Cubasis 3.4 adding Ableton Link Support and more is available

LFS

@gosnote said:
Hello,

I just posted about an issue I have with Cubasis 3.4 (has occurred with 3.3 as well) when using Koala sampler as auv3 on the Steinberg forum:

https://forums.steinberg.net/t/cubasis-3-huge-project-size-with-one-auv3-midi-track/765486

Sharing this here as well and tagging @LFS and @elf_audio.

Cubasis gets really unresponsive when I am working on a project with one midi track and an auv3 instance of Koala. The Koala project that I tested with was 134 Mb. This results in a Cubasis project file size of 403 Mb. In previous simple Cubasis projects having 2 Koala sampler instances and nothing else, where the total size of the Koala projects was around 200 Mb (199 + 1 Mb), the Cubasis project file size was around 1 Tb, making Cubasis very unresponsive and unstable.

I am aware of the auv3 memory limit of ~360 Mb. I would however assume that loading a 134 Mb or even 200 Mb Koala project would still be ok.

Also, I do not understand the huge Cubasis project file sizes when using Koala auv3. Does Cubasis save the auv3 state including Koala sampler's audio and not just a reference to the Koala project? Still the resulting file size for the Cubasis project is three-fold.

I am using an iPad Pro 12.9 1 Tb 2018.

cheers!

Hi @gosnote,

Thanks for your report in the SMTG forum, which has been shared with the team.

Best,
Lars

LFS

@ipadbeatmaking said:

@LFS I've got a couple bugs to report that have been real workflow killers that I’m hoping can be squashed in a hot fix of some sort.

In the video above you’ll see that enabling the loop option after using atom piano roll 2 as a midi fx leads to a weird feedback. This has been very easy to reproduce and happens every-time I use atom 2.

Also, notes inside of the Cubasis piano roll intermittently disappear requiring me to to copy and paste the midi block in order to get them to appear again.

Thanks

Hi @ipadbeatmaking,

Thanks for your message.

Since we are not equipped with Atom 2, I've send Victor a promo request and wait for his reply.

If possible, please share the project with us, allowing our engineers to further evaluate the problem.
To do so, please upload the project via Dropbox or similar, and let me have the download link via PM.

Thanks!

Lars

uncledave

@gosnote said:
Also, I do not understand the huge Cubasis project file sizes when using Koala auv3. Does Cubasis save the auv3 state including Koala sampler's audio and not just a reference to the Koala project? Still the resulting file size for the Cubasis project is three-fold.

I believe the AUv3 host has to save the entire state of the AUv3s, so that it can be restored exactly as it was saved. Otherwise, you might modify the Koala project outside of CB3 and disrupt the saved state. And the host might not save that data as efficiently as the other app; text mode, XML spring to mind. This would also depend on how Koala shares its state with the host. The host has to be able to resurrect that data as objects that can be transferred to the AUv3, not a trivial task.

(Incidentally, you mentioned a file size of 1 TB in your post. Did you mean 1 GB?)

gosnote

@uncledave said: (Incidentally, you mentioned a file size of 1 TB in your post. Did you mean 1 GB?)

yes - I meant 1 GB!

FPC

@gosnote said:
Hello,

I just posted about an issue I have with Cubasis 3.4 (has occurred with 3.3 as well) when using Koala sampler as auv3 on the Steinberg forum:

https://forums.steinberg.net/t/cubasis-3-huge-project-size-with-one-auv3-midi-track/765486

Sharing this here as well and tagging @LFS and @elf_audio.

Cubasis gets really unresponsive when I am working on a project with one midi track and an auv3 instance of Koala. The Koala project that I tested with was 134 Mb. This results in a Cubasis project file size of 403 Mb. In previous simple Cubasis projects having 2 Koala sampler instances and nothing else, where the total size of the Koala projects was around 200 Mb (199 + 1 Mb), the Cubasis project file size was around 1 Tb, making Cubasis very unresponsive and unstable.

I am aware of the auv3 memory limit of ~360 Mb. I would however assume that loading a 134 Mb or even 200 Mb Koala project would still be ok.

