Thank you

Svetlovska

@knewspeak

What, you mean ‘do the research?’ Take the red pill? All that? Frankly, who has got the time? Or the interest? To debate with people who think ‘research’ means Googling five other people on the interweb who agree with them? Opinions are like arseholes. Everyone’s got one…

I actually lost my oldest male friend to that kind of crap. During lockdown he disappeared down the social media right wing rabbit hole talking about woke this and MSM that, until he felt he could not, should not, communicate with me any more, because I wasn’t ‘doing the research’ like he was (I.e. watching the hours-long YouTube conspiracy-theory rants about Bill Gates and vaccination by some arsehole incel with an opinion in a bedsit somewhere he kept sending me) and therefore my degrees and postgrad qualifications counted for naught in critical evaluation skills compared to the searing light of The Actual Revealed Truth brought to the world by Kevin from Croydon). We haven’t spoken since, and I suspect we never will again, and I mourn the loss of a good friend with whom I had been through some pretty extreme situations back in the day.

See, a few years back, I got heavily into Post Modern philosophy, Derrida, Foucault, Butler, Deleuze & Giuttari, ‘rhizomatic’’ thinking, all that good stuff. Still think a lot of it is directly applicable to the situation of transgender (yes, I am the Derridan zombie - even though Derrida never actually spoke to that), I am a living example of differance, a category upsetter just by breathing, a destabiliser. As I say, all good clean PoMo fun.

Unfortunately, then the unfun bros of 4chan and their ilk gotta hold of the cool kids toys, and weaponised PoMo as a kind of universal solvent, liquefying all the bonds that held society, democracy, and yes, I’ll say, it, decency together. And weapons in hands of the untrained, as we all know, are dangerous things.

So here we are.

Krupa

Speaking to the above, this was quite a nice look at the history of debate in western society falling apart:

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/things-fell-apart/id1592984136

Pandan

I don’t think bringing up that celebrity trial was really good evidence to counter espegial123’s statement it was a response to. Especially when one doesn’t have to dig that deep to find plenty of support from places other than “progressive MSM” that has been absurd, and worse. This piece breaks some of it down well, especially starting at the following paragraph:

Perhaps more concerning is the appeal of the trial to right-wing ideologues, and how easily anti-Heard talking points work with “anti-woke” and conservative talking points about the Culture War®. Ben Shapiro’s Daily Wire has spent nearly $50,000 promoting anti-Heard ads on Instagram and Facebook. Like hyenas and vultures descending on a sun-ripened carcass, these forces have come together to feed on toxic trial gossip, acting like their analysis is in the public service when it’s really just a lot of noisy agitation.

But that’s all I’ll say about that trial, and really, it’s neither here nor there as far as this thread is concerned imo, and I hope it doesn’t get pulled into yet another place on the internet where a bunch of non-legal experts litigate or re-litigate that trial.

Svetlovska

@Krupa said:
Speaking to the above, this was quite a nice look at the history of debate in western society falling apart:

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/things-fell-apart/id1592984136

Yup, heard it when it first went out. I also like what PoMo trans goddess Contrapoints has to say about such things in her inimitable mix of trash glam and sharp thinking, e.g.:

knewspeak

@Svetlovska said:
@knewspeak

What, you mean ‘do the research?’ Take the red pill? All that? Frankly, who has got the time? Or the interest? To debate with people who think ‘research’ means Googling five other people on the interweb who agree with them? Opinions are like arseholes. Everyone’s got one…

All those qualifications, then you can’t be arsed, what hope for us all.

@Pandan that piece you linked highlights the MSM bias completely. Thanks for your donation or pledge.

Svetlovska

I’ll tell you what. I’ll stay up all day and night debating, because I have it, on very good authority, that there is still someone on the internet who is wrong, and it is my self appointed task to fix that. Oh, what was that phrase now? Oh yes:

“We’ve had enough of experts.”

Because, you know. Opinions. Arseholes.

Here’s a scary thought. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. But not every opinion has equal value.

I’d rather my local nuclear power station is administered by someone with relevant degrees, rather than an opinion about which switches to throw. YMMV.

Krupa

@Svetlovska said:
I’ll tell you what. I’ll stay up all day and night debating, because I have it, on very good authority, that there is still someone on the internet who is wrong, and it is my self appointed task to fix that. Oh, what was that phrase now? Oh yes:

“We’ve had enough of experts.”

Because, you know. Opinions. Arseholes.

Here’s a scary thought. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. But not every opinion has equal value.

I’d rather my local nuclear power station is administered by someone with relevant degrees, rather than an opinion about which switches to throw. YMMV.

