Spring reverb comparison video

Sabicas

@mtenk said:

@Sabicas said:

@mtenk said:

@Sabicas said:
Also> @mtenk said:

Yeah, the THU sounds the most authentic for sure. Not sure what’s going on with the SurfyBear in this example but I know that they can sound better than that. It sounds weirdly thin? I recorded a surf band recently and the lead guitarist had one. That thing definitely DRIPS! Vibey AF

Hmm, it’s sounds pretty great here at the house but I did get some high tinny sounds when picking near the bridge in my video. That’s normal for this guitar and a real spring tank, though. I could roll back the SurfyBear tone control if I do another comparison vid.

You know what, you’re absolutely right @Sabicas. I have no idea WTF I was hearing last night. The SurfyBear sounds totally fine. Thanks for putting this comparison video together! My original comment wasn’t meant to be a slight on your hard work. Hopefully it wasn’t taken that way.

No worries. I didn’t take it as a slight. I’d like to throw another vid together if I have more than just Altispace to add to the others.

MixBox has a spring reverb that you could throw into the mix if you do another video (assuming that it’s available in the free version or you already own it).

Can anyone verify if it’s available in the free version? I’m away from my iPad until later this evening

Sabicas

@Slush said:
I just wonder, how is the quality of the other fx in THU? And which IAP should one buy to get all the fx?

I have the “premium” IAP but haven’t tried all of the effects.

1) reverbs: Good to great
2) tremolo: No complaints.
3) delays: I’ve really only worked with the tape delay and it’s satisfactory but not anything special.
4) fuzz: pretty good.
5) mutron envelope filter: Excellent

Alfred

Eos2 has spring reverb code by valhalla, it is a very nice sounding reverb.

Slush

@Sabicas said:

@Slush said:
I just wonder, how is the quality of the other fx in THU? And which IAP should one buy to get all the fx?

I have the “premium” IAP but haven’t tried all of the effects.

1) reverbs: Good to great
2) tremolo: No complaints.
3) delays: I’ve really only worked with the tape delay and it’s satisfactory but not anything special.
4) fuzz: pretty good.
5) mutron envelope filter: Excellent

Thanks! Btw, no spring in the free Mixbox,

Sabicas

Maybe I can send a sound file to those who have these paid apps so we can compare those too. I can’t do that with the SurfyBear unless it’s possible to re-amp with the Motu M2 by running the monitor outs through the SurfyBear and back into an input.

If there’s enough interest, we can find a way to make it work.

Slush

@rs2000 said:

@espiegel123 said:

@rs2000 said:

@Slush said:

@bygjohn said:
How would you guys rate the Spring reverb in iVCS3? You can use it as an AU on its own, like lots of iVCS3 modules. I’m just thinking that as Peter Zinovieff himself endorsed the app, the reverb must be a reasonable emulation.

I believe it’s IR based as well.

Its sound reminds me of the Eventide somewhat, but less "springy" and a bit more like a delay. Also there's zero adjustment, only a dry/wet mix knob.

An IR reverb will generally be best if that is the only control. Should do a good job of capturing a particular unit at a particular setting. One needs to create IRs with different settings in order to have a range of options.

Works well enough, agreed.
I can recommend this one, quite a nice collection of spring reverb IRs:
Presonus Convology - Vintage Spring Reverbs

Maybe there's also a good free collection of spring reverb impulse responses, I just haven't found one yet.

And https://pasttofuturereverbs.gumroad.com/

mtenk

@Sabicas said:
Maybe I can send a sound file to those who have these paid apps so we can compare those too. I can’t do that with the SurfyBear unless it’s possible to re-amp with the Motu M2 by running the monitor outs through the SurfyBear and back into an input.

If there’s enough interest, we can find a way to make it work.

I could help out with the MixBox one if you want to DM me the file

bygjohn

@espiegel123 said:

@rs2000 said:

@Slush said:

@bygjohn said:
How would you guys rate the Spring reverb in iVCS3? You can use it as an AU on its own, like lots of iVCS3 modules. I’m just thinking that as Peter Zinovieff himself endorsed the app, the reverb must be a reasonable emulation.

I believe it’s IR based as well.

Its sound reminds me of the Eventide somewhat, but less "springy" and a bit more like a delay. Also there's zero adjustment, only a dry/wet mix knob.

An IR reverb will generally be best if that is the only control. Should do a good job of capturing a particular unit at a particular setting. One needs to create IRs with different settings in order to have a range of options.

Interesting. I suppose an IR would make emulating the original simpler. As for the controls, I think those are the same as the original VCS3, as everything else is pretty much identical on the panel.

espiegel123

Here is a comparison of some spring reverb IRs -- apologies for the mediocre guitar playing.

@Sabicas : if you send me your dry audio, I can run it through these.

Sabicas

@espiegel123 said:
Here is a comparison of some spring reverb IRs -- apologies for the mediocre guitar playing.

@Sabicas : if you send me your dry audio, I can run it through these.

Cool. I love that others are interested in nerding out with me on comparing emulations. I wasn’t particularly impressed with any of those IRs, though. I still think the THU emulation is the one to beat.

Also, I like how you set this comparison up by automating it in Loopy Pro. Is it me, or does Loopy Pro’s mixer kinda eliminate the need for AUM? ….at least for audio.

mtenk

@Sabicas I’ve also got access to a Farfisa F/AR hardware unit that I could run it through.

espiegel123

@Sabicas said:

@espiegel123 said:
Here is a comparison of some spring reverb IRs -- apologies for the mediocre guitar playing.

@Sabicas : if you send me your dry audio, I can run it through these.

Cool. I love that others are interested in nerding out with me on comparing emulations. I wasn’t particularly impressed with any of those IRs, though. I still think the THU emulation is the one to beat.

Also, I like how you set this comparison up by automating it in Loopy Pro. Is it me, or does Loopy Pro’s mixer kinda eliminate the need for AUM? ….at least for audio.

re: AUM: since I started using Loopy Pro, about 75% of the time, I am using Loopy Pro as my host. There are occasional setups where AUM is more compact or easier to set up the routing. But mostly I am just using Loopy. It is especially nice because I can customize the control surface with sliders or XY pads that I want to use to control the mix or AU parameters.

pbelgium

Thanks for the comparisons @Sabicas @espiegel123 - good stuff. (I picked up Eventide Spring in the recent sales, surprised about the sound .)

espiegel123

One thing, I notice about IRs is that smsll adjustments to dry/wet balance can have a huge impact on how good/bad things sound. My examples could probably be improved with care.

@Sabicas : if you want, you could send my your dry signal and I could send back totally wet files and you could see if adjusting the balance results in something nice. Since these are commercial IRs, I can’t provide the IRs themselves.

I guess I’ll have to bring my amp (jc-120) in to the house when no one is home and compare to its reverb.

Sabicas

@espiegel123 said:
One thing, I notice about IRs is that smsll adjustments to dry/wet balance can have a huge impact on how good/bad things sound. My examples could probably be improved with care.

@Sabicas : if you want, you could send my your dry signal and I could send back totally wet files and you could see if adjusting the balance results in something nice. Since these are commercial IRs, I can’t provide the IRs themselves.

I guess I’ll have to bring my amp (jc-120) in to the house when no one is home and compare to its reverb.

I might have time to work on this tonight. However, your dry guitar riff would work fine so we could just use that for all testing with the exception of the Surfybear unless i can effectively reamp with my Motu M2.

I think I’ll set up my next comparison in Loopy and try to learn something new. How did you set up Loopy to have a different IR for every clip if all clips are the same color?

espiegel123

@Sabicas said:

@espiegel123 said:
One thing, I notice about IRs is that smsll adjustments to dry/wet balance can have a huge impact on how good/bad things sound. My examples could probably be improved with care.

@Sabicas : if you want, you could send my your dry signal and I could send back totally wet files and you could see if adjusting the balance results in something nice. Since these are commercial IRs, I can’t provide the IRs themselves.

I guess I’ll have to bring my amp (jc-120) in to the house when no one is home and compare to its reverb.

I might have time to work on this tonight. However, your dry guitar riff would work fine so we could just use that for all testing with the exception of the Surfybear unless i can effectively reamp with my Motu M2.

I think I’ll set up my next comparison in Loopy and try to learn something new. How did you set up Loopy to have a different IR for every clip if all clips are the same color?

The loops were recorded wet. I changed the IR used after recording each loop.

How I have things set up is that I recorded the orange loop direct…not even an amp sim. On the orange color channel, I put a bus send. On that bus I put an amp sim (TONEX with a clean Fender setting) followed by THAFKNAR. That bus has every color as a destination. So, when orange plays, it’s output goes to the bus and that output is recorded.

So, I would choose an IR, prime a loop to record with Auto-Count out and master cycle set to the length of the orange loop. I had tail recording on also. When I pressed play, the orange loop would play and the tapped blue loop would record the bus signal (amp plus reverb).

I manually changed the selected IR after each loop recording.

Sabicas

@espiegel123 said:

@Sabicas said:

@espiegel123 said:
One thing, I notice about IRs is that smsll adjustments to dry/wet balance can have a huge impact on how good/bad things sound. My examples could probably be improved with care.

@Sabicas : if you want, you could send my your dry signal and I could send back totally wet files and you could see if adjusting the balance results in something nice. Since these are commercial IRs, I can’t provide the IRs themselves.

I guess I’ll have to bring my amp (jc-120) in to the house when no one is home and compare to its reverb.

I might have time to work on this tonight. However, your dry guitar riff would work fine so we could just use that for all testing with the exception of the Surfybear unless i can effectively reamp with my Motu M2.

I think I’ll set up my next comparison in Loopy and try to learn something new. How did you set up Loopy to have a different IR for every clip if all clips are the same color?

The loops were recorded wet. I changed the IR used after recording each loop.

How I have things set up is that I recorded the orange loop direct…not even an amp sim. On the orange color channel, I put a bus send. On that bus I put an amp sim (TONEX with a clean Fender setting) followed by THAFKNAR. That bus has every color as a destination. So, when orange plays, it’s output goes to the bus and that output is recorded.

So, I would choose an IR, prime a loop to record with Auto-Count out and master cycle set to the length of the orange loop. I had tail recording on also. When I pressed play, the orange loop would play and the tapped blue loop would record the bus signal (amp plus reverb).

I manually changed the selected IR after each loop recording.

Understood. Something to note is that you have your IRs after the amp sim where my tests were all before the amp. The Surfybear is meant to be used that way like the old Fender outboard units. Pre vs post is a significantly different sound.

espiegel123

@Sabicas : I can re-do the tests with the reverb first. I would have thought that with a clean signal that the order (in digital land) wouldn't matter but that assumption is worth testing. For hardware, the physics of electrical circuits often dictates order (i.e. reverb before the amp because an amp has the wrong signal level for a an effect to receive).

For anyone unclear on my description, here is a picture of the mixer setup

espiegel123

Did a quick test. The order does make a difference. So, I guess I should do a different test maybe, @Sabicas and run the unamped loop through the IRs without an amp. Then set up an amp on the Master. I'll set it up with a knob to control dry/wet balance to control the balance between the direct loop and the IR only loop.

espiegel123

@Sabicas . I created a loopy pro project that has the raw loop in orange and 100% wet loops in blue with a slider to adjust the balance. TONEX is on the master bus...replace with the sim of your choice.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/685dee9c414sb8v/spring reverb compare version 2 playback.zip?dl=0

espiegel123

Quick video demoing the project

Sabicas

@espiegel123 I downloaded and opened your template, but I wanted to try to create my own setup to further my understanding of LP. I’ve started simple. A dry loop (orange) that feeds into a blue loop after passing through an effect. Looking at my screenshot, if I tap on a blue loop it will immediately start recording and everything is working as I expect…..except the orange loop ends and the blue won’t stop with it. It just keeps recording. I feel like I’ve tried all the settings on the blue loops but am failing. The only thing that I’ve been able to get to work is the audio threshold, but that doesn’t stop and start at exactly the right moments. I figure you have a better method.

After I figure this out and create clips of various emulations, I’m going to move to IRs and try to set up a mixing control like you have in your template.

Montreal_Music

@Sabicas said:
In the “IOS sales” thread, we were briefly discussing the different spring reverb emulations available on IOS. I criticized the Eventide emulation so I thought I’d make a comparison video with various emulations that were discussed as well as genuine outboard analog spring reverb tank made by SurfyBear for reference.

I’m using a Jerry Jones baritone guitar routed to a final instance of THU using Fender Bassman model

1) dry
2) SurfyBear - outboard analog spring reverb tank
3) THU - spring reverb with no other emulation enabled
4) Eventide Spring
5) TONEX Spring with no other emulation enabled.
6) Return to SurfyBear for reference

Opinions appreciated. I’ll offer my own. They all sound passable as far as decay. It’s when you look closer at the attack, which can be emphasized by palm muting, where the differences can be appreciated. That’s where it becomes apparent that one model, in particular, is using a bizzarely inaccurate delay which makes it unusable.

THU wins.

How much cost this reverb? Maybe I should install THU.

espiegel123

@Sabicas said:
@espiegel123 I downloaded and opened your template, but I wanted to try to create my own setup to further my understanding of LP. I’ve started simple. A dry loop (orange) that feeds into a blue loop after passing through an effect. Looking at my screenshot, if I tap on a blue loop it will immediately start recording and everything is working as I expect…..except the orange loop ends and the blue won’t stop with it. It just keeps recording. I feel like I’ve tried all the settings on the blue loops but am failing. The only thing that I’ve been able to get to work is the audio threshold, but that doesn’t stop and start at exactly the right moments. I figure you have a better method.

After I figure this out and create clips of various emulations, I’m going to move to IRs and try to set up a mixing control like you have in your template.

@Sabicas : I recommend studying the settings in my project. I think you probably didn’t turn on auto count out and/or have not set the master cycle length to the number of bars to record. If you turn in auto count out recording will stop automatically.

espiegel123

What do you have as your record count-in/out?

For this case, I also use wait for playback so that I can arm everything rather than have recording start as soon as I touch the donut.

Sabicas

@espiegel123 said:
What do you have as your record count-in/out?

For this case, I also use wait for playback so that I can arm everything rather than have recording start as soon as I touch the donut.

If I look at the Orange settings, I have count In/out Quantization set to “Master”. Same for Blue

Orange play/stop quantization = none.
Blue = loop

Is that what you are asking?

espiegel123

@Sabicas said:

@espiegel123 said:
What do you have as your record count-in/out?

For this case, I also use wait for playback so that I can arm everything rather than have recording start as soon as I touch the donut.

If I look at the Orange settings, I have count In/out Quantization set to “Master”. Same for Blue

Orange play/stop quantization = none.
Blue = loop

Is that what you are asking?

What is record count-in and count out and the auto-count out setting?

espiegel123

Also, is master set to the number of bars?

I recommend setting record count in and out to master...loop as a record quantize is mostly for overdubbing.

BroCoast

I think if you are focused on Surfy drip then any emulation/IR is going to be disappointing. There is such a massive difference between your tank and the emulations.

However I find Tonex and Eventide both do a great job of emulating Fender amp reverb when it is not set to such extremes. I actually don’t like the character of THU at all but it does do the closest drip.

Sabicas

Orag> @espiegel123 said:

@Sabicas said:

@espiegel123 said:
What do you have as your record count-in/out?

For this case, I also use wait for playback so that I can arm everything rather than have recording start as soon as I touch the donut.

If I look at the Orange settings, I have count In/out Quantization set to “Master”. Same for Blue

Orange play/stop quantization = none.
Blue = loop

Is that what you are asking?

What is record count-in and count out and the auto-count out setting?

I’m looking and don’t know where to find the first two. “Auto Count Out” is off for Orange and on for Blue.