Also, I do not understand the huge Cubasis project file sizes when using Koala auv3. Does Cubasis save the auv3 state including Koala sampler's audio and not just a reference to the Koala project? Still the resulting file size for the Cubasis project is three-fold.

I am using an iPad Pro 12.9 1 Tb 2018.

cheers!

Ahhh I was going to post about this too. I had no idea Koala was the cause but it makes sense now.

Look at the project file “Charlie”. For some reason it just keeps growing! Now at 405mb. The copy I’ve just made “Charlie (1)” is ‘only’ 214mb. This still seems huge but the only way I’ve been able to stop this project becoming massive is to make a copy then delete the original, re-name the copy to remove the “(1)” and continue working on it. Rinse and repeat…. Whilst forgetting to empty out the Trash folder and wondering why my iPad was grinding to a halt.

This was definitely happening on 3.3 too.

Samu

State-Saving plug-in ‘snap-shots’ (especially for samplers that do not or can not link to the samples) will always grow in size…

…especially if you modify the plug-in instance like add or replace samples.

The snap-shots are needed for undo to work properly…

Sure it can be annoying but for now there’s no good solution to this issue.

FPC

@Samu said:
State-Saving plug-in ‘snap-shots’ (especially for samplers that do not or can not link to the samples) will always grow in size…

…especially if you modify the plug-in instance like add or replace samples.

The snap-shots are needed for undo to work properly…

Sure it can be annoying but for now there’s no good solution to this issue.

Just to make sure I understand... A duplicate save will be smaller in size than the original because the duplicate loses the undos?

Samu

@FPC said:

Just to make sure I understand... A duplicate save will be smaller in size than the original because the duplicate loses the undos?

Yeah, best way is to go to Settings > Project and clear the Undo History from time to time and then re-launch Cubasis so it can clear out redundant files... (Works a lot better in 3.4 than it used to...).

FPC

@Samu said:

@FPC said:

Just to make sure I understand... A duplicate save will be smaller in size than the original because the duplicate loses the undos?

Yeah, best way is to go to Settings > Project and clear the Undo History from time to time and then re-launch Cubasis so it can clear out redundant files... (Works a lot better in 3.4 than it used to...).

Great thank you.

MobileMusic

@LFS
White dealing with Chord buttons and switching between pads and buttons (I guess), I saw some non-chord keys stuck (without producing sound). Even when I the pressed chord buttons, these non-chord stuck keys remained pressed until I tapped on them to release them.

eross

so is there a way to send audio from a midi track with an AU synth on it, but send that channels audio output to another audio channel to be recorded?

Samu

@eross said:
so is there a way to send audio from a midi track with an AU synth on it, but send that channels audio output to another audio channel to be recorded?

Nope, not yet...
...guess we'll still have to use freeze to convert a midi-track with an AUv3 to audio.

Don't have a clue on what @LFS and his team has on the to-do list...

RajahP

Very nice.. loving this purchase..

Big Thanks..

[Deleted User]

I seem unable to automate Sunrizer in Cubasis using the read/write functions (Zeeon works fine). It works using MIDI learn and CCs but that’s a bit cumbersome.
Anyone know whether this is a known bug?

edit: googling Cubasis automation Sunrizer gave the answer

ipadbeatmaking

@LFS said:

@ipadbeatmaking said:

@LFS I've got a couple bugs to report that have been real workflow killers that I’m hoping can be squashed in a hot fix of some sort.

In the video above you’ll see that enabling the loop option after using atom piano roll 2 as a midi fx leads to a weird feedback. This has been very easy to reproduce and happens every-time I use atom 2.

Also, notes inside of the Cubasis piano roll intermittently disappear requiring me to to copy and paste the midi block in order to get them to appear again.

Thanks

Hi @ipadbeatmaking,

Thanks for your message.

Since we are not equipped with Atom 2, I've send Victor a promo request and wait for his reply.

If possible, please share the project with us, allowing our engineers to further evaluate the problem.
To do so, please upload the project via Dropbox or similar, and let me have the download link via PM.

Thanks!

Lars

Unfortunately I was experimenting and deleted the midi in question. However the atom piano roll issue is pretty persistent across each time I try to use it. Please let me know if you get a response on an Atom 2 code. If you don’t get one soon I can sponsor the Atom 2 app purchase since I’d like this to be seen by your team as soon as possible.

eross

@Samu said:

@eross said:
so is there a way to send audio from a midi track with an AU synth on it, but send that channels audio output to another audio channel to be recorded?

