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The long caravan of AUv3-less apps, why?
I’m wondering about all the ipad synths and effects that don’t support AUv3. I’m perplexed, since so much value seems to be left to rot.
I make a few assumptions. Some of course just seem abandoned. Others, like the retronyms/arturia ones, and maybe some Korg, seem like the AUv3 omission is to protect their own walled garden DAW apps. Or apps like Nave that seem like fun little demos for the desktop-priced desktop versions. But for most, honestly I have no idea.
But still, what it comes down to is that I have limited practical use for half my purchases, and I can’t rationalise buying any more, and these are like half the available apps out there.
Was there a huge codebase shift? Is it too hard to port these things? Or did developers move on?
And probably most importantly, should I expect any of them to update, or should I just write them off, delete them?
Comments
I think the biggest challenge is how to get paid for all the extra work.
I have no doubt that it can be done but at what cost? (Maybe the code base is so old it won’t even compile without a total rewrite).
Free updates to apps released six plus years ago that maybe didn’t sell that much to begin with?
There is no easy solution to this and the most likely outcome is that we have to pay for them again if we‘re lucky to even get an AUV3 capable version.
If we get the AUv3 updates for free then fine, but I don’t expect it to happen…
In most cases, including the Korg apps for example, these apps were created before AUv3 was an option on iOS, when IAA was the way audio apps were meant to work. And porting over to AUv3 simply wasn’t economically worthwhile since there is no straightforward paid upgrade mechanism on the App Store, so the developers would have had to do a lot of work for no reward.
IMO much of the blame lies with Apple. Firstly because they pushed IAA as a way to connect audio apps, which was a terrible solution, and secondly for the way they have set up the App Store which makes it economically unviable for devs to update apps. Without a paid upgrade system devs are expected to just update their apps for free forever, which just means that the App Store becomes a graveyard of abandoned apps.
It's very simple. Economics.
Updating legacy apps developed before AUv3 was introduced and took hold, has very little return on investment for the developers. Existing owners don't have to pay for updates such as this, or at least the App Store makes it difficult to monetize. And yes, it can be a significant amount of work to port an app to AUv3.
You mention Korg. They haven't come out with any new synths for quite some time. I believe their latest was Electribe Wave, and they did do a (feature limited) port for that one. If they did release something new, it would probably be AUv3 compatible. That they haven't released any new apps since 2018 probably says something about the profitability of developing music apps for iOS.
New apps being released without AUv3 capability is becoming more the exception than the rule.
Perhaps developers can explain this to us? @brambos
I suspect, to make a legacy app AUv3 ready is quite an effort beyond just ticking a box in a compiler
Yes. You can find many discussions in the archives. It varies a lot from app to app.
You probably imagine that these apps generate a lot more revenue than they do.
Also, many dev have stated that their app need to be redone mostly from scratch to be converted to Auv3. Not a interesting proposition for free or very small return.
This explains why Korg didn't make more of their apps to be AUv3. Just imagine the amount of work to rewrite iwavestattion for example.
Well... some users are just happy with non-AU versions
I’d pay full price to get some of my favorties as AUv3, and so may others. The devs have no way of knowing the actual prospects for selling updated AUv3 versions of apps. Seems to me a place like the AB Forum would be a good place to have a poll-based thread like “Who will pay full price for Nave with AUv3?” Count me in on that one! And others!
I’m not sure how long @sveinbjorn has been in iOS music production, so I don’t know how to effectively answer the pertinent question of what to do with non-AUv3 app. Please forgive if you already know/do this. What I do is use old apps to generate audio (using AUM & AudioShare naturally) which I use in NS2. If I really like a sound I may create a sample-based preset in Obsidian (synth), but if it is more of a “once off” sorta sound I’ll likely never use again, then I place samples into Slate (sample pads) and then carry on. If a sound isn’t important enough to me to do that extra work, then I feel that I don’t like the sound enough and should find/create something else.
Anyone have others workarounds? IAA?
…,,,,
Devs have a better idea of the market than the overwhelming majority of people here. Not only , do they know what their numbers are, devs speak to each other and share information. Some, like korg have released some AUv3s to test the market.
It is fair to say that if those AUv3 had been hugely lucrative, we would have seen more AUv3 from them already.
The AB forum is not a random sampling of the iOS music market…polls of AB forum members are worthless for accu estimating the market ... some devs of some best selling music apps have shared some numbers in the past… the market isn’t what you think it is.
This
As mentioned in the „How would you use 4 iPads“ thread:
an iConnectAudio4+ (and a simple USB hub) can handle 4 iPads, on 2 of them even apps with no connectivity features at all (by using their headphone output).
Atm I simply send everything to Pro Tools TDM to track or as a hardware fx unit.
(it‘s outdated, no one wants it, but it‘s fast, reliable and dead cheap)
There's no reason non AUv3 apps can't be used if it's worth the little extra trouble to do so. AUM, Loopy Pro, Cubasis, etc can still work with most just fine.
I totally wouldn't expect them to be updated though. A few might, but they'll be the exceptions.
Sure they do. Or at least they should have a pretty good idea based on the original app sales history. They also know more about the return on alternative ways to spend their development efforts. iOS isn't the only game in town, and iOS music apps don't seem to return a lot on investment from everything I've read over several years.
That would be a very skewed sample, IMO. I really don't think the enthusiasts here are representative of the app buying public at large. I've no data to back that up though.
