The term “soundscape” really bothers me.

sevenape

I tell you what, I have no problems with most music genre names but the one I really can’t stand is “soundscape”. I dunno why… it just sounds lazy and pompous I guess. YouTubers going on about “ambient soundscapes” just make me think of Gabe from the office.

Gavinski

Hahahaha, those are funny clips. I think the problem is that the word ambient is a hard one to use without getting the ambient purists angry if you're doing something that is not backgroundy enough. I personally have no issues with the use of the word soundscape, or with very loose uses of the word ambient.

sevenape

@Gavinski said:
Hahahaha, those are funny clips. I think the problem is that the word ambient is a hard one to use without getting the ambient purists angry if you're doing something that is not backgroundy enough. I personally have no issues with the use of the word soundscape, or with very loose uses of the word ambient.

Oh man those ambient gatekeepers piss me off. It’s just another pissing contest about who knows more… just like it became with post rock a few years ago. It’s hilarious that people can get so angry and aggressive over ambient music, seems to defeat the purpose somewhat

robosardine

You have to call it something. What else would you call it? 🤔😃

sevenape

And yeah I’m all for the loose umbrella term of ambient…

Gavinski

I'm definitely gonna have to stick out a vid labelled ambient soundscape in the next few days just for shits n giggles

sevenape

@robosardine said:
You have to call it something. What else would you call it? 🤔😃

Ambient. Cut the soundscape off. Ambient has always worked for me.

I also like it cos the basic idea is that it can be background music or you can focus if you like… “soundscape” is too much like “I’m gonna force you to be transported to my imaginary world man”

sevenape

@Gavinski said:
I'm definitely gonna have to stick out a vid labelled ambient soundscape in the next few days just for shits n giggles

Hahaha

lasselu

I guess we'll have to come up with a new name then...
"Audiobus music"?
Just kidding...

sevenape

@lasselu said:
I guess we'll have to come up with a new name then...
"Audiobus music"?
Just kidding...

Hahahahah I’d like it better

bygjohn

I don’t really have a problem with “soundscape”, I think it’s reasonably accurate. But I think you can get really hung up on genre naming, sometimes to the point of lunacy. For example, I recall seeing some spat on YouTube about whether a track was “brutal slamming death metal” or “grindcore” (or something like that). Plainly neither description was very helpful as people couldn’t agree on what was what…

Metal and dance seem particularly prone to spawning subgenres exponentially, and you could waste a lifetime fretting about it. I lose interest extremely quickly, TBH. Which is odd, as I used to be a librarian, and classifying things was part of the deal. But always a compromise, so maybe that’s why I don’t find the nitpicking helpful. These are supposed to be broadly helpful descriptions, not straightjackets for creativity, or subtle put downs, for that matter.

Ambient seems to be a much abused term (especially when tacked onto genres, eg “ambient house” etc), and actually anything could be classed as ambient depending on how it’s used by the listener. Or just playback volume. Eno first used it to describe music played so quietly that half the time it dropped into inaudibility. If you start trying to use the term based on style/tempo/production method, then you could argue the likes of Sunn o))) are ambient, just extremely loud ambient!

jolico

RC helicopter enthusiasts took “Drone” from us.

PhilW

Just make the music you want to make, it doesn’t matter what it is called.

[Deleted User]

@sevenape said:
I tell you what, I have no problems with most music genre names but the one I really can’t stand is “soundscape”. I dunno why… it just sounds lazy and pompous I guess. YouTubers going on about “ambient soundscapes” just make me think of Gabe from the office.

I prefer to use the term 'sound art', for my music, as it pisses even more people off.

jwmmakerofmusic

Would you call a painter using the term "landscape" as pompous and lazy? There's nothing wrong with a word that's been used for decades to describe a type of Ambient.

EDIT: I use the term "soundscape" loosely to describe the more "atmospheric" and "atonal" sfx-type Ambient I produce whereas I use the term "melodic" to describe the more tonal Ambient I produce.

robosardine

I’m quite good at Fartscapes, even in large halls …. not sure if that helps.

telecharge

@sevenape said:

@lasselu said:
I guess we'll have to come up with a new name then...
"Audiobus music"?
Just kidding...

Hahahahah I’d like it better

I would suggest iPad music. You know, because of the pads?