Nope, not yet...
...guess we'll still have to use freeze to convert a midi-track with an AUv3 to audio.

Don't have a clue on what @LFS and his team has on the to-do list...

Samu, you seem to know quite a bit on Cubasis. is there a way to quickly draw in 16th or 32nd notes into the midi grid? i know a lot of other apps can, but I do t know if cubasis can do that?

Samu

@eross said:

@Samu said:

@eross said:
so is there a way to send audio from a midi track with an AU synth on it, but send that channels audio output to another audio channel to be recorded?

Nope, not yet...
...guess we'll still have to use freeze to convert a midi-track with an AUv3 to audio.

Don't have a clue on what @LFS and his team has on the to-do list...

Samu, you seem to know quite a bit on Cubasis. is there a way to quickly draw in 16th or 32nd notes into the midi grid? i know a lot of other apps can, but I do t know if cubasis can do that?

If it can be done without manually doing it I’d, love to know too
Unfortunately the pen tool can as far as I know not be used like a ‘paint brush’ to fill grid slots, so for now it’s tap, tap, tap, tap, tap…

MadGav

@eross said:

@Samu said:

@eross said:
so is there a way to send audio from a midi track with an AU synth on it, but send that channels audio output to another audio channel to be recorded?

Nope, not yet...
...guess we'll still have to use freeze to convert a midi-track with an AUv3 to audio.

Don't have a clue on what @LFS and his team has on the to-do list...

Samu, you seem to know quite a bit on Cubasis. is there a way to quickly draw in 16th or 32nd notes into the midi grid? i know a lot of other apps can, but I do t know if cubasis can do that?

Lowering the barrier to enter a boring phrase may not be the win you expect?

Samu

@MadGav said:

Lowering the barrier to enter a boring phrase may not be the win you expect?

I know and have a feeling Buttersynth will cover a lot of ground already!

Considering my first digital synth was a Yamaha SY85 I'll be more than happy with 4 layers of samples with pitch, filter and amp envelope per layer and some effects on top in an easy to use not over complicated UI

If there's an option to 'crossbreed' the layers (Crossmod and Ringmod) with each other it's a 'bonus'.
Extra, extra bonuses would be per layer arp/step-sequencer and key-splits, but no 'must haves'.

From what I've heard butter synth will shine on wave-table creation and other coolness!
(I will be getting it when it's released, no question about it).

FPC

@Samu said:

@MadGav said:

Lowering the barrier to enter a boring phrase may not be the win you expect?

I know and have a feeling Buttersynth will cover a lot of ground already!

Considering my first digital synth was a Yamaha SY85 I'll be more than happy with 4 layers of samples with pitch, filter and amp envelope per layer and some effects on top in an easy to use not over complicated UI

If there's an option to 'crossbreed' the layers (Crossmod and Ringmod) with each other it's a 'bonus'.
Extra, extra bonuses would be per layer arp/step-sequencer and key-splits, but no 'must haves'.

From what I've heard butter synth will shine on wave-table creation and other coolness!
(I will be getting it when it's released, no question about it).

You've lost me. I thought the op was talking about a quick and easy way of entering a string of 16/32 notes to C3's sequencer? I'd certainly like to see something like this added to Cubasis (+ a global arp/retro step sequencer or something!)

Does the upcoming Buttersynth add this? I know there's already a lot of AU sequencers and arps but a built-in Cubasis other method of entering notes (other than physically playing them or entering individually on on the piano roll) would be welcome by me...

Samu

@FPC said:

@Samu said:

@MadGav said:

Lowering the barrier to enter a boring phrase may not be the win you expect?

I know and have a feeling Buttersynth will cover a lot of ground already!

Considering my first digital synth was a Yamaha SY85 I'll be more than happy with 4 layers of samples with pitch, filter and amp envelope per layer and some effects on top in an easy to use not over complicated UI

If there's an option to 'crossbreed' the layers (Crossmod and Ringmod) with each other it's a 'bonus'.
Extra, extra bonuses would be per layer arp/step-sequencer and key-splits, but no 'must haves'.

