if some of this sounds harsh. I started by being very excited by Euclidean Sequencer but as new features have been added, my enthusiasm has waned as the new features take Euclidean Sequencer further and further away from the modulating polyrhythmic rhythms Euclidean sequencers are known for. Maybe if Paul hadn't called his app Euclidean Sequencer, the disconnect wouldn't be so jarring.
Fully agree, I was really happy when it was released. I was hoping for a 'Alkman'-like version. It had the potential, but it's going the wrong way (for me). @4Pockets
I have to agree with this. We have lots of great chord and melody generators on iOS now. Less so on the rhythms side.