I'll get me coat.

lasselu

@monz0id said:

I prefer to use the term 'sound art', for my music, as it pisses even more people off.

I'm gonna steal that...

sevenape

@robosardine said:
I’m quite good at Fartscapes, even in large halls …. not sure if that helps.

I’ve been hav8ng some problems myself this morning

sevenape

@jwmmakerofmusic said:
Would you call a painter using the term "landscape" as pompous and lazy? There's nothing wrong with a word that's been used for decades to describe a type of Ambient.

EDIT: I use the term "soundscape" loosely to describe the more "atmospheric" and "atonal" sfx-type Ambient I produce whereas I use the term "melodic" to describe the more tonal Ambient I produce.

No but a landscape is quite obviously what it is… soundscape was originally coined to refer to field recordings afaik…

But no offense meant… It’s just one of those things. I just refer to everything as a song or sometimes even just a “thing”. I dunno, I grew up in rural Berkshire, there are many things I don’t understand

sevenape

@PhilW said:
Just make the music you want to make, it doesn’t matter what it is called.

Nonononono making music always comes second to moaning about it

Svetlovska

Foucault had interesting insights on how any grouping inherently contains within it the seeds of its’ own inevitable splitting into further groupings, what he called ‘dividing practices’, as addressed in his book ‘The Subject and Power’ :”…The subject is either divided inside himself or divided from others. This process objectivizes him. Examples are the mad and the sane, the sick and the healthy, the criminals and the “good boys”…”

Personally, I think the word ‘soundscape’ has some utility for someone like me, operating not as a musician (lacking that talent), but attempting through music-adjacent practices to create a sonic picture or impression of an emotional mood or setting. Soundscape in this limited very specific sense seems to directly capture not only what I am doing, but also sets an aesthetic bar for judging its’ success. Is a mood or sense impression conveyed, and is that impression broadly that intended by the creator? If yes, the piece has succeeded on it’s own terms.

I find this a useful self-referential tool.

sevenape

@bygjohn said:
I don’t really have a problem with “soundscape”, I think it’s reasonably accurate. But I think you can get really hung up on genre naming, sometimes to the point of lunacy. For example, I recall seeing some spat on YouTube about whether a track was “brutal slamming death metal” or “grindcore” (or something like that). Plainly neither description was very helpful as people couldn’t agree on what was what…

Metal and dance seem particularly prone to spawning subgenres exponentially, and you could waste a lifetime fretting about it. I lose interest extremely quickly, TBH. Which is odd, as I used to be a librarian, and classifying things was part of the deal. But always a compromise, so maybe that’s why I don’t find the nitpicking helpful. These are supposed to be broadly helpful descriptions, not straightjackets for creativity, or subtle put downs, for that matter.

Ambient seems to be a much abused term (especially when tacked onto genres, eg “ambient house” etc), and actually anything could be classed as ambient depending on how it’s used by the listener. Or just playback volume. Eno first used it to describe music played so quietly that half the time it dropped into inaudibility. If you start trying to use the term based on style/tempo/production method, then you could argue the likes of Sunn o))) are ambient, just extremely loud ambient!

You are so right! Personally I love depressive post black metal!

Actually I agree about massive drones being ambient too! Crank up basinski and you are almost at some kind of Swans territory I guess… my whole worldview is falling apart!

Hmm… but if someone posted something abrasive and largely Beatless and called it ambient I wouldn’t bat an eyelid… you could call tycho ambient edm and that would be fine, it’s just soundscape that I find offensive! And I’m not sure why… unless you rely heavily on field recordings I find it disingenuous.

Still each to their own!!!

michael_m

When I listen to something that fits this style of music my wife calls it “what the f**k are you listening to?”

Does that help?

sevenape

@Svetlovska said:
Foucault had interesting insights on how any grouping inherently contains within it the seeds of its’ own inevitable splitting into further groupings, what he called ‘dividing practices’, as addressed in his book ‘The Subject and Power’ :”…The subject is either divided inside himself or divided from others. This process objectivizes him. Examples are the mad and the sane, the sick and the healthy, the criminals and the “good boys”…”

Personally, I think the word ‘soundscape’ has some utility for someone like me, operating not as a musician (lacking that talent), but attempting through music-adjacent practices to create a sonic picture or impression of an emotional mood or setting. Soundscape in this limited very specific sense seems to directly capture not only what I am doing, but also sets an aesthetic bar for judging its’ success. Is a mood or sense impression conveyed, and is that impression broadly that intended by the creator? If yes, the piece has succeeded on it’s own terms.

