The term “soundscape” really bothers me.

Svetlovska

@Gavinski : interesting perspective. Though I’d argue that striving to not communicate any feeling is a doomed task, because a) music is inevitably a dialogue between artist and audience, and the artist can only control their side of the conversation, there is no way of ensuring that message sent is message received ; and b) to strive to not communicate a feeling, is still a communication, of - an absence?

You’ll note the solipsism of my position, btw. My attempt to evoke/create/invoke an aural soundscape exists in the absence of an audience. The yardstick is my own, it is against this I must measure myself, win or lose, since I am the only audience and critic I can be sure of.

External feedback after the fact of creation is very, very welcome. But by then the creation has already happened, any validation ancillary to the work, and I cannot have any control over how it is received - or indeed if it is received at all.

Gavinski

@Svetlovska said:
@Gavinski : interesting perspective. Though I’d argue that striving to not communicate any feeling is a doomed task, because a) music is inevitably a dialogue between artist and audience, and the artist can only control their side of the conversation, there is no way of ensuring that message sent is message received ; and b) to strive to not communicate a feeling, is still a communication, of - an absence?

You’ll note the solipsism of my position, btw. My attempt to evoke/create/invoke an aural soundscape exists in the absence of an audience. The yardstick is my own, it is against this I must measure myself, win or lose, since I am the only audience and critic I can be sure of.

External feedback after the fact of creation is very, very welcome. But by then the creation has already happened, any validation ancillary to the work, and I cannot have any control over how it is received - or indeed if it is received at all.

Nice thoughtful post. But maybe we could agree that there's a difference between striving not to create a feeling, and not striving to create a feeling?

Svetlovska

Ah, chiasmus! I suspect a Jesuit training in your background… a casuistry - based position? Let me counter with : apophasis. But let us not speak of field recordings! A special case of a special case. (though if they are not ‘soundscapes’ what are?)

Poppadocrock

I’m not a huge fan of using genres in general, or putting things in a box, but I realized awhile ago they are absolutely necessary when trying to describe/discuss/analyze something intangible.

Fingolfinzz

It’s using sound to create imagery so it seems like a pretty accurate description

JeffChasteen

@sevenape said:

@Gavinski said:
Hahahaha, those are funny clips. I think the problem is that the word ambient is a hard one to use without getting the ambient purists angry if you're doing something that is not backgroundy enough. I personally have no issues with the use of the word soundscape, or with very loose uses of the word ambient.

Oh man those ambient gatekeepers piss me off. It’s just another pissing contest about who knows more… just like it became with post rock a few years ago. It’s hilarious that people can get so angry and aggressive over ambient music, seems to defeat the purpose somewhat

The petty martinets at r/ambient are some of the most egregious gatekeepers imaginable.

Fingolfinzz

@JeffChasteen said:

@sevenape said:

@Gavinski said:
Hahahaha, those are funny clips. I think the problem is that the word ambient is a hard one to use without getting the ambient purists angry if you're doing something that is not backgroundy enough. I personally have no issues with the use of the word soundscape, or with very loose uses of the word ambient.

Oh man those ambient gatekeepers piss me off. It’s just another pissing contest about who knows more… just like it became with post rock a few years ago. It’s hilarious that people can get so angry and aggressive over ambient music, seems to defeat the purpose somewhat

The petty martinets at r/ambient are some of the most egregious gatekeepers imaginable.

I feel that way about the synth subreddit too lol

Gavinski

@Svetlovska said:
Ah, chiasmus! I suspect a Jesuit training in your background… a casuistry - based position? Let me counter with : apophasis. But let us not speak of field recordings! A special case of a special case. (though if they are not ‘soundscapes’ what are?)

Ah, well spotted.... Not quite Jesuit but I do have some training in Scholastic Philosophy 😂

TheOriginalPaulB

@sevenape said:

@michael_m said:

@sevenape said:

@michael_m said:
When I listen to something that fits this style of music my wife calls it “what the f**k are you listening to?”

Does that help?

Hahaha yes. My wife allows it in very specific situations. Driving on a rainy or foggy autumnal day is allowed. Anything else is not.

Ditto. My wife listens to a lot of chart music, so she’s not that appreciative of anything without a 4 on the floor.

Sad high five

I’d probably quite enjoy a sad high five over a 4 on the floor, but then I’m into weird rhythms.

By the way, there’s plenty of music that was intended to communicate a particular emotion that spectacularly failed to do so. Anything intended to lift and energise the audience usually annoys the crap out of me. I’d say that’s a failure to communicate.

