Cubasis 3.4 adding Ableton Link Support and more is available

Samu

@SevenSystems said:

In defence of my (somewhat) competition: AUv3 state is not really suitable for saving large amounts of "bulk" data like samples etc... more like simple meta-data / key-value-pairs... so the fault is rather with Koala than with Cubasis... (Koala should only save paths to samples or maybe internal sample IDs, but surely not the entire samples in the state.)

And that is NOT an easy task to do with iOS/iPadOS sandboxing.
...until Cubasis gets a proper built-in sampler we're stuck with the 'quirks'.

Constant referencing to files outside the apps storage container slows things down and real-time performance will suffer!

Modified samples are part of a performance samplers core functionality so they have to be saved with the 'state' for proper recall.

I think it's more down to not properly cropping and trimming the samples that make the Koala sessions grow in size...
...my average Koala sessions are ~15MB after trimming. I don't leave 3+ minute samples in a session without trimming them

eross

@MobileMusic said:
@eross
You prolly already know this - copy/paste?

Tap 4 times to create 4 notes, copy/paste them bulk...
Copy/paste 8 notes in bulk...
Copy/paste 16 notes in bulk...

Until Cubasis has implemented a Duplicate Note option to do it with a button tap...

SevenSystems

@Samu said:

@SevenSystems said:

In defence of my (somewhat) competition: AUv3 state is not really suitable for saving large amounts of "bulk" data like samples etc... more like simple meta-data / key-value-pairs... so the fault is rather with Koala than with Cubasis... (Koala should only save paths to samples or maybe internal sample IDs, but surely not the entire samples in the state.)

And that is NOT an easy task to do with iOS/iPadOS sandboxing.
...until Cubasis gets a proper built-in sampler we're stuck with the 'quirks'.

Constant referencing to files outside the apps storage container slows things down and real-time performance will suffer!

Is access to files outside the sandbox really slower? Interesting!

Modified samples are part of a performance samplers core functionality so they have to be saved with the 'state' for proper recall.

Well, no... every single edit / version of each sample could still be stored locally "inside" Koala as a file, and in the state, only the references / IDs are updated. Sure, such a project / preset would not work on a different device then, but it'd probably be worth the gained performance / stability (I mean, if you use a DAW, they don't save the entire recording session with potentially dozens of gigabytes of audio files INSIDE the project file either... or do they these days? (last time I used a proper desktop DAW was in 2012 or so, and sure enough they stored everything as external WAV files... even the sampler VSTs/AUs did).

Samu

@SevenSystems said:

Is access to files outside the sandbox really slower? Interesting!

Yes because every file access has to be requested and depending on system load you can not rely on instant delivery like you can when the file is in your own container. That's what I've heard from those the 'know' how stuff works.

That's one of the reasons it's 'safer' to copy (it's a 'virtual copy' thanks to APFS so it doesn't take more space on the device) the file to your own apps container before using it.

We'll have to wait and see if iOS16/iPadOS16 improves this situation when it's revealed later on this year...

MadGav

@LFS said:

@Gravitas said:
@LFS
is there a way to assign more than one midi track
to a multi-timbral Auv3 instrument within Cubasis 3.
For instance I would like to be able to assign 16 midi tracks
to Beathawk which can receive midi on all 16 midi channels.

Hi @Gravitas, Hi @Samu,

Thanks for your message.

Please note that this is not a bug.

The limitation is that one MIDI track can only receive from and send to one other MIDI track. If an AU instrument supports multiple outputs, multiple MIDI tracks in Cubasis can route to its MIDI inputs. However, for AUs that don’t have multiple outputs, routing multiple MIDI tracks to one AU is not possible yet.

Best,
Lars

Given that the MIDI merging code must exist for multi-out AUv3 the limit to receive from one other track is surely artificial. I’m sure many would be happy to see this limitation removed?

Single send is even less defensible, receivers reading will not cause a state change so why block?

MadGav

@MadGav said:

@LFS said:

@Gravitas said:
@LFS
is there a way to assign more than one midi track
to a multi-timbral Auv3 instrument within Cubasis 3.
For instance I would like to be able to assign 16 midi tracks
to Beathawk which can receive midi on all 16 midi channels.

Hi @Gravitas, Hi @Samu,

Thanks for your message.

Please note that this is not a bug.

