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Comments
Ugh, I missed the intro price on this one. Sounds fantastic to me!
After few days of playing only JAX Superior Grand, today I goes back to Decent Sampler to check my favourite libraries…. And as you can imagine, there is flat sound (in DS libraries), no expressivenes (small range from pp to ff), small amount of parameters to „prepare” sound, and often no attack of the hammers (compression printed in source files). Sure, libraries I checked are free, but still difference is like between (almost) non velocity midi keyboard and hammer-key action. No matter how strong I press keys, in DS its no meaning as limitation is inside library. Maybe with 127 velocity layers and 10GB library something would be better, my libraries are mostly 1 GB.
As you can hear, even If sampler react to midi velocity (and change volume) there is no timbre / attack change in sound. JAX Superior Grand is more organic experience, natural responding.
EDIT; just deleted all pianos from DS, in true I left only one library Peter Flint Red Clay Guitar which I still like. In AudioLayer I still left Yamaha C3 500MB Grand, close micked, for „bright experimental use” with hope for more JAX Grands (Japan for example).
👌🤞I felt peak moment during listening, great prrformance.
I remember feeling of the wooden keyboard in the yamaha grand touch 2 which was really hard to achieve forstissimo.
Standatd midi keyboard (like casio AP21 which I use) allow so easly reach 127 velocity, and its almost inpossible to be jn ramge velocity 1-10.
BUT
with Superior Grand we HEAR IT - such too heavy playing as unnatural sounding (compared to real acoustic grand) and we can at least try to tame habits and play with focus on dynamic/softer, to left some headroom/space/dynamics for forstissimo moments.
Everytime spent with JAX Superior Grand is like therapy for broken mind/hand , broken by cheap expressiveless sampler library with strange velocity curve etc.
Im learning again to use all velocity range, not only upper half.
jason thank you!
EDIT; hard to compare both above recording as their nature and levels are different.
But will be pleasure to touching and hearing how it react under fingers.
Here is Suuperior Grand with velocity curve midi plugin before to adjust “touch”.
Comparable. First of all both (video and m4a) recordings sounds similar, JAX Concert Grand is powerful, nicely opens timbre when played forte and fortissimo, bass notes gives very dramatic low (witch rich harmonics).
I love JAX grands because when played pp the sound is somehow „filtered” but still with (heard) hammer mechanics.
Most If not all sampled_grands are IMO too bright when played pianissimo. We mostly accepted this BY YEARS with earlier technology limitation, but now with new modeling technology the difference is so huge. Listen to pp modeled and compare to pp sampled shows how new JAX Grands are musically deep and offers rich dynamics. Its more than simple volume difference, its how timbre changes with playing.
Concert Grand is just WOW.
Sounds great! Still loving the app, excited for the next wave to come through!
Why are you still digging in on this? You claim to have a personality disorder. While I'm sorry to hear that, you can’t expect everyone to either guess that is the case, or, even knowing that's the case, to grant you the space to just be an arsehole to people.
This is a lovely community with great members; one of whom you've had a spat with, but seem incapable of notching it up to bad/miscommunication and letting it go. Not even laying all the blame for that at your feet, but you’re certainly at fault for still continuing with petty side-swipes. Just feels like bullying to me.
Some nice performances to hear. Last one, the jazz is briliant, and sound is also full and rich. Thats fantastic there will be more Grands in this series.
If you wake up at 3 am for playing on keyboard some music, then JAX Grands is for you.
Unfortunately, this thread is just another in a long list of forum threads I've seen over the years in which certain developers have tried to contend that the pleibians i.e the users just don't understand the genius of said developer. Not sure it’s the right tact to use, if your aim is to present a good image.
I have no knowledge of your history here, but from this thread alone I get the impression that if there was any destroying of any existence that you probably played somewhat of a pivotal role.
Anyway, clearly we disagree on the intent behind the original comment that I quoted…and that’s fine.
I genuinely wish you all the best.
