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Wotja 23: Generative Music by Intermorphic Ltd.

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Comments

  • @Masanga said:

    Could you say a bit more around the role of the first Junction unit (3) in the first cell? Are you using the phase inversion to take out the centre signal from the reverb output? (I haven't quite got my head round this part, but it's very cool.)

    That’s exactly what it is doing. The amplifier before it is set to invert the phase of the R2XL output. Junction 3 mixes this phase inverted signal with the dry input so cancels out anything that is common to both outputs, meaning it removes most of the centre but leaves the sides intact.

    Junction 4 then acts as a mixer so you can balance up the dry centre with wide stereo sides according to taste.

    Mid side processing is a really useful technique. It’s probably my favourite way to record in stereo (in the studio) which is why I was motivated to see if I could get something similar happening in the WAE. Fortunately, Pete had the foresight to give the amp unit a phase invert option. It’s been there for as long as I can remember but I don’t think I’ve made much use of it before now.

  • edited January 2023

    @UMCorps said:

    @Masanga said:

    Could you say a bit more around the role of the first Junction unit (3) in the first cell? Are you using the phase inversion to take out the centre signal from the reverb output? (I haven't quite got my head round this part, but it's very cool.)

    That’s exactly what it is doing. The amplifier before it is set to invert the phase of the R2XL output. Junction 3 mixes this phase inverted signal with the dry input so cancels out anything that is common to both outputs, meaning it removes most of the centre but leaves the sides intact.

    Junction 4 then acts as a mixer so you can balance up the dry centre with wide stereo sides according to taste.

    Mid side processing is a really useful technique. It’s probably my favourite way to record in stereo (in the studio) which is why I was motivated to see if I could get something similar happening in the WAE. Fortunately, Pete had the foresight to give the amp unit a phase invert option. It’s been there for as long as I can remember but I don’t think I’ve made much use of it before now.

    This is utterly fantastic; I'm completely obsessed with this technique now. It's the perfect antidote to the kind of reverb soup that I keep spilling over everything.

    Coincidentally (I know you know this, but I didn't and it seems worth sharing), @imtim was just explaining to me about the hidden reverb settings in the W23 templates, where most of those in the Drones and Bass paks have a bypassed Reverb in the Cell FX or sometimes the in-cell signal chain (R2XL for the Drones, R1 for the Basses). They're bypassed because Schemas include FX presets at Mix level and you don't want a Cell-level reverb if it's going to be slathered in R2XL further down the chain – but if you're using these templates outside Schemas, they offer a ready-made reverb setting that you can just turn on ad hoc for an extra serving of awesome.

  • edited January 2023

    @Masanga said:

    @UMCorps said:

    @Masanga said:

    Could you say a bit more around the role of the first Junction unit (3) in the first cell? Are you using the phase inversion to take out the centre signal from the reverb output? (I haven't quite got my head round this part, but it's very cool.)

    That’s exactly what it is doing. The amplifier before it is set to invert the phase of the R2XL output. Junction 3 mixes this phase inverted signal with the dry input so cancels out anything that is common to both outputs, meaning it removes most of the centre but leaves the sides intact.

    Junction 4 then acts as a mixer so you can balance up the dry centre with wide stereo sides according to taste.

    Mid side processing is a really useful technique. It’s probably my favourite way to record in stereo (in the studio) which is why I was motivated to see if I could get something similar happening in the WAE. Fortunately, Pete had the foresight to give the amp unit a phase invert option. It’s been there for as long as I can remember but I don’t think I’ve made much use of it before now.

    This is utterly fantastic; I'm completely obsessed with this technique now. It's the perfect antidote to the kind of reverb soup that I keep spilling over everything.

    Coincidentally (I know you know this, but I didn't and it seems worth sharing), @imtim was just explaining to me about the hidden reverb settings in the W23 templates, where most of those in the Drones and Bass paks have a bypassed Reverb in the (R2XL for the Drones, R1 for the Basses). They're bypassed because Schemas include FX presets at Mix level and you don't want a Cell-level reverb if it's going to be slathered in R2XL further down the chain – but if you're using these templates outside Schemas, they offer a ready-made reverb setting that you can just turn on ad hoc for an extra serving of awesome.

    FYI AUM has mid-side balancing built-in.

