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Lumbeat apps - yet another issue - IAA and bluetooth
Trying to get together some live sets using Lumbeat drum apps, however I have come across a few "gotchas".
As each one needs to be open (one of the main issues with IAA, I will be using at least four of them) and even though I am using AUM Mixer, when I press the play on a bluetooth pedal, it actually starts all of them running!
On top of that, when I load a different AUM session that uses a different Lumbeat drum app to the previous, I have to go back into the drum app itself, and turn off the bluetooth pedal and turn it back on again (under the MIDI section in Lumbeat) as the various drum machines "lose" the connection when going back and forth.
My bad, I just sorta assumed it would all work (even with the restriction that IAA apps need to be loaded in the background), which is why I invested in 5 of the apps and some extras.
So Lumbeat it would seem, while being the best "useable" drum machines on iOS, are still only ok for using in the lounge room....they really need to be AUV3 which is never going to happen as there is no user pressure (and any user pressure is just ignored by the developer) for it to happen and as there is no competition to make it happen, well, it won't!
As soon as some enterprising developer creates AUV3 drum apps in this style, Lumbeat will be out of business!
It's a pity Jamstix will never make it to iOS!
Comments
I imagine that there's a solution to this issue if we drill into how you have it set up. I can think of several things that could be happening and that can be resolved with methodical troubleshooting. (Aside, of course, from the risk of iOS shutting down any of those apps if/when it thinks it needs the resources.)
I'm not sure if the purpose of the thread is to encourage people to pressure Lumbeats for AUv3, or to try to solve the problem, or both. If it is to try to solve the problem, I'm up for trying.
And yeh, It'll never happen, but boy would I love to see Jamstix for iOS!!
The obvious first question: Do you happen to have Link Start/Stop enabled in all the apps? That'll start them all if any of them start for sure.
Hey wim, how's it going
Nah, no pressure to the dev, he's already indicated he has zero interest or need to change. More a heads up for others really.
No link is being used in any of them.
tbh, the annoying thing is they "lose/forget" the BT connection when swapping out different drum apps...absolutely a "no-go" for live work. No time to keep going in at the start of a song to re-establish a BT connection!!
I started experimenting with this, and I can see some definite obstacles to overcome, but so far all of them due to how IAA and AUM work, and not due to the Lumbeats apps.
If you load the drummer apps into AUM, by default they're all going to follow the AUM transport. So because of IAA host sync, starting one of them will start them all, even if they're disabled in the AUM channel. From an audio perspective that's OK I guess, but who wants to have four heavy-duty apps running when they're not being heard.
Do the apps have to be loaded in AUM for mixing purposes? Or could they be just running independently?
Does the AUM transport need to be running?
nah, I am not using the AUM transport at all. Experimenting with trying to set tempos in the drum app itself, then saving that session.
No mixing, using it with live keys (hardware). So each session is a song, saved under a osng name and hopefully all the pre-arranged drum app settings "hold".
Managed to get it to "see " the BT pedal swapping in and out of sessions, but have no idea how I did it. It just started working. Hopefully it is not some random thing and will not be flukey in its operation!
I think this is doable if the AUM transport isn't used. I think we can avoid the Bluetooth disconnect as well by telling the apps to listen to AUM rather than the Bluetooth controller directly, then routing the controller to AUM output. So far I've got it working by mapping Play to the note my controller sends in the Lumbeats apps.
@pax-eterna : I think you misunderstand LUMBEATS’ AUv3 attitude. It isn’t that he has no interest, it is that he looked into and found the obstacles large (probably meaning that doing it right would be hugely time-consuming without a prospect of generating enough income to justify the time).
Adapting apps designed years and years ago to work as AUv3 sometimes requires starting almost from scratch…there are a ton of developers in the same boat.
Have you considered outputting all that Lumbeat stuff as audio files, and using audio files for your live set?
If you can do this (depends on the details of your project) it would save you the headache and be way more foolproof.
ahhh, ok I guess that's fair enough
I've hundreds of audio backing tracks already written (in PC DAW) but I am trying to go as much live as I can for a few boutique low key gigs...so playing bass and keys live with just a drum machine running.
Just found another "hiccup" that may render the whole process moot.
Seems the drum apps are not recalling what was set in the AUM session and simply "holding" whatever was being used the lst time it was used.
EG: I have two songs using Soft Drummer, one at 68bpm, and using a particular kit and feel, the other at 100bpm with a different bank rhythm and sound. Both saved as different AUM Sessions.
I can load the first one, but when I load the second (or subsequent sessions) Soft Drummer is still stuck on the first one loaded. It does not change.
So unless there is a way to create songs (in the Lumbeat apps) I can select via midi from AUM (I think it has PC and MSB/LSB messaging) it's not going to work
Yes, IAA doesn't do state saving, and the Lumbeats apps don't implement Audiobus state saving, so that's a further issue. The transport thing can be solved though.
As someone else mentioned, if it's workable to render all this to audio files and just loop those, it'll be simpler and far less risky in a live situation.