@el_bo We talk about the product (app) and user experience with.
I dont know personaly other user or developers, so I dont know If any of mentioned „genius” its hard to „understand”.
No body pretend to such title.
But we know the product and user experience (TestFlight link was fair enough). Isnt the last jazz example great ??
☝️🔥 Great boogiewoogie, staccato, strong big hands! Fusion 3/3 as example is great 👍🙃
My mother said on this example “it’s ok” so she like it too.
In my world we all understand each others, we enjoy the products, accepting differences in our taste, style, mind etc.
There is something more important than this thread: the new Grand piano apps.
So many times I was asshole, so many times others do similar, and what? It does not matter.
Matter is the joy, playing, fun of performing, layering, recording, achieving new levels and leave in past earliers limitations.
Yes, we all do some of fails sometimes, but everything allow us to (groove) grow.
There're examples of what I'm referring to at various points within this thread. No need to go looking for them, if you don't wish to. Just to say that I'm not throwing around spurious claims.
As to the piano itself? From the few examples I've listened to, i can say that I like the general tone of the instrument. I'm not so convinced about the range of dynamics, thus far, but that's perhaps due to me not having listened t all examples. Certainly, the jazz example was not what I would've considered 'Best foot forward'. Perhaps that was down to choice of MIDI file, but I don't tend to like such heavy-handed performances; at least not for an entire piece. I'd prefer to hear something much more subtle.
Yes, this subtles are only when we personally touch the keyboard with velocity 5 or so (super piano). Then you get filtered sound with full hammer attack, something I didn’t meet in others libraries, only in JAX.
And I know what you mean, I’m human too, this all discussion was on the tiny border…. Like bad news.
In true grand piano sound is better subject.
jason can we as you (dj please) something slow, more subtle and slower? We would like to enjoy also pianissimo sound of your product. Thank you!
I am hoping for more JA* products and a fruitful exchange between buyers and jason
The JAF Collection is an amazing piece of audio programming and a lesson in filter technologies.
In general here, we try not to make person comments about music people love. We accept that music is different for each of us. Why? Because debate over art is personal and attacking art hurts the individual where they live.
Doesn’t the same courtesy apply to the art of programming? Why hurt a developer because of some personal detail?
If a comment hurts someone then accept the fault and either retreat or better yet apologize. We will never share the same views on music or technology but we can exhibit good manners and keep some opinions to ourselves.
It gets ugly when people start taking sides and react to someone stating their opinions about art. Listening is always the path to understanding.
And don’t poke the bear
I agree. It was easy to spit (sorry) in past on „bugs” or even on developers, without a second or minute of thinking how many work, and love and passion is needed to deliver ready to use product, often my opinions was distorted by personal „situation” and mind.
As example my about 2 years ago discussion here, my „whishlist” to do…. And then bang, uncledave siad „be careful what you wish for”. That was like flash of light, and then other users here helped more and more to change my „expectations”.
Now I get things as they are. I enjoy all of them. Just use only what is useful at the moment, but what a great range of options! So many apps and so many moments, time is full and free to choice what I want. So Im carrefuly choose the JAX Grand piano, and play play and more play, softly, dry, proccessed, layered, and love it more and more. Lastly great support from imaginando, beepstreet, 4pocket….(…) , and so many new instruments/proccessors. Developers really listen our voice, they do things for us.
We are in heaven.
We should not shit on developers, and even on product. Rather support, and chose what we want to use at the moment.
Well said @McD .
@LinearLineman is at liberty to express his opinion on your product. i don't think his comments were out of order. It's perhaps only in hindsight, given your reaction, that I think he should've been extra careful. But therein lies a problem. You're clearly carrying baggage into this, from earlier interactions, that are influencing your perception of this conversation.
I can't speak to these earlier episodes, as i was not witness to any of them. Maybe you got a rough-ride, but i would doubt that anyone was seriously looking to destroy you or your business. Certainly, that's not evident in this thread.