  • @Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr said:

    @Masanga said:

    @UMCorps said:

    @Masanga said:

    Could you say a bit more around the role of the first Junction unit (3) in the first cell? Are you using the phase inversion to take out the centre signal from the reverb output? (I haven't quite got my head round this part, but it's very cool.)

    That’s exactly what it is doing. The amplifier before it is set to invert the phase of the R2XL output. Junction 3 mixes this phase inverted signal with the dry input so cancels out anything that is common to both outputs, meaning it removes most of the centre but leaves the sides intact.

    Junction 4 then acts as a mixer so you can balance up the dry centre with wide stereo sides according to taste.

    Mid side processing is a really useful technique. It’s probably my favourite way to record in stereo (in the studio) which is why I was motivated to see if I could get something similar happening in the WAE. Fortunately, Pete had the foresight to give the amp unit a phase invert option. It’s been there for as long as I can remember but I don’t think I’ve made much use of it before now.

    This is utterly fantastic; I'm completely obsessed with this technique now. It's the perfect antidote to the kind of reverb soup that I keep spilling over everything.

    Coincidentally (I know you know this, but I didn't and it seems worth sharing), @imtim was just explaining to me about the hidden reverb settings in the W23 templates, where most of those in the Drones and Bass paks have a bypassed Reverb in the (R2XL for the Drones, R1 for the Basses). They're bypassed because Schemas include FX presets at Mix level and you don't want a Cell-level reverb if it's going to be slathered in R2XL further down the chain – but if you're using these templates outside Schemas, they offer a ready-made reverb setting that you can just turn on ad hoc for an extra serving of awesome.

    FYI AUM has mid-side balancing built-in.

    Oh wow. Never even noticed that, let alone the tip in the manual about splitting the signal before adding FX; there goes the weekend…

  • Yeah I realised recently when I did that little vid using the phase invert before a reverb that I've really been sleeping on those internal AUM fx / tools. Definitely have to explore those more!

  • @UMCorps said:

    @impete said:
    By the way, I have had a lot of fun while creating the sample player, with modulation of the "Direction" property. There is something quite transfixing about it.

    Mark posted a You Tube video demonstrating playing with the Direction property a couple of days back, using a short recording of John Cage speaking. I've been lucky enough to listen to his mix on my test system, and the mix really is something else.

    Pete

    Can't post that as a text mix because it uses an external sample so there is too much text to load into a forum post.

    Link to the file is in the attached zip

    I flat-out stole your Generator setup for this celebration of my all-time favourite film and soundtrack.

  • Blimey, that’s a lot of work! Excellent!

    And also one of my favourite OSTs. And films.

    On the subject of favourite soundtracks, as soon as I got my hands on the new filters, this had to be done….

  • @UMCorps said:
    Blimey, that’s a lot of work! Excellent!

    And also one of my favourite OSTs. And films.

    On the subject of favourite soundtracks, as soon as I got my hands on the new filters, this had to be done….

    Oh, that is fantastic! Just watching the LFO readout dance across the screen gives me tingles.

  • @Masanga said:

    Oh, that is fantastic! Just watching the LFO readout dance across the screen gives me tingles.

    Drowning by numbers perhaps?

  • @UMCorps said:

    @Masanga said:

    Oh, that is fantastic! Just watching the LFO readout dance across the screen gives me tingles.

    Drowning by numbers perhaps?

    :D :D :D

  • Thanks for the update!

  • Been enjoying distressed tape loops recently. Thought it might be fun to see if Wotja could auto generate something in the same ballpark. If you don’t like the loop, replay to generate a new one. Feel free to steal the preset.

  • @UMCorps said:
    Been enjoying distressed tape loops recently. Thought it might be fun to see if Wotja could auto generate something in the same ballpark. If you don’t like the loop, replay to generate a new one. Feel free to steal the preset.

    Lovely, thanks for sharing, I shall explore this.

  • I'm really interested in this app. I would purchase it for my iMac but wondering if it is comprehensible by those of us with average technical brains? I've seen a couple videos which suggest that some people have spent years with it and still don't understand. Maybe it's better to not understand some things but just wondering if I'll buy it and spend a lot of time and never be able to have any small measure of control with it :)

  • edited January 2023

    @andowrites said:

    @UMCorps said:

    Been enjoying distressed tape loops recently. Thought it might be fun to see if Wotja could auto generate something in the same ballpark. If you don’t like the loop, replay to generate a new one. Feel free to steal the preset.

    Lovely, thanks for sharing, I shall explore this.