Gavinski

@TheOriginalPaulB said:

@sevenape said:

@michael_m said:

@sevenape said:

@michael_m said:
When I listen to something that fits this style of music my wife calls it “what the f**k are you listening to?”

Does that help?

Hahaha yes. My wife allows it in very specific situations. Driving on a rainy or foggy autumnal day is allowed. Anything else is not.

Ditto. My wife listens to a lot of chart music, so she’s not that appreciative of anything without a 4 on the floor.

Sad high five

I’d probably quite enjoy a sad high five over a 4 on the floor, but then I’m into weird rhythms.

By the way, there’s plenty of music that was intended to communicate a particular emotion that spectacularly failed to do so. Anything intended to lift and energise the audience usually annoys the crap out of me. I’d say that’s a failure to communicate.

I can think of plenty that work for me

This makes you want to go clubbing:

This one makes you want to be in a rock n roll band, or just go out and get super drunk with good friends:

This one makes me want to take shrooms:

A perfect invocation of grief / yearning:

TheOriginalPaulB

Not saying that music doesn’t communicate emotion, just that it doesn’t ALWAYS communicate the intended emotion. If you speak Japanese to a Japanese speaking person, you have communication. If you speak it to me, there’d be no communication at all. Both sender and receiver have to be compatible for it to work.

Gavinski

@TheOriginalPaulB said:
Not saying that music doesn’t communicate emotion, just that it doesn’t ALWAYS communicate the intended emotion. If you speak Japanese to a Japanese speaking person, you have communication. If you speak it to me, there’d be no communication at all. Both sender and receiver have to be compatible for it to work.

For sure. I think the biggest factor is taste, which - for me - is something people try to rationalise but which is mostly based on many subconscious / personal life history factors.

There are many stories I could tell about how my own musical taste was shaped in these ways, but it's getting late here 😁

db909

Lol some funny responses in this thread. Put me down for calling it “AudioBus Forum Music” lol. All kidding aside though, I always took the term soundscape to mean something more atonal and less musical than just ambient, which makes me expect some sort of harmony to create a background vibe. But yeah who cares really

id_23

Chillscapes lol!
Or even better
Noisescapes
Better still...
Sonic textural explorations
(TM)
😉

JeffChasteen

@Fingolfinzz said:

@JeffChasteen said:

@sevenape said:

@Gavinski said:
Hahahaha, those are funny clips. I think the problem is that the word ambient is a hard one to use without getting the ambient purists angry if you're doing something that is not backgroundy enough. I personally have no issues with the use of the word soundscape, or with very loose uses of the word ambient.

Oh man those ambient gatekeepers piss me off. It’s just another pissing contest about who knows more… just like it became with post rock a few years ago. It’s hilarious that people can get so angry and aggressive over ambient music, seems to defeat the purpose somewhat

The petty martinets at r/ambient are some of the most egregious gatekeepers imaginable.

I feel that way about the synth subreddit too lol

I have to agree with you about the synth subreddit.

However, I must confess that r/synthcirclejerk is a guilty pleasure.

JeffChasteen

But “The genre created by Erik Satie and people attribute to Brian Eno who characteristically fails to disabuse them of that notion” is a bit unwieldy, isn’t it?

NeuM

How about the word "musical furniture" instead?

JeffChasteen

@NeuM said:
How about the word "musical furniture" instead?

Works for me (and Erik)

Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr

@Gavinski said:
[AIR Podcast] AIR 040 / Charlemagne Palestine #airPodcast
https://podcastaddict.com/episode/131891124 via @PodcastAddict

Pretty sure this is it. We're the same age by the way, funnily enough. I do still sometimes enjoy listening to 'proper songs' as a friend's dad refers to them (he meant Sinatra etc). I'll happily put on Young Americans full blast and dance around the house to it 😁.

Sinatra is dance music to me. I can’t think of any other jazz singer with a deeper groove. Just the first song that came to mind

LinearLineman

I usually call my music “stuff”. Sometimes I think of it as improvised stuff. All the subs fit into that bag of stuff.

I’m not saying others should think that way, though I often think of the music of others as “their stuff”.

Fingolfinzz

@JeffChasteen said:

@Fingolfinzz said:

@JeffChasteen said:

@sevenape said:

@Gavinski said:
Hahahaha, those are funny clips. I think the problem is that the word ambient is a hard one to use without getting the ambient purists angry if you're doing something that is not backgroundy enough. I personally have no issues with the use of the word soundscape, or with very loose uses of the word ambient.

Oh man those ambient gatekeepers piss me off. It’s just another pissing contest about who knows more… just like it became with post rock a few years ago. It’s hilarious that people can get so angry and aggressive over ambient music, seems to defeat the purpose somewhat

The petty martinets at r/ambient are some of the most egregious gatekeepers imaginable.

I feel that way about the synth subreddit too lol

I have to agree with you about the synth subreddit.

However, I must confess that r/synthcirclejerk is a guilty pleasure.

I’m with you there, those posts crack me up cos it’s usually a repost of something I rolled my eyes at super hard on the synth sub haha

jwmmakerofmusic

@sevenape said:

@jwmmakerofmusic said:
Would you call a painter using the term "landscape" as pompous and lazy? There's nothing wrong with a word that's been used for decades to describe a type of Ambient.

EDIT: I use the term "soundscape" loosely to describe the more "atmospheric" and "atonal" sfx-type Ambient I produce whereas I use the term "melodic" to describe the more tonal Ambient I produce.

No but a landscape is quite obviously what it is… soundscape was originally coined to refer to field recordings afaik…

But no offense meant… It’s just one of those things. I just refer to everything as a song or sometimes even just a “thing”. I dunno, I grew up in rural Berkshire, there are many things I don’t understand

LOL! I didn't take offense mate. I'm sorry for coming off as snarky and making an arse of myself, lol. I retorted before my morning caffeination and brekky. 🫣

In my mind, a landscape is to visual arts what soundscape is to sonic arts. Basically, both provide a space to exist in for a while, to vibe, or to inspect closely. A landscape painting exists to either be looked at, or to sit in the background to provide an extra touch to a room. Soundscapes are similar in concept and can be listened to with intent, or just put on in the background while doing something else completely.

Then again, the more I thought about it throughout the day, the more I realise "soundscape" is more of a post-modern term, the definition of which is left up to the interpretation of the individual. I gave my definition of what "soundscape" means to me in my previous reply and expanded upon it in this reply, but it's not the "one all, be all" definition either.

jwmmakerofmusic

@id_23 said:
Sonic textural explorations

Welp...that basically sums it up for me. 😂 Doesn't matter if the Ambient is atonal, based on a common scale, atmospheric, calming, chaotic, or what-have-you. Ambient basically consists of sonic textural explorations.

McD

Audio Atmospheres
Sonic Hottubs
Acousticlouds
Aural Earwax

JeffChasteen

@Fingolfinzz said:

@JeffChasteen said:

@Fingolfinzz said:

@JeffChasteen said:

@sevenape said:

@Gavinski said:
Hahahaha, those are funny clips. I think the problem is that the word ambient is a hard one to use without getting the ambient purists angry if you're doing something that is not backgroundy enough. I personally have no issues with the use of the word soundscape, or with very loose uses of the word ambient.

Oh man those ambient gatekeepers piss me off. It’s just another pissing contest about who knows more… just like it became with post rock a few years ago. It’s hilarious that people can get so angry and aggressive over ambient music, seems to defeat the purpose somewhat

The petty martinets at r/ambient are some of the most egregious gatekeepers imaginable.

I feel that way about the synth subreddit too lol

I have to agree with you about the synth subreddit.

However, I must confess that r/synthcirclejerk is a guilty pleasure.

I’m with you there, those posts crack me up cos it’s usually a repost of something I rolled my eyes at super hard on the synth sub haha

I’ve got one posted right now🤣
https://www.reddit.com/r/synthesizercirclejerk/comments/wuaw84/can_i_plug_this_into_my_blueslawyer_boutique_amp/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

Blipsford_Baubie

Words are the problem. Like lawnmowers, there should simply be an icon of a throttle with a tortoise on the slow side and a hare on the fast side to indicate tempo.
The same animals will have different emojis dressed according to genre. The fashion statement of the emoji would allow the music to show how dated it is, allowing it to be more easily distinguishable, especially if the song is lumped under a broad genre that has spanned decades.

bangzero

i suppose if "soundscape" is good enough for Robert Fripp, it's good enough for me. :^) guess you're not a fan of Fripp's later work @sevenape? otoh, i'm a bit annoyed that Eno's term "ambient" has been appropriated for such diverse musics that it has become less meaningful. but hey, they're just words...

Gribs

Textures

Gavinski

@Blipsford_Baubie said:
Words are the problem. Like lawnmowers, there should simply be an icon of a throttle with a tortoise on the slow side and a hare on the fast side to indicate tempo.
The same animals will have different emojis dressed according to genre. The fashion statement of the emoji would allow the music to show how dated it is, allowing it to be more easily distinguishable, especially if the song is lumped under a broad genre that has spanned decades.

Chortletastic 😂

Svetlovska

I like to think I make ‘dark ambient’, but I personally call them my ‘noises’. Which is almost certainly more accurate.