For sure, and that goes for most, if not all important decisions made about our lives. Gets tricky with economics and other complex things but I guess that’s the dividing line with politics that’s hard to balance…

Nice one for the Pomo video, she’s hilarious and is actually making philosophy palatable on a hot day 😁

Pandan

@knewspeak said:

@Svetlovska said:
@knewspeak

@Pandan that piece you linked highlights the MSM bias completely. Thanks for your donation or pledge.

Ah yes the good old “everything that I don’t agree with is MSM bias” trope. K bye

knewspeak

@Svetlovska said:
I’ll tell you what. I’ll stay up all day and night debating, because I have it, on very good authority, that there is still someone on the internet who is wrong, and it is my self appointed task to fix that. Oh, what was that phrase now? Oh yes:

“We’ve had enough of experts.”

Because, you know. Opinions. Arseholes.

That’s your decision, but my worry, is about people in my area, now working their sock’s off, more than ever, just trying to make end’s meet, even lacking sleep, worrying about how to do this. Maybe this is your circumstance too.

knewspeak

@Pandan said:

@knewspeak said:

@Svetlovska said:
@knewspeak

@Pandan that piece you linked highlights the MSM bias completely. Thanks for your donation or pledge.

Ah yes the good old “everything that I don’t agree with is MSM bias” trope. K bye

I could rip that article to shreds, so you can’t defame someone if you don’t name them? what utter rubbish. It’s just so misleading, the Jury reached the verdict, regardless of public opinion.

Pandan

@knewspeak said:

@Pandan said:

@knewspeak said:

@Svetlovska said:
@knewspeak

@Pandan that piece you linked highlights the MSM bias completely. Thanks for your donation or pledge.

Ah yes the good old “everything that I don’t agree with is MSM bias” trope. K bye

I could rip that article to shreds, so you can’t defame someone if you don’t name them? what utter rubbish. It’s just so misleading, the Jury reached the verdict, regardless of public opinion.

Like I said, I’m not interested in the trial itself, which again, is not good evidence of any counterfactual to what the conversation’s been about. You saw espiegel123’s mention of Right-wing extremism and took it as an opportunity to bring up your “MSM supports one side in this trial and is absurd” stance like that invalidates what he said and I called that out with a piece that provides examples of Right-wing extremists poisoning the discourse around that trial, not to mention harassment of certain people involved. So putting aside the stuff about the trial itself, and these points from that piece stand:

It might’ve been alright if the Depp-Heard trial was just a spectacle. But it’s not — it’s a turning point for the narratives around masculinity, victimization, “social justice” and the call to “believe women.” And it’s coming into focus how the nasty rhetoric of the case represents a big step backward for survivors in the future.
You wouldn’t know it from the noise, though. The Depp fans are ready to cheer, and their cries will ring regardless of the verdict.

Tear up the piece all you want regarding the trial itself, just don’t do it in this thread because I think you’ve missed the point and ironically just demonstrating the kind of bad faith arguing, polarization, rhetoric, and other things that’s what was actually being talked about; this other stuff you’re doing is pulling a thread in the kind of direction that got discussions closed by a certain banned member, using similar rhetorical tone, an instance of which is what led to this wider discussion in the first place.

Basically we’re talking about how to avoid playing this game and instead you’re over here lining up your game pieces for a match. Sorry, but not happening with me. Take care.

gusgranite

I bet this is the last time @Tarekith says thank you for anything…

Krupa

I thought peace had broken out everywhere, lasted about 48 hours 🙃

AudioGus

knewspeak

@Pandan said:

@knewspeak said:

@Pandan said:

@knewspeak said:

@Svetlovska said:
@knewspeak

@Pandan that piece you linked highlights the MSM bias completely. Thanks for your donation or pledge.

Ah yes the good old “everything that I don’t agree with is MSM bias” trope. K bye

I could rip that article to shreds, so you can’t defame someone if you don’t name them? what utter rubbish. It’s just so misleading, the Jury reached the verdict, regardless of public opinion.

Like I said, I’m not interested in the trial itself, which again, is not good evidence of any counterfactual to what the conversation’s been about. You saw espiegel123’s mention of Right-wing extremism and took it as an opportunity to bring up your “MSM supports one side in this trial and is absurd” stance like that invalidates what he said and I called that out with a piece that provides examples of Right-wing extremists poisoning the discourse around that trial, not to mention harassment of certain people involved. So putting aside the stuff about the trial itself, and these points from that piece stand:

It might’ve been alright if the Depp-Heard trial was just a spectacle. But it’s not — it’s a turning point for the narratives around masculinity, victimization, “social justice” and the call to “believe women.” And it’s coming into focus how the nasty rhetoric of the case represents a big step backward for survivors in the future.
You wouldn’t know it from the noise, though. The Depp fans are ready to cheer, and their cries will ring regardless of the verdict.