    I'm still trying to work out how to use this. I'm guessing I need to find somewhere to drop a sample in?

  • @gkillmaster said:
    I'm really interested in this app. I would purchase it for my iMac but wondering if it is comprehensible by those of us with average technical brains? I've seen a couple videos which suggest that some people have spent years with it and still don't understand. Maybe it's better to not understand some things but just wondering if I'll buy it and spend a lot of time and never be able to have any small measure of control with it :)

    You don't really need to get an indepth understanding of it as long as you're happy to just let it generate stuff for you. If you do want to really understand and master it, definitely would need patience and motivation to work through the manual and understand all the settings etc..

  • @Gavinski said:

    @gkillmaster said:
    I'm really interested in this app. I would purchase it for my iMac but wondering if it is comprehensible by those of us with average technical brains? I've seen a couple videos which suggest that some people have spent years with it and still don't understand. Maybe it's better to not understand some things but just wondering if I'll buy it and spend a lot of time and never be able to have any small measure of control with it :)

    You don't really need to get an indepth understanding of it as long as you're happy to just let it generate stuff for you. If you do want to really understand and master it, definitely would need patience and motivation to work through the manual and understand all the settings etc..

    Really appreciate this @Gavinski !

  • @gkillmaster said:
    I'm really interested in this app. I would purchase it for my iMac but wondering if it is comprehensible by those of us with average technical brains? I've seen a couple videos which suggest that some people have spent years with it and still don't understand. Maybe it's better to not understand some things but just wondering if I'll buy it and spend a lot of time and never be able to have any small measure of control with it :)

    My experience is that you can let the app do all the work, then learn by digging into it, a little at a time. For example, I'm loading it onto my AppleTV for generative ambient, and just let it do its thing. But on my iPhone, iPad, and Mac, I tend to start with a template, for example, a drone, and develop it from there, adding to it, a little at a time. Alternatively, in the past, I have started out with a Wotja generated piece, then explored and adjusted its innards, until its secrets reveal themselves to me.

    I say give it a go. You can always go with a one month trial period, then pay in full later if you go for it. I currently subscribe monthly, it's the model that works for me with Wotja.

  • edited January 2023

    @andowrites said:

    @gkillmaster said:
    I'm really interested in this app. I would purchase it for my iMac but wondering if it is comprehensible by those of us with average technical brains? I've seen a couple videos which suggest that some people have spent years with it and still don't understand. Maybe it's better to not understand some things but just wondering if I'll buy it and spend a lot of time and never be able to have any small measure of control with it :)

    My experience is that you can let the app do all the work, then learn by digging into it, a little at a time. For example, I'm loading it onto my AppleTV for generative ambient, and just let it do its thing. But on my iPhone, iPad, and Mac, I tend to start with a template, for example, a drone, and develop it from there, adding to it, a little at a time. Alternatively, in the past, I have started out with a Wotja generated piece, then explored and adjusted its innards, until its secrets reveal themselves to me.

    I say give it a go. You can always go with a one month trial period, then pay in full later if you go for it. I currently subscribe monthly, it's the model that works for me with Wotja.

    Thanks for the great info. I was going to look into whether a Pro one time purchase is just for one year or for the lifetime of the app. I read through all the purchase options and can't even comprehend those!

    Would you say you can achieve a great degree of variety? That's the thing I've noticed with other "generative" apps is that you begin to notice repeating patterns over time.

  • @andowrites said:

    @andowrites said:

    Lovely, thanks for sharing, I shall explore this.

    I'm still trying to work out how to use this. I'm guessing I need to find somewhere to drop a sample in?

    No. It’s set to generate its own sample. You get a new one each time you hit play.

    As the sample is generated from a generative template ( recursion much?) there is a risk that it might just be silence sometimes but if that happens just play it again to see if you have better luck.

  • @UMCorps said:

    @andowrites said:

    @andowrites said:

    Lovely, thanks for sharing, I shall explore this.

    I'm still trying to work out how to use this. I'm guessing I need to find somewhere to drop a sample in?

    No. It’s set to generate its own sample. You get a new one each time you hit play.

    As the sample is generated from a generative template ( recursion much?) there is a risk that it might just be silence sometimes but if that happens just play it again to see if you have better luck.

    I'll try again, thanks for the info!

  • @UMCorps said:

    @andowrites said:

    @andowrites said:

    Lovely, thanks for sharing, I shall explore this.