The limitation is that one MIDI track can only receive from and send to one other MIDI track. If an AU instrument supports multiple outputs, multiple MIDI tracks in Cubasis can route to its MIDI inputs. However, for AUs that don’t have multiple outputs, routing multiple MIDI tracks to one AU is not possible yet.

Best,
Lars

Given that the MIDI merging code must exist for multi-out AUv3 the limit to receive from one other track is surely artificial. I’m sure many would be happy to see this limitation removed?

Single send is even less defensible, receivers reading will not cause a state change so why block?

I should add obvious use cases:

For multiple receive either a track per part to a multi-timbral synth, or a track per drum to a drum machine/sampler.

For multiple send layering more than 2 sounds.

Samu

Then there's the 'Logical Choice' for the UI when routing midi and layering sounds?

Should the source-track 'send' to 'multiple' tracks or...
...should the destination-tracks 'listen' to 'one' source?

In the case of Cubasis I would prefer to select which 'source' (internal or external) a track gets its audio & midi input from.

A track very seldom needs multiple simultaneous inputs at one time unless it's a 'Bus Track' in which case it would need a dedicated mixer/midi-filter bus anyway.

The 'dirty' solution here would be to show all available inputs & outputs in the track routing drop-down menus and add a check box to enable/disable the 'port' and do a quick merge when multiple ports are selected. This would quickly get 'messy' and hard to overview and would need a dedicated 'routing view' (Similar to the Midi Matrix in AUM).

I'm quite sure @LFS and his team will figure out a proper solution at some point.

Cheers!

krassmann

@Samu said:

@SevenSystems said:

In defence of my (somewhat) competition: AUv3 state is not really suitable for saving large amounts of "bulk" data like samples etc... more like simple meta-data / key-value-pairs... so the fault is rather with Koala than with Cubasis... (Koala should only save paths to samples or maybe internal sample IDs, but surely not the entire samples in the state.)

And that is NOT an easy task to do with iOS/iPadOS sandboxing.
...until Cubasis gets a proper built-in sampler we're stuck with the 'quirks'.

Constant referencing to files outside the apps storage container slows things down and real-time performance will suffer!

Modified samples are part of a performance samplers core functionality so they have to be saved with the 'state' for proper recall.

I think it's more down to not properly cropping and trimming the samples that make the Koala sessions grow in size...
...my average Koala sessions are ~15MB after trimming. I don't leave 3+ minute samples in a session without trimming them

I don’t have any issues with AudioLayer in Cubasis. Even with huge instruments it performs well. AFAIK the problem with Koala is that it doesn‘t stream the samples from disk but keeps them in memory.

LFS

@dobbs said:
So is there a definite list of which devices profit from the multithreading? Should I enable it on an iPad mini 5?

Hi @dobbs,

Yes, as of Cubasis 3.4, enabling multi-core processing is recommended for all devices unless you want to minimise the latency as much as possible (with a project that your device can handle on a single core).

Best,
Lars

Gravitas

@MadGav said:

@MadGav said:

@LFS said:

@Gravitas said:
@LFS
is there a way to assign more than one midi track
to a multi-timbral Auv3 instrument within Cubasis 3.
For instance I would like to be able to assign 16 midi tracks
to Beathawk which can receive midi on all 16 midi channels.

Hi @Gravitas, Hi @Samu,

Thanks for your message.

Please note that this is not a bug.

The limitation is that one MIDI track can only receive from and send to one other MIDI track. If an AU instrument supports multiple outputs, multiple MIDI tracks in Cubasis can route to its MIDI inputs. However, for AUs that don’t have multiple outputs, routing multiple MIDI tracks to one AU is not possible yet.

Best,
Lars

Given that the MIDI merging code must exist for multi-out AUv3 the limit to receive from one other track is surely artificial. I’m sure many would be happy to see this limitation removed?

Single send is even less defensible, receivers reading will not cause a state change so why block?

I should add obvious use cases:

For multiple receive either a track per part to a multi-timbral synth, or a track per drum to a drum machine/sampler.

For multiple send layering more than 2 sounds.

Agreed.
I regularly use 4 instances of Beathawk in AUM sending
16 midi channels of note information per instance which is
64 channels of midi note information and it’s stable for the most part.
The AUM project is for symphonic/classic composition.