I find this a useful self-referential tool.

I’m also not a musician and mostly use sampled loops and things to try and make a mood or to recapture the feeling of a moment or something, but then I think that’s what most of the music I listen to tries to do too, but for me the term soundscape is too large, to wide, too all encompassing, I make my music for myself, and it’s much more about the internal than the external. I’m not trying to create worlds, but express how I feel…

Hmm now you got me thinking about this seriously

sevenape

@michael_m said:
When I listen to something that fits this style of music my wife calls it “what the f**k are you listening to?”

Does that help?

Hahaha yes. My wife allows it in very specific situations. Driving on a rainy or foggy autumnal day is allowed. Anything else is not.

michael_m

@sevenape said:

@michael_m said:
When I listen to something that fits this style of music my wife calls it “what the f**k are you listening to?”

Does that help?

Hahaha yes. My wife allows it in very specific situations. Driving on a rainy or foggy autumnal day is allowed. Anything else is not.

Ditto. My wife listens to a lot of chart music, so she’s not that appreciative of anything without a 4 on the floor.

sevenape

@michael_m said:

@sevenape said:

@michael_m said:
When I listen to something that fits this style of music my wife calls it “what the f**k are you listening to?”

Does that help?

Hahaha yes. My wife allows it in very specific situations. Driving on a rainy or foggy autumnal day is allowed. Anything else is not.

Ditto. My wife listens to a lot of chart music, so she’s not that appreciative of anything without a 4 on the floor.

Sad high five

Gavinski

@sevenape said:

@Svetlovska said:
Foucault had interesting insights on how any grouping inherently contains within it the seeds of its’ own inevitable splitting into further groupings, what he called ‘dividing practices’, as addressed in his book ‘The Subject and Power’ :”…The subject is either divided inside himself or divided from others. This process objectivizes him. Examples are the mad and the sane, the sick and the healthy, the criminals and the “good boys”…”

Personally, I think the word ‘soundscape’ has some utility for someone like me, operating not as a musician (lacking that talent), but attempting through music-adjacent practices to create a sonic picture or impression of an emotional mood or setting. Soundscape in this limited very specific sense seems to directly capture not only what I am doing, but also sets an aesthetic bar for judging its’ success. Is a mood or sense impression conveyed, and is that impression broadly that intended by the creator? If yes, the piece has succeeded on it’s own terms.

I find this a useful self-referential tool.

I’m also not a musician and mostly use sampled loops and things to try and make a mood or to recapture the feeling of a moment or something, but then I think that’s what most of the music I listen to tries to do too, but for me the term soundscape is too large, to wide, too all encompassing, I make my music for myself, and it’s much more about the internal than the external. I’m not trying to create worlds, but express how I feel…

Hmm now you got me thinking about this seriously

This made me think of minimalist (he hates that term but that's who he gets lumped in with) composer Charlemagne Palestine. I remember in a podcast with him one time he talked about how the last thing he wants to do with his music is make people 'feel' something. I increasingly find myself drawn to music that is interesting sonically and not trying to create or evoke certain emotions. I'll see if I can find a link to it later. I guess a lot of music that gets called 'experimental' fits into this category, even if a lot of it is derivative of stuff that was really only truly experimental 60 or 70 years ago.

sevenape

That’s very interesting I’d love to hear it…. I read a thing years ago that said when are young we look for music for the feeling it gives us, and as we age we are more interested in the “quality” or technicality,I mean this explains why otherwise sane people get into jazz as they get older, but I’m 47! Maybe I’m just a very late developer!

I like the term experimental to refer to the process, like if you’re just fiddling about discovering things. I guess there’s not much new to actually experiment with !?

Gavinski

[AIR Podcast] AIR 040 / Charlemagne Palestine #airPodcast
https://podcastaddict.com/episode/131891124 via @PodcastAddict

Pretty sure this is it. We're the same age by the way, funnily enough. I do still sometimes enjoy listening to 'proper songs' as a friend's dad refers to them (he meant Sinatra etc). I'll happily put on Young Americans full blast and dance around the house to it 😁.