And I agree that there is always a delicate balance to be found when imparting opinion and criticism. That you took thousands of hours to create this does factor into that equation, but shouldn't make you immune to critique. Nor does it mean that if the result is really not how you think it is, that people should not tell you so. Quite the contrary, many app designers...nay, any creatives, appreciate the full-range of criticisms, as a way to gauge what works and what doesn't.
Maybe you have no interest in that.
Uchh. Above is my original review for those interested. I would hardly call it a total condemnation, but rather my own pov which I point out in almost every sentence
The dev felt comfortable damning my work of half a century with, guaranteed, multiple times more hours invested by me than he put into his piano app. However, it’s his right to have and express an opinion.
When you post on a forum like ABF you must accept incoming flac. There Is nothing in the musical world that is universally accepted. Steinway? POS! Pavarotti? Not worth the vocal cords god gave him!
Maybe Jason has calmed down about this. I wish him luck and hope he addresses potential users concerns. He wrote he doesn’t want me to be angry at him. Unfortunately, I was not the one angered.
We all have the opportunity to learn many things from this online experience. It’s up to us to do so or not.
Sorry! Didn't want to drag you back into this. Nor did I want to mis-characterise your comment, which I might've done.
"When you post on a forum like ABF you must accept incoming flac." That's NOT true in general. People seem to err on the side of positivity and just hold their words when something isn't their thing. Violations of this basic behavior are typically called out with repeated events.
The record shows that the input of @linearlineman was specifically requested. When I saw it i thought "This will not end well."
When an app ships it's often subject to new issues and negative reviews can impact sales. Users might appreciate the "heads up" while the developer might appreciate a grace period to address exposed "flaws" before reviews that hinder revenue.
An app, like this one, that posts a TestFlight link in it's description deserves a little more tolerance. I wish more developers were willing to adopt this strategy to improve the quality of their products. It's likely that this strategy reduces app sales by delaying that critical now factor of the release date.
In general, most IOS developers have day jobs and program in their spare time for personal enjoyment. There are the few businesses that craft apps for our benefit but mostly it's the solo creator. Many have simply stopped using this forum for anything other that product and update announcements because there's always someone that wants immediate consideration of their needs and most developers have to prioritize their next move for their needs.
I hope users (of TestFlight) and the product are working on specific issues that can be addressed to improve the product and
future releases that leverage the same audio engine and take the early period as a time when most developers are eager to accept useful and "repeatable" issues. Posting immediate negative reviews are not really helpful. I now I do not take the step of contacting the developer's posted "support" link... when I do it's rarely acknowledged and I just move on but do not forget.
I just assume I didn't reach the top of the queue for requests. After all, it's a one to many situation and I am not at the center of all universes... just this one.
jason there is nothing left to say. You have my sympathies. For the record I have played both The BlueNote and Birdland in NYC. I believe I am in the company of many “jazz experts” who have played there though I never claimed to be one myself. If some folks here consider me that, it is simply their opinion against yours.
Also, some reviews for your delectation …
One of the most uniquely individual pianists currently abroad. This is very rich music. After listening to the disc repeatedly, each rehearing still yields up new barks and berries.
— Alan Barbebuhr, Cadence Magazine
Michael Levy reveals fresh perspectives on some jazz classics, virtually creating new identities for them in both form and feeling. The improvisational flow is allowed to cut new channels through these pieces, opening up byways and hidden crannies.
— Lois Moody, Jazz News
Dori Levine / Michael Levy. KOO KOO
If sultriness were patentable, Levine would hold the patent. She vocalizes on a uniquely spontaneous program with pianist Levy with a moody, down-to-earth style that projects her voice as an improvising instrument in tandem with the piano. Yet she can also ooze out emotion as a torch singer, placing her in a dual attack role as a jazz vocalist. Stoking the fire for Levine is Levy, who carries on a love affair with the keyboard with his mesmerizing development of the songs. Playing in fully improvