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  • jason said:

    @wim said:
    Unfortunately I have to report that DSP is too high for my iPad Air2 (iOS 15.7.3) to handle in AUM. At buffer size 256, 44.1kHz just loading the plugin takes DSP from 1% up to 17% at idle. Playing a single note causes CPU to go to 77% on average. A three note chord takes it to 88%.

    That's just for feedback purposes. I realize it's not reasonable to expect an Air2 to handle most modern high-quality plugins. Though I will say that I don't have any other apps that hit the poor ol' thing as hard as that.

    This is anyhow a strange bug.
    I have tested up to 128 stereo notes (maximum polyphony) with moderate CPU.
    The classical pieces of the demos posted here would not even perform without that polyphony.

    It cracks me up to consider that one instrument with 88 keys played by 10 fingers needs 128 voices but then I remember the genius of the sustain pedal to let notes ring and layer in sonorous layers of beauty. This is also implemented in many synths too using CC=64 as I recall. That sounds like a good afternoon exercise playing with CC=64 on a hammered dulcimer script (MIDI tremolo is my contribution).

  • jason said:
    This is anyhow a strange bug.
    I have tested up to 128 stereo notes (maximum polyphony) with moderate CPU.
    The classical pieces of the demos posted here would not even perform without that polyphony.

    I can confirm high dsp on my relatively old iPad Pro 10.5 (2017). Single instance in AUM, not so complex midi feeded through midi tape recorder, dsp hits the max

  • jason said:
    I just see that allot of users use iOS 15. I wished I had not published for those devices.
    Also because it is optimised for all Apples latest fixed 48 kHz devices.

    Interesting! I just tested at 48kHz and the results are much better. Idle % is now at 9% rather than 17% . Single note takes it to about 27% and a three note chord is about 58%.

    That's workable.

  • However, overloading the app causes a repeatable, ungraceful kersplosion.

    Load the app, at 48kHz/256 buffer. Using the AUM keyboard, swipe back and forth to generate a ton of notes. Rather than just exhibiting crackles from audio overruns, the app emits a saw-wave type sound that will not stop. Unloading the extension stops the sound, but then on reloading, it's only inconsistently responsive to notes played on the AUM keyboard. Exiting AUM completely and reloading the plugin returns it to normal operation.

    100% reproducible here.

  • wimwim
    edited February 2023

    jason said:

    @wim said:

    jason said:
    I just see that allot of users use iOS 15. I wished I had not published for those devices.
    Also because it is optimised for all Apples latest fixed 48 kHz devices.

    Interesting! I just tested at 48kHz and the results are much better. Idle % is now at 9% rather than 17% . Single note takes it to about 27% and a three note chord is about 58%.

    That's workable.

    I could imagine to switch off the convolution for these devices too. But I am not sure yet.

    With the exception of the glitch reported above, those numbers put the performance in line with other high-end plugins such as Animoog, Model D, Factory, etc.. That's about all that I expect for being too cheap to invest in a new iPad.

    If it can just behave like other plugins on overload, it'll be perfectly workable for my purposes.

  • Don’t get emotional that ain’t like you. Yesterday still leaking through the roof

  • jason said:
    Some questions to beta testers and purchasers:

    • does switching off the velocity animation improve the stability (the strange crashes that were reported) ?
    • does using larger buffers on the host improve stability (we recommend 512 to 1024 samples) ?
    • Is the crash issue also discovered, when playing live or merely with the onscreen keyboards of any sort ?
    • do these crashes happen with MIDI file playback also ?
    • has it something to do with the implemented MIDI controllers ( or selecting models per parameter ) ?

    1. No
    2. AU crashes only with 32 samples (48khz), with 64 samples I can't recreate the crash
    3. Yes, with external usb midi and AUM onscreen keyboard and KB1
    4. in-build playback doesn't crash because it hasn't a busy polyphony
    5. I don't think so

    ipad pro 12 M1 2tb
    ios 16.3

  • wimwim
    edited February 2023

    jason said:

    @wim said:
    However, overloading the app causes a repeatable, ungraceful kersplosion.

    Load the app, at 48kHz/256 buffer. Using the AUM keyboard, swipe back and forth to generate a ton of notes. Rather than just exhibiting crackles from audio overruns, the app emits a saw-wave type sound that will not stop. Unloading the extension stops the sound, but then on reloading, it's only inconsistently responsive to notes played on the AUM keyboard. Exiting AUM completely and reloading the plugin returns it to normal operation.

    100% reproducible here.

    Yes. this is known and currently traces down to a memory deallocation bug of the Apple frameworks. it has obviously something to do with the graphics. However … I cannot reproduce this on my device, which makes debugging extremely difficult.

    I am using iPad Pro 12.9 with M1
    and iPhone 12 Pro Max

    The device fragmentation at Apple has reached new dimensions.

    I'd be happy enough to drop the visual feedback on incoming notes if that fixed the deallocation problem. In fact, I'd prefer it without the feedback in the first place.