The Lumbeats apps have a song mode -- and songs can be recalled via midi. They also have LivePad sets that can be recalled and controlled by MIDI.
IAA apps don't have state information that hosts can save. (There are some IAA apps that support Audiobus-state saving but that that only applies to when they are loaded into Audiobus -- and Lumbeats apps don't support it). When AUM or other host saves a configuration that includes and IAA app -- it doesn't have access to any of the IAA apps settings in order to save them.
If you save Live Sets (or songs), you can recall them when you open your AUM projects by sending MIDI to the Lumbeats apps.
@espiegel123 so I actually create the songs IN the Lumbeat app, and simply use a PC msb/lsb message from AUM to load them, yes?
Yes. For songs, it looks like the MIDI commands are next and previous song.
ahh, ok....for a second I had a flash of how I could get it to work, bu simply creating a song out of a Lumbeat setup, then being able to randomly select any in the song list by using MIDI. If it's only next or previous then that means needing to set up a playlist and no real way to jump if I decide on the night to skip a few or change order.
It is interesting as you can select Bank Rhythm and Soundset using MSB/LSB and PC under the MIDI options....maybe I can do it that way.
Set those up in AUM to transmit to Lumbeat - not sure how to send the tempo though, only Tap Tempo seems to be an option. Might be able to investigate using AU transport to start the song...anyway stuff to look at and investigate
Seems I cannot send as much MIDI data from AUM as I thought. There is no where in the app to set up a MSB/LSB and PC message chain. So that's out
I'm not having any problems controlling start/stop and tempo from AUM. In the session I load only the Lumbeats apps I want, but keep the others running so that they load smoothly. Then I turn off Link Start/Stop and all MIDI inputs in the Lumbeats apps. Finally I map a button on my Blueboard to toggle play in AUM. Only the apps that are present in the AUM session start and stop.
It can also be done with specific midi mappings and routings in AUM without using the transport, but doing it this way solves both the tempo and start/stop problem.
As for selecting songs ... I'll leave that to others.
Streambyter or Mozaic could do this for you.
If you want to do a quick test and have Mozaic, the Basic MIDI Controls script will let you send configurable Bank and Program Change from a button press.
You can use any number of AUs to send midi events from AUM to the LUMBEATS apps.
Yes, just been trying Setlist Maker - got it all set up but Lumbeat is not "seeing" the data, or at any rate is not responding. Got it set as a device in SM, matching channels, set the MIDI preset with CC data, got SM as the MIDI in device for Lumbeat. Nothing!
I already have SM, do not have Mozaic will have a look.
Check with a midi monitor to make sure the right midi on the right channel is being sent. Be aware that note octave numbers can vary between apps as there isn’t a standard. Also, sometimes you need to have LUMBEATS listen to the source app rather than have the source app send to LUMBEATS.
yes getting it to start and stop was the easy part, being able to select different settings however is what this is all about. I amfast coming to the conclusion it is all going to have to be manual. Manually open which Lumbeat app I want to use, then open the song menu then select the song...Had a look at Mozaic and it is so UN-intuitive. Setlist Maker SHOULD work but it's not. I cannot use MSB/LSB and PC in AUM.
Just too difficult I reckon! Of course, and I DO hate to harp on, but an AUV3 drum app would be a snap! But there are NONE like Lumbeats
Understood that it's all intimidating. But if you break it down patiently and solve one problem at a time just about anything is solvable. It just depends on whether you have the patience and persistence to work it through.
That said ... I would never attempt something like this for live work. There is just far too much that can go wrong. I would commit those Lumbeats patterns to audio clips and load them into Loopy Pro sessions. Transport, tempo, and reliability problems all vanish when you use the right tool for the job. Thinking about kludging a bunch of things that are at the mercy of iOS resource management and use a deprecated technology in a performance environment makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up.
As I wrote above, I already have hundreds of backing tracks! I am well aware of what I can do on that side of things. Been using them for years.
That is not the point of this exercise!
OK, well I wish you the best of luck.
If you have specific questions about how to make things work together I'll try to answer if I know anything about them. Setlist Maker I have no clue about.
SLM is set as a MIDI in in SD (Soft Drummer in this case) so ergo it SHOULD already be listening...Double checked all the MIDI connections (as in virtual ones not hardware
) everything matches and really, should just work!
This is all CC data, not notes!
haha, thanks wim
I mean, it all should just work. Lumbeat can rx MIDI CC/PC data, that data is set in an app sending to SD...it WILL be something really small and simple (it invariably is hahaha!) but I am just missing it. AFAICS I have covered all the "usual suspects"
yeah I will
Have you confirmed with a midi monitor what is being sent and that it is in the midi channel LUMBEATS is listening to?
I tried MIDI Wrench but got no joy...might need to look at another monitoring app I think.
I did try SLM with an app I KNOW receives MIDI data and that app didn't get anything either. Might be something in SLM...I am in contact with SLM helpdesk at the mo.