I'll shut up now!
I'm listening to myself talk and rolling my eyes. 😂
Yes, just look at the music app store rankings for any given country - the top music-production-related apps generally bear little resemblance to any stuff we talk about here. Top app in the Chinese Store is a Guzheng emulation with, as far as I can see from the description, zero connectivity.
I’ve found myself mostly noodling in aum. Switching apps is both flow-breaking and crashy.
The gist is, I guess, that ipad music is all over the shop, not as consolidated and uniform as the plugin market on desktop.
I tried using the ipad as a satellite from Ableton, but the combi audio port creates like a 500ms lag, I’ve found no way past that. The idea of using a secondary ios device is interesting, but i’m not sure I want to add even more complexity and setup, i just wanna play.
Ipad stuff should be free and fun and easy.
But I understand why these things are as they are, And I’m thankful for the explanations.
I’d asumed that auv3 could be an in-app purchase, like so many fremium plugins do.
I certainly don’t think it should be free, and in many cases I would buy a new v3 app just for the au.
But its early days yet for ipad music. Daw design for touchscreen is still not there yet. I’m appreciative for what it is, an experimental platform where a lot of the coolest stuff is happening.
I think I’m gonna let go of my desktop thinking and just fuck around more.
Agreed. Finding workarounds is our day job in iOS world
That is the secret to happiness on iOS in a nutshell right there.
I believe or think that the reason why music applications on iOS, daw and auv3 are not seeing or making much profit in app sales, is because most people, especially producers and beatmakers continue to see the iOS platform, as a platform just for making a quick sketches or to write quick ideas, just like singer or rapper uses the voice memos app or a writer uses the notes app when they want to capture a quick idea that they don't want to forget and maybe use it later in their home studio and produce it their home computer music daw, and that is the biggest problem, because by perceiving the ios platform only in that way, user or producers do not take the time to see the true potential of mobile protection,
just like analog musician thought about music apps for a home computer when they first started coming out, until my generation that wanted to create music, started to discover those computers apps in the late 90s and early 2000s and by just using that, they got creative and proving themself that they don't need thousands of dollars music equipment to accomplish their dream, and with just a computer and a complete application like fruity loop 3, and the few vst that were coming out at that time, they was able to produce quality music that end up being playing on the radio, which got noticed by the music industry giving birth to the new generation of computer music producers which stared the big boom that conquered the music production that we know now, so that's exactly what's happening with iOS and its mobile devices, but there is a problem with iOS, its running much slower to find that boom, and the reason is apple ios system, which don't don't allowed that growth to go faster, making it hard for apps developers to create pc pro type of apps, which make it almost impossible or not easy for producers to produce a complete pro quality songs on ios, songs with the potential to become popular songs that can be played on the music industry, so until that doesn't happened, that boom will not begins with ios, so it has to start with 1. apple system, 2. a complete daw on ios that makes it possible for producer and beat maker produce a complete song professionally, for the boom to start, which will help to attract a large mass of producers, creators and new users which will also be help what helps developers sell apps!
Yes. It's pretty much a total overhaul. And especially if it's your first AUv3 there's a ton of undocumented pitfalls to discover. I can't imagine it being fun and the economical arguments for doing it on an existing product are highly questionable.
Funny how things have changed. When I started making AUv3 plugins in 2016, I had a hell of a time convincing people of the merits of AU plugins versus standalone apps and there was a lot of resistance and skepticism against it
Dev listens and is convinced to invest a ton of time and effort into making a new auv3 version.
Releases the auv3 version for 6€, that’s the number where dev figures he/she can break even.
People don’t buy as they’re waiting for the Black Friday price drop.
Sorry for the sarcasm, but the truth is we’re a very small and unreliable niche market.
That's it though. Release an app for $10 and people will complain it's too expensive, then they wonder why there are no full-featured DAWs on the platform.
Cynically thinking, I’d even expect backlash “charging again for the same app”. I can almost see the comments on the YouTube videos.
I don’t know if we can be “educated” to learn about the situation of these independent devs . Even about the actual numbers. Time invested vs app sales, apple cut, pricing… I’m under the impression (pretty certain) that iOS music devs could make a lot more money working elsewhere, but they do it out of passion.
Take the IAA to auv3 case in this thread… The devs didn’t have an option then, Apple had decided it was IAA, so that’s what I was. Now it’s auv3. All the burden and pressure goes to the devs, while apple still gets their cut.
And it’s in this very precarious situation that people want Logic Pro. I’m pretty sure Logic would just take over. Set new standards everyone would have to oblige to and this situation would only get worse for independent devs.
If there’s one thing I love about iOS apps is the small teams or even single individuals that put out these amazing apps. Loopy Michael, brambros, FAC, AUM, imaginando, Igor, 4pockets and so on… these are the stars that made this happen. And I don’t see things getting easier for them, quite the opposite. Would they be willing to turn into plugin providers for Logic iOS?.
In the current situation I think it’d be a terrible day for iOS music. Like when they thought it was a great idea to bring cute rabbits to Australia.
And app prices are still going down, not up! I fully expect that at some point, music app developers will have to pay users money for installing them 😂
Logic Pro iOS would likely be good for independent AUv3 devs..because the Logic user base is more accustomed to seeking out and craving plugins.
I’m doubtful that GarageBand users on MacOS outspend Logic users on plugins.