    I neglected to mention that when the lockup happens, the purple rectangle-thingy is mostly solid in the center, with some individual radiating rectangles surrounding it.

  • jason said:
    I will delete it.

    Really? I didn't know developers could delete user's reviews.

    What use is the App Store reviews section if developers can just weed out any review they don't like?

  • @Simon said:

    jason said:
    I will delete it.

    Really? I didn't know developers could delete user's reviews.

    What use is the App Store reviews section if developers can just weed out any review they don't like?

    Developers can’t delete reviews.

    There is an appeals process I believe…and I think they only succeed in cases where the review is clearly malicious or wrong. There are lots of bad reviews that are clearly the result of user incompetence where the reviewer never bothered to contact the the developer for support and which developers never succeed in having taken down.

  • @espiegel123 said:
    Developers can’t delete reviews.

    There is an appeals process I believe…and I think they only succeed in cases where the review is clearly malicious or wrong. There are lots of bad reviews that are clearly the result of user incompetence where the reviewer never bothered to contact the the developer for support and which developers never succeed in having taken down.

    Very interesting. Thank you for the info.

  • jason said:

    As far I can see now, loads of changes will apply to the update…

    jason , all of these changes sound excellent. JAX is already off to a good start as a first (early) release. We’ll all be looking forward to these changes.

    Best to you! 🎹

  • all of this is good news, nice day for lovers of grand piano

  • edited February 2023

    jason said:
    HAL : Dave, should I delete Simon?

    No, Hal, it's certainly not Simon's fault that he's like this. He must have had a difficult childhood.

    You were happy enough to accept my offer of help to promote your filter app a few years ago. It was an offer to help you and I asked no payment.

    Look at you now. Very sad.

  • jason said:
    …> @McD said:

    jason said:

    @wim said:
    Unfortunately I have to report that DSP is too high for my iPad Air2 (iOS 15.7.3) to handle in AUM. At buffer size 256, 44.1kHz just loading the plugin takes DSP from 1% up to 17% at idle. Playing a single note causes CPU to go to 77% on average. A three note chord takes it to 88%.

    That's just for feedback purposes. I realize it's not reasonable to expect an Air2 to handle most modern high-quality plugins. Though I will say that I don't have any other apps that hit the poor ol' thing as hard as that.

    This is anyhow a strange bug.
    I have tested up to 128 stereo notes (maximum polyphony) with moderate CPU.
    The classical pieces of the demos posted here would not even perform without that polyphony.

    It cracks me up to consider that one instrument with 88 keys played by 10 fingers needs 128 voices but then I remember the genius of the sustain pedal to let notes ring and layer in sonorous layers of beauty. This is also implemented in many synths too using CC=64 as I recall. That sounds like a good afternoon exercise playing with CC=64 on a hammered dulcimer script (MIDI tremolo is my contribution).

    EXACTLY.

    The Piano is one of the rare instruments that requires at least 128 voices of STEREO polyphony. So in fact 256 voices.
    This Rachmaninoff piece below for instance is played with sustain almost on.

    https://midi.digitster.com/JAX Concert Grand Pianos/sound/Prelude Opus 23.m4a

    Isn’t sustain in MIDI usual treated as a Boolean… on or off but sent as a 0-127 7-bit number? Is there some number for “almost on” like 62 decimal and does your app implement the effective audio of a pianist doing this? I’m not sure which side of the 63-64 break the “almost” sits on.

    I’ve seen digital piano claims of partial damping which is like almost sustaining. Sounds like a fruitful Google search for trivia that counts.

    I still have my sustain experiments to do with my Mozaic script.

    How about Una Corda… does MIDI spec that? That’s a pedal to shift the hammers so only one of the three strings is touched which reduces volume and resonance… rarely used I think. Some cheaper pianos cheat by lowering the hammer so it hits quieter for the same finger input. Mapping both volume and tambre to velocity in MIDI really reduced these subtle physical details.

    I wonder if MIDI 2.0 added more nuonce.

  • jason said:
    All world is talking about Pianoteq.

    But honestly, I rather highly recommend to take a closer look at ARTURIA.
    Their Virtual Piano got allot better with version 2 and delivers very good results for the value. It even has got many different models, that actually sound extraordinary. And it supports full velocity spectrum too and is extremely easy to use. Superior results out of the box.

    I will check it out.

    My experiences with Pianoteq are rather ... erm ... difficult. Yes I think it is difficult to get it sounding the way I wanted. Possibly this is also, because I do not like some of the included models, they are featuring and you pay allot of more for this.

    It is reported that PianoTeq is coming to IOS... the fact that they created a Raspberry Pi version years ago has always frustrated the shit out of me. "What are we? Chopped Liver?" and "I (we) can't get no respect" and "My money is just as good as theirs."

    But PianoTeq on IOS will set a new price point for apps on IOS, I expect.