    I'm still trying to work out how to use this. I'm guessing I need to find somewhere to drop a sample in?

    No. It’s set to generate its own sample. You get a new one each time you hit play.

    As the sample is generated from a generative template ( recursion much?) there is a risk that it might just be silence sometimes but if that happens just play it again to see if you have better luck.

    Ah, I hear something now, very quiet, but I have an issue with Wotja 23 not going to my bluetooth speaker, as the rest of my computer audio is. I'm digging around for a setting to change that now so I can dive into this patch a little.

  • edited January 2023

    deleted

  • @gkillmaster said:

    Would you say you can achieve a great degree of variety? That's the thing I've noticed with other "generative" apps is that you begin to notice repeating patterns over time.

    You have full control over the variety available, ranging from predefined, unchanging sequences to completely indeterminate and all points in between.

    Being pattern sensitive creatures, we tend to impose patterns on the information we receive anyway, regardless of whether that info has been pre organised or not, so I can’t guarantee you won’t hear patterns emerging from time to time. But usually Wotja doesn’t do patterns unless you ask it to.

  • @UMCorps said:

    @gkillmaster said:

    Would you say you can achieve a great degree of variety? That's the thing I've noticed with other "generative" apps is that you begin to notice repeating patterns over time.

    You have full control over the variety available, ranging from predefined, unchanging sequences to completely indeterminate and all points in between.

    Being pattern sensitive creatures, we tend to impose patterns on the information we receive anyway, regardless of whether that info has been pre organised or not, so I can’t guarantee you won’t hear patterns emerging from time to time. But usually Wotja doesn’t do patterns unless you ask it to.

    Very interesting to think about. Thanks!

  • @andowrites said:

    Ah, I hear something now, very quiet, but I have an issue with Wotja 23 not going to my bluetooth speaker, as the rest of my computer audio is. I'm digging around for a setting to change that now so I can dive into this patch a little.

    Not sure there is a Wotja setting that is specific to Bluetooth output. Just the usual generic level controls.

    FWIW the patch was created in iOS using Bluetooth headphones (mostly because it’s currently 4 degrees C in my studio so that’s a no go today)

  • @UMCorps said:

    @andowrites said:

    Ah, I hear something now, very quiet, but I have an issue with Wotja 23 not going to my bluetooth speaker, as the rest of my computer audio is. I'm digging around for a setting to change that now so I can dive into this patch a little.

    Not sure there is a Wotja setting that is specific to Bluetooth output. Just the usual generic level controls.

    FWIW the patch was created in iOS using Bluetooth headphones (mostly because it’s currently 4 degrees C in my studio so that’s a no go today)

    I forgot to mention the sound issue is on my MacBook Pro, not iPad. I'll work it out. Or it will work itself out, more likely.

    4ºC is too low for the creative juices to flow, that's for sure!

  • https://macitbetter.com/>; @UMCorps said:

    I’ve not found a good way yet. On MacOS I couldn’t find a third party app that would let me add or remove files from zips without having to jump through too many hoops or that didn’t mess up existing file associations.

    It ended up being quicker for me simply to use MacOS native compression to rebuild a new archive each time I wanted to add a new file and drop that over to replace the previous one in the Wotja folder.

    I’m sure Pete will tell me you can do it easily from Terminal but command line operations scare me me

    I’m a bit late to this but Better Zip ( https://macitbetter.com/ ) will allow very easy manipulation of zip archives on a Mac. Plus a whole lot more. It’s a paid app though. I use it for work so it’s a no brainer for me, but others might not see the value at the end of the day.

  • @ltf3 said:
    I’m a bit late to this but Better Zip ( https://macitbetter.com/ ) will allow very easy manipulation of zip archives on a Mac. Plus a whole lot more. It’s a paid app though. I use it for work so it’s a no brainer for me, but others might not see the value at the end of the day.

    Thanks for the recommendation – BetterZip is also in Setapp, so I'm probably not the only one who has it already but never really looked at what it can do.

  • @ltf3 said:

    I’m a bit late to this but Better Zip ( https://macitbetter.com/ ) will allow very easy manipulation of zip archives on a Mac. Plus a whole lot more. It’s a paid app though. I use it for work so it’s a no brainer for me, but others might not see the value at the end of the day.

    Good call.

    Bookmarked. I think the time has come for me to install Ventura now but once that’s done I’ll have that.

    Thanks

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