Tear up the piece all you want regarding the trial itself, just don’t do it in this thread because I think you’ve missed the point and ironically just demonstrating the kind of bad faith arguing, polarization, rhetoric, and other things that’s what was actually being talked about; this other stuff you’re doing is pulling a thread in the kind of direction that got discussions closed by a certain banned member, using similar rhetorical tone, an instance of which is what led to this wider discussion in the first place.

Basically we’re talking about how to avoid playing this game and instead you’re over here lining up your game pieces for a match. Sorry, but not happening with me. Take care.

Don’t worry everyone I won’t shred it, it may spoil too many peoples delusions. In regard to MSM being factual and not misleading that is.

Tarekith

@gusgranite said:
I bet this is the last time @Tarekith says thank you for anything…

😂😂😂😂

knewspeak

@Krupa said:
I thought peace had broken out everywhere, lasted about 48 hours 🙃

Shades of Cage’s 4’33

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Pandan

@Krupa said:
I thought peace had broken out everywhere, lasted about 48 hours 🙃

Peace doesn’t have to mean there can’t be discussions that even involve arguing. Or walking away from an argument if limits of good faith have been reached. I think it unfortunate that Neum was so successful getting threads shut down because, to me, that incentivized him doing it over and over to otherwise mostly civil threads that he didn’t like, at least until he finally got banned. People should be able to argue different sides in a thread and at the same time that thread doesn’t have to look like it’s absolute chaos.

People look at political threads and they think it it can only be the latter. Similarly people don’t want to talk politics in person or worse, don’t want to participate in democracy and elections because the chaos of previous experiences soured them to it. That’s not the fault of political discussion or arguments, but that of people who do them badly. In a web forum, those sowers of chaos should be culled, not the whole discussions themselves. Unless the moderators just aren’t equipped or bountiful enough to deal with them, which I get and wouldn’t disbelieve if that is the case for this forum given that this forum is not the main job of said moderators of course.

Krupa

@Pandan said:

@Krupa said:
I thought peace had broken out everywhere, lasted about 48 hours 🙃

Peace doesn’t have to mean there can’t be discussions that even involve arguing. Or walking away from an argument if limits of good faith have been reached. I think it unfortunate that Neum was so successful getting threads shut down because, to me, that incentivized him doing it over and over to otherwise mostly civil threads that he didn’t like, at least until he finally got banned. People should be able to argue different sides in a thread and at the same time that thread doesn’t have to look like it’s absolute chaos.

People look at political threads and they think it it can only be the latter. Similarly people don’t want to talk politics in person or worse, don’t want to participate in democracy and elections because the chaos of previous experiences soured them to it. That’s not the fault of political discussion or arguments, but that of people who do them badly. In a web forum, those sowers of chaos should be culled, not the whole discussions themselves. Unless the moderators just aren’t equipped or bountiful enough to deal with them, which I get and wouldn’t disbelieve if that is the case for this forum given that this forum is not the main job of said moderators of course.

Well said 👍

BiancaNeve

@Svetlovska said:
I’ll tell you what. I’ll stay up all day and night debating, because I have it, on very good authority, that there is still someone on the internet who is wrong, and it is my self appointed task to fix that. Oh, what was that phrase now? Oh yes:

“We’ve had enough of experts.”

Because, you know. Opinions. Arseholes.

Here’s a scary thought. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. But not every opinion has equal value.

I’d rather my local nuclear power station is administered by someone with relevant degrees, rather than an opinion about which switches to throw. YMMV.

I know an individual whose career was to know which switches to throw - no degrees required. Theoretical knowledge is often no substitute for practical experience and specific expertise.

Svetlovska

@BiancaNeve : 1) are you perhaps familiar with the concept of ‘metaphor’? (Also: I’d be astounded if the station director- ‘administered by’ - hasn’t got relevant professional or technical qualifications) 2) key word: expertise. Your friend, who knows what they are doing in the field, or me, randomly flipping switches? The point, reiterated because it seems it wasn’t understood first time round: not all opinions are equal.

….aaaand I’m out of this thread. Have fun, kids.

AlexY

What you don’t want is someone who refuses to throw the switches because he doesn’t believe the science that says nuclear meltdowns are bad (or the MSM who reports such facts)

Krupa

Nuclear sea lions 😬

knewspeak

@AlexY said:
What you don’t want is someone who refuses to throw the switches because he doesn’t believe the science that says nuclear meltdowns are bad (or the MSM who reports such facts)

It’s not Homer Simpson is it?

AlexY

Homer sleeps on the job which is just as dangerous