Samu

@krassmann said:

@Samu said:

@SevenSystems said:

In defence of my (somewhat) competition: AUv3 state is not really suitable for saving large amounts of "bulk" data like samples etc... more like simple meta-data / key-value-pairs... so the fault is rather with Koala than with Cubasis... (Koala should only save paths to samples or maybe internal sample IDs, but surely not the entire samples in the state.)

And that is NOT an easy task to do with iOS/iPadOS sandboxing.
...until Cubasis gets a proper built-in sampler we're stuck with the 'quirks'.

Constant referencing to files outside the apps storage container slows things down and real-time performance will suffer!

Modified samples are part of a performance samplers core functionality so they have to be saved with the 'state' for proper recall.

I think it's more down to not properly cropping and trimming the samples that make the Koala sessions grow in size...
...my average Koala sessions are ~15MB after trimming. I don't leave 3+ minute samples in a session without trimming them

I don’t have any issues with AudioLayer in Cubasis. Even with huge instruments it performs well. AFAIK the problem with Koala is that it doesn‘t stream the samples from disk but keeps them in memory.

On the other hand AudioLayer does not allow on the fly sample manipulation, adding new samples to presets where the changes can be undone or reverted…

And you never know when iOS flushes the samples and they have to be redownloaded from the cloud.

I’m happy it works for you but that app has been off my iPad for months and I don’t miss it at all…

Samu

@LFS said:

@dobbs said:
So is there a definite list of which devices profit from the multithreading? Should I enable it on an iPad mini 5?

Hi @dobbs,

Yes, as of Cubasis 3.4, enabling multi-core processing is recommended for all devices unless you want to minimise the latency as much as possible (with a project that your device can handle on a single core).

Best,
Lars

Have to agree here. The Multi-core Processing works quite ok even on the old iPad Air 2.

Only time when I have to disable it is when freezing of tracks fails.

Some plug-is still don’t work ok doing off-line rendering with multi-core enabled. And doing real-time render with multi-core rendering can sometimes cause crackles even when playback is fine 😎

But it’s a BIG improvement over 3.3.3!

dobbs

ok so I guess maybe I leave it turned off and just enable it when I hit the single core's limit...

FPC

Echo what others have said ref performance.

I use an Air 3 and wasn't expecting there to be an improvement incoming but have been pleasantly surprised

Revisiting old projects that were abandoned due to becoming a cracklefest reveals lovely low DSP.

Big thanks @LFS and please pass on my thanks to the team I was building up to buying an expensive Pro but stuff that, I'm staying headphone socket equipped

Tones4Christ

My old 5th Gen iPad 9.7” is still holding on and this update helps big time!

wim

@Samu said:

Have to agree here. The Multi-core Processing works quite ok even on the old iPad Air 2.

Whut? Ha! All this time I assumed it was only supported on the later model iPads.

ecou

So everybody seems to be excited about Abelton link. I went to look on the website and it links app together. Ok that tell me a lot. Cubasis already links all my Auv3 together. Is it a IAA thingy?

What do YOU use it for ?

krassmann

@Samu said:

@krassmann said:

@Samu said:

@SevenSystems said:

In defence of my (somewhat) competition: AUv3 state is not really suitable for saving large amounts of "bulk" data like samples etc... more like simple meta-data / key-value-pairs... so the fault is rather with Koala than with Cubasis... (Koala should only save paths to samples or maybe internal sample IDs, but surely not the entire samples in the state.)

And that is NOT an easy task to do with iOS/iPadOS sandboxing.
...until Cubasis gets a proper built-in sampler we're stuck with the 'quirks'.

Constant referencing to files outside the apps storage container slows things down and real-time performance will suffer!

Modified samples are part of a performance samplers core functionality so they have to be saved with the 'state' for proper recall.

I think it's more down to not properly cropping and trimming the samples that make the Koala sessions grow in size...
...my average Koala sessions are ~15MB after trimming. I don't leave 3+ minute samples in a session without trimming them

I don’t have any issues with AudioLayer in Cubasis. Even with huge instruments it performs well. AFAIK the problem with Koala is that it doesn‘t stream the samples from disk but keeps them in memory.

On the other hand AudioLayer does not allow on the fly sample manipulation, adding new samples to presets where the changes can be undone or reverted…

And you never know when iOS flushes the samples and they have to be redownloaded from the cloud.

I’m happy it works for you but that app has been off my iPad for months and I don’t miss it at all…

Good that you mentioned that. AL started to work reliably for me when I turned off iCloud for it. If you are looking for a good sampler you should definitely give it another chance. True that it doesn’t have the sample manipulation that you’ve mentioned but it has really good envelopes and filters that allow you to shape the sound of the samples to a great degree. The EXS24 and SFZ import also works well if you move the samples into AL’s import folder beforehand. If it is about creating sample instruments it would always be my first choice.

ecou

@ecou said:
So everybody seems to be excited about Abelton link. I went to look on the website and it links app together. Ok that tell me a lot. Cubasis already links all my Auv3 together. Is it a IAA thingy?

What do YOU use it for ?

P.s. I am not a stupid hippy, but I am a stupid metal head ? 😎

aaronpc

@ecou said:

@ecou said:
So everybody seems to be excited about Abelton link. I went to look on the website and it links app together. Ok that tell me a lot. Cubasis already links all my Auv3 together. Is it a IAA thingy?

What do YOU use it for ?

P.s. I am not a stupid hippy, but I am a stupid metal head ? 😎

It's only relevant to you if you're using Cubasis alongside other apps and/or devices, as Link locks their tempo and start/stop. If you stay in Cubasis all the time, then don't worry about it and proceed as you were.

wim

@ecou said:
So everybody seems to be excited about Abelton link. I went to look on the website and it links app together. Ok that tell me a lot. Cubasis already links all my Auv3 together. Is it a IAA thingy?

What do YOU use it for ?

It's just a better (in some people's opinion) option to do some of the same things MIDI Clock sync does, but more transparently, and over Wifi and across devices without having to wire things together. It's like a big metronome for all apps and devices that support it. No setup or routing - just turn it on and any app that supports it on any device on the same network syncs to everything else.

There is no master/slave relationship where you need to decide which device/app is the master. You can start and stop from any member. Any member can adjust the tempo. Apps can be made to start on bar boundaries. It has automatic adjustments to keep things in sync. Probably some other things too. Note, some of those things can be thought of as disadvantages vs. MIDI Clock depending on your outlook.

In the case of Cubasis, it's huge. Until now, Cubasis could not be a clock slave to other app, it had to be the master for tempo.

LFS

@ecou said:
So everybody seems to be excited about Abelton link. I went to look on the website and it links app together. Ok that tell me a lot. Cubasis already links all my Auv3 together. Is it a IAA thingy?

What do YOU use it for ?

Hi @ecou,

You might give these steps a try to get an idea:

• Launch Cubasis on the iPad and iPhone
• Enable "Ableton Link" and "Sync Start/Stop" under "Setup/MIDI"

Once done, both Cubasis app versions are in perfect sync.

Same works for Cubasis and other Link-enabled apps on the same device, on other devices, hardware devices... there are endless options. Plus, it can be used cable-free and you can bring together recorded performances (when using Cubasis with Cubasis) via the mixdown feature.

Hope that helps!

Best,
Lars

LFS

@CapnWillie said:

@LFS said:

@CapnWillie said:
The Vertical Zoom Keyboard shortcut (shift +) doesn’t work @Lars

Hi @CapnWillie,

Thanks for your message!

Please note that our engineering is unable to reproduce the problem.

Is it possible that you've chosen the "Cubase Preset" under "Setup/Keyboard Shortcuts", where zooming is supported via the "g/h" letters, instead of "+/-"?

Please let us have your feedback.

Thanks,
Lars

Nope. Actually, I’m glad you mentioned it because the Cubasis preset (g/h) works great. The default keyboard shortcuts doesn’t work right. Shift + + does not vertically zoom for me. There is only horizontal zoom in and zoom out.

*edit
Now with Cubasis preset…horizontal zoom doesn’t work (g/h). I’m using Magic Keyboard 2.

Cubasis preset works best but it stops working and requires restart to work again. Somethings wrong here for sure.

Hi @CapnWillie,

Unfortunately our engineers are unable to reproduce the problem!

What language is set on your keyboard in use?
Are you able to provide us with a screenshot?

Thanks,
Lars

ecou

@wim said:

@ecou said:
So everybody seems to be excited about Abelton link. I went to look on the website and it links app together. Ok that tell me a lot. Cubasis already links all my Auv3 together. Is it a IAA thingy?

What do YOU use it for ?

It's just a better (in some people's opinion) option to do some of the same things MIDI Clock sync does, but more transparently, and over Wifi and across devices without having to wire things together. It's like a big metronome for all apps and devices that support it. No setup or routing - just turn it on and any app that supports it on any device on the same network syncs to everything else.