    I think Arturia has given up on IOS ventures... go figure. We are notoriously thrifty because we get true gems for less that $10 on a weekly basis.

  • jason said:

    Did I forget something ?

    I'm not sure this qualifies, but the UI scaling as an AU on my Air 2 is difficult. The graphic doesn't fill the window well, making it very tiny to try to see the controls. I discovered zoom, so that helps. But I think the impression of the app would be better if it scaled better within the available window so that additional gestures / window resizing isn't needed to be able to work with the settings.

    Just a suggestion.

  • jason said:

    @wim said:

    jason said:

    Did I forget something ?

    I'm not sure this qualifies, but the UI scaling as an AU on my Air 2 is difficult. The graphic doesn't fill the window well, making it very tiny to try to see the controls. I discovered zoom, so that helps. But I think the impression of the app would be better if it scaled better within the available window so that additional gestures / window resizing isn't needed to be able to work with the settings.

    Just a suggestion.

    Hm, this is complicated, as it must work with all possible screen sizes, including mac fullscreen and such, even on the iPhone, where the view actually gets re-arranged completely into portrait mode.

    Yeh, I know. It may not be worth the effort. Still ... all other apps manage it fairly well, so it sets user expectations.
    It was just a bit of "marketing feedback". Having the zoom available makes it workable anyway. 👍🏼

  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • This discussion has too much drama. I’ll wait for Pianoteq, even if it’s more expensive.

  • Hi Jason, don’t know if it can be of any help but I had the opportunity to try the latest beta with AEMS (the only DAW I’m using at the moment) and here it sounds out of tune if the project sample rate is set on 44100 (C3 is around 405Hz), at 48000 it works fine.

  • @kaukokaipuu said:
    Hi Jason, don’t know if it can be of any help but I had the opportunity to try the latest beta with AEMS (the only DAW I’m using at the moment) and here it sounds out of tune if the project sample rate is set on 44100 (C3 is around 405Hz), at 48000 it works fine.

    I just had the same experience with AUM on my iPad 6, iPadOS 16.3. I surprised to be able to change to 48000, since I believed it would require a suitable audio interface. But being out of tune at the default sample rate for the device is a pretty big limitation. Particularly when using the app stand-alone, since there's no way to change the system default sample rate.

  • @uncledave said:

    @kaukokaipuu said:
    Hi Jason, don’t know if it can be of any help but I had the opportunity to try the latest beta with AEMS (the only DAW I’m using at the moment) and here it sounds out of tune if the project sample rate is set on 44100 (C3 is around 405Hz), at 48000 it works fine.

    I just had the same experience with AUM on my iPad 6, iPadOS 16.3. I surprised to be able to change to 48000, since I believed it would require a suitable audio interface. But being out of tune at the default sample rate for the device is a pretty big limitation. Particularly when using the app stand-alone, since there's no way to change the system default sample rate.

    Fwiw, even though an iPad 6 can run at 44.1k, its hardware is 48k. So, not only can it run at 48k, some audio apps will run more reliably when it is set to 48k.

  • jason said:

    Did I forget something ?

    Pedal noise knob and felt dampers noise knob please!

  • @alesis said:

    jason said:

    Did I forget something ?

    Pedal noise knob and felt dampers noise knob please!

    It's a wonder that no one ever asks for Glenn Gould's Grunting or Monk tapping his foot while playing Monk.
    To be historically accurate I'd imagine Bach probably farted. Has any heard Pedal Noises and thought "Um-m-m, that's
    the real deal."

    Now felt noise might be used to add extra percussive content... I do love muted and felted pianos as percussion instruments.
    Technically, the piano is a percussion instrument but the keyboard interface ended up spawning a whole new category of instruments that built on the older organ and harpsichord instances. And now we have "pads"...

  • edited February 2023

    @McD said:

    @alesis said:

    jason said:

    Did I forget something ?

    Pedal noise knob and felt dampers noise knob please!

    It's a wonder that no one ever asks for Glenn Gould's Grunting or Monk tapping his foot while playing Monk.
    To be historically accurate I'd imagine Bach probably farted. Has any heard Pedal Noises and thought "Um-m-m, that's
    the real deal."

    Now felt noise might be used to add extra percussive content... I do love muted and felted pianos as percussion instruments.
    Technically, the piano is a percussion instrument but the keyboard interface ended up spawning a whole new category of instruments that built on the older organ and harpsichord instances. And now we have "pads"...

    On the solo album I need pedal and dampers sound because it is a part of whole sound of acoustic instrument. And I want to be able to control amount of these sounds like I control it when doing mics setup. But on the band record usually I don't need these sounds because in that context these sounds have no practical meaning and artistic intent.

  • I've enjoyed playing and testing this over the last couple of days. I've noticed two things that make it very nice to play:

    • Consistent sound between notes. Sampled instruments have more variation.
    • Clear sound down into the bass range, where some sampled instruments become muddy.
  • fast update at the appstore

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