From what I've heard butter synth will shine on wave-table creation and other coolness!
(I will be getting it when it's released, no question about it).

You've lost me. I thought the op was talking about a quick and easy way of entering a string of 16/32 notes to C3's sequencer? I'd certainly like to see something like this added to Cubasis (+ a global arp/retro step sequencer or something!)

Does the upcoming Buttersynth add this? I know there's already a lot of AU sequencers and arps but a built-in Cubasis other method of entering notes (other than physically playing them or entering individually on on the piano roll) would be welcome by me...

Don’t know how that post ended up in this thread?! Could be multiple tabs bug as I had to log in again in order to post…

Ignore the post…

Cheers!

LFS

@gosnote said:
Hello,

I just posted about an issue I have with Cubasis 3.4 (has occurred with 3.3 as well) when using Koala sampler as auv3 on the Steinberg forum:

https://forums.steinberg.net/t/cubasis-3-huge-project-size-with-one-auv3-midi-track/765486

Sharing this here as well and tagging @LFS and @elf_audio.

Cubasis gets really unresponsive when I am working on a project with one midi track and an auv3 instance of Koala. The Koala project that I tested with was 134 Mb. This results in a Cubasis project file size of 403 Mb. In previous simple Cubasis projects having 2 Koala sampler instances and nothing else, where the total size of the Koala projects was around 200 Mb (199 + 1 Mb), the Cubasis project file size was around 1 Tb, making Cubasis very unresponsive and unstable.

I am aware of the auv3 memory limit of ~360 Mb. I would however assume that loading a 134 Mb or even 200 Mb Koala project would still be ok.

Also, I do not understand the huge Cubasis project file sizes when using Koala auv3. Does Cubasis save the auv3 state including Koala sampler's audio and not just a reference to the Koala project? Still the resulting file size for the Cubasis project is three-fold.

I am using an iPad Pro 12.9 1 Tb 2018.

cheers!

Hi @gosnote, Hi @FPC,

Below please find the feedback from our engineers:

• Audio files (samples) that are imported into Koala are saved in Koala's "state". They are not referenced, this is the way AUv3 states work.
• When Cubasis saves its project, it saves the states of all AUv3 plugins in the project file. This is why a 100MB Koala state will result in a Cubasis project with at least 100MB. This is probably the same with all AUv3 hosts.
• When Cubasis auto-saves, it keeps two older versions of the project file for backup purposes. You can find these 2 project files using the iOS Files app by navigating to "On my iPad / Cubasis 3 / Projects / YourProjectName / Backup". This is why the project folder's total size can get 3x as large as the Koala data.
• When you edit a AUv3's state, old states are kept for the undo history, which further increases the project's size. This can be trashed however in the Setup under Project / Clear History.
• The lag with large Koala states can be explained by the fact that Cubasis asks AUv3 plugins for their state from time to time (especially when closing them), in order to auto-save. Writing a large state to Cubasis will take Koala some time (maybe seconds instead of milliseconds). Although this is done in the background, there might be situations where this process holds up parts of the app, unfortunately.

Hope that helps and clarifies the topic!

Stay safe
& best wishes,
Lars

gosnote

Thanks @LFS for the clear explanation of how Cubasis handles auv3 state saving. For me, keeping the Koala project close to 100 Mb or less, which shouldn’t be a problem, let’s Cubasis function rather smoothly. Thanks also for the info on the clear undo history, which I wasn’t aware of.

LFS

@krassmann said:
Couldn’t resist and did some first testing. Linked AUM is nicely synced, start/stop working. But I think I found an issue with recording Midi from linked AUM. The recorded Midi from the linked AUM is one 16th too early no matter which sequencer I‘m using in AUM. This affects only recorded Midi. Playback is perfectly in sync. I will do a proper bug report at the Steinberg forum.

Hi @krassmann,

Thanks for your message.

So far, our engineers are unable to reproduce the problem.
Please let us have an exact repro, to further evaluate the topic.

Thanks,
Lars

LFS

@CapnWillie said:
The Vertical Zoom Keyboard shortcut (shift +) doesn’t work @Lars

Hi @CapnWillie,

Thanks for your message!