There is no master/slave relationship where you need to decide which device/app is the master. You can start and stop from any member. Any member can adjust the tempo. Apps can be made to start on bar boundaries. It has automatic adjustments to keep things in sync. Probably some other things too. Note, some of those things can be thought of as disadvantages vs. MIDI Clock depending on your outlook.

In the case of Cubasis, it's huge. Until now, Cubasis could not be a clock slave to other app, it had to be the master for tempo.

If it is huge what are the use case? I can’t think of any. But I am pretty new to electronic music.

ecou

@ecou said:

@wim said:

@ecou said:
So everybody seems to be excited about Abelton link. I went to look on the website and it links app together. Ok that tell me a lot. Cubasis already links all my Auv3 together. Is it a IAA thingy?

What do YOU use it for ?

It's just a better (in some people's opinion) option to do some of the same things MIDI Clock sync does, but more transparently, and over Wifi and across devices without having to wire things together. It's like a big metronome for all apps and devices that support it. No setup or routing - just turn it on and any app that supports it on any device on the same network syncs to everything else.

There is no master/slave relationship where you need to decide which device/app is the master. You can start and stop from any member. Any member can adjust the tempo. Apps can be made to start on bar boundaries. It has automatic adjustments to keep things in sync. Probably some other things too. Note, some of those things can be thought of as disadvantages vs. MIDI Clock depending on your outlook.

In the case of Cubasis, it's huge. Until now, Cubasis could not be a clock slave to other app, it had to be the master for tempo.

If it is huge what are real life the use case? I can’t think of any. But I am pretty new to electronic music.

I wanna hear how people use it in real life.

LFS

@timforsyth said:
Yay for ableton link.

This might sound like a strange use case but I’m going to find this especially useful when freezing a track fails to render anything close to the original. Cutting up the sample recorded in AUM is always an additional step I find a pain. Just tried it, was able to record a perfect loop first time. Nice.

MIDI stretch is going to save an abandoned project of mine, so this is good news for me. It does not stretch automation data, but I guess since it’s not midi, I wouldn’t expect it to. (CC data is stretched)

Great work, especially on all those pesky bugs.

Hi @timforsyth,

We've received a similar App Store rating, where controller data seems not to be stretched.
Unfortunately the team is unable to reproduce the problem, and the user did not reply so far.

If you still encounter issues using MIDI time-stretching, please share the steps (and maybe a short clip), to allow our engineers evaluating the problem.

Thanks!

Stay well,
Lars

MistaG

@KirbyMumbo said:
@LFS Any chance your team can fix mixing down to stems on the base ipad? I get no sound on tracks and wasted an 40 minutes troubleshooting only to find it wasn’t my AUV3s, its that the basic function doesn’t work.

Any feedback on this getting fixed yet? It’s the only thing stopping me from updating

LFS

@MistaG said:

@KirbyMumbo said:
@LFS Any chance your team can fix mixing down to stems on the base ipad? I get no sound on tracks and wasted an 40 minutes troubleshooting only to find it wasn’t my AUV3s, its that the basic function doesn’t work.

Any feedback on this getting fixed yet? It’s the only thing stopping me from updating

Hi @MistaG, Hi @KirbyMumbo,

The "Create separate files" mixdown option issue will be resolved in the upcoming Cubasis 3.4.1 update.

Best,
Lars

MistaG

@LFS said:

@MistaG said:

@KirbyMumbo said:
@LFS Any chance your team can fix mixing down to stems on the base ipad? I get no sound on tracks and wasted an 40 minutes troubleshooting only to find it wasn’t my AUV3s, its that the basic function doesn’t work.

Any feedback on this getting fixed yet? It’s the only thing stopping me from updating

Hi @MistaG, Hi @KirbyMumbo,

The "Create separate files" mixdown option issue will be resolved in the upcoming Cubasis 3.4.1 update.

Best,
Lars

Thanks Lars. I’ve only recently started using Cubasis and I love it.

Bob

@LFS
Not sure if mentioned before, but when erasing one or more clips in the arrangement view, Cubasis freezes.
The “erase” tab greys out and Cubasis keeps playing for a while before shutting down and then restarts.
I have tried several Audio settings, multicore and latency, but no solution.
Ipad Pro 4th gen
IOS 15.3.1
Not sure what could be causing this.

Very happy with the update though.