Please note that our engineering is unable to reproduce the problem.

Is it possible that you've chosen the "Cubase Preset" under "Setup/Keyboard Shortcuts", where zooming is supported via the "g/h" letters, instead of "+/-"?

Please let us have your feedback.

Thanks,
Lars

LFS

@Gravitas said:
@LFS
is there a way to assign more than one midi track
to a multi-timbral Auv3 instrument within Cubasis 3.
For instance I would like to be able to assign 16 midi tracks
to Beathawk which can receive midi on all 16 midi channels.

Hi @Gravitas, Hi @Samu,

Thanks for your message.

Please note that this is not a bug.

The limitation is that one MIDI track can only receive from and send to one other MIDI track. If an AU instrument supports multiple outputs, multiple MIDI tracks in Cubasis can route to its MIDI inputs. However, for AUs that don’t have multiple outputs, routing multiple MIDI tracks to one AU is not possible yet.

Best,
Lars

LFS

@Gravitas said:
@LFS
In regards to the internal instruments.
Do they respond to standard CC# messages?
For instance I would like to reduce the reverb for one of the
Microsonic instruments using Midi CC 91 which is the standard reverb CC number.
If it’s not possible is there a way to reduce the reverb by mapping a cc number to reverb?

Edit.

I’ve been using the Envelope release to reduce
the amount of reverb in the drum samples so far.

Hi @Gravitas,

Internal instruments don’t respond to CCs.

No, internal instruments don’t respond to CCs. Microsonic doesn’t have a reverb by itself, so you probably have an insert or send reverb effect on the track which you could use automation on.

Best,
Lars

MobileMusic

@eross
You prolly already know this - copy/paste?

Tap 4 times to create 4 notes, copy/paste them bulk...
Copy/paste 8 notes in bulk...
Copy/paste 16 notes in bulk...

Until Cubasis has implemented a Duplicate Note option to do it with a button tap...

Gravitas

@LFS said:

@Gravitas said:
@LFS
is there a way to assign more than one midi track
to a multi-timbral Auv3 instrument within Cubasis 3.
For instance I would like to be able to assign 16 midi tracks
to Beathawk which can receive midi on all 16 midi channels.

Hi @Gravitas, Hi @Samu,

Thanks for your message.

Please note that this is not a bug.

The limitation is that one MIDI track can only receive from and send to one other MIDI track. If an AU instrument supports multiple outputs, multiple MIDI tracks in Cubasis can route to its MIDI inputs. However, for AUs that don’t have multiple outputs, routing multiple MIDI tracks to one AU is not possible yet.

Best,
Lars

Good to know.

@LFS said:

@Gravitas said:
@LFS
In regards to the internal instruments.
Do they respond to standard CC# messages?
For instance I would like to reduce the reverb for one of the
Microsonic instruments using Midi CC 91 which is the standard reverb CC number.
If it’s not possible is there a way to reduce the reverb by mapping a cc number to reverb?

Edit.

I’ve been using the Envelope release to reduce
the amount of reverb in the drum samples so far.

Hi @Gravitas,

Internal instruments don’t respond to CCs.

No, internal instruments don’t respond to CCs. Microsonic doesn’t have a reverb by itself, so you probably have an insert or send reverb effect on the track which you could use automation on.

Best,
Lars

Thank you.
I went through the manual and found the list of
CC’s that the internal instruments respond to if any.
To reduce the amount of reverb on the samples
I simply shortened the release time per instrument
as mentioned earlier.
Quite a few of the internal drum samples have
recorded reverb which I initially thought was software based.

Once again thank you.

SevenSystems

@LFS said:
Hi @gosnote, Hi @FPC,

Below please find the feedback from our engineers:

• Audio files (samples) that are imported into Koala are saved in Koala's "state". They are not referenced, this is the way AUv3 states work.

In defence of my (somewhat) competition: AUv3 state is not really suitable for saving large amounts of "bulk" data like samples etc... more like simple meta-data / key-value-pairs... so the fault is rather with Koala than with Cubasis... (Koala should only save paths to samples or maybe internal sample IDs, but surely not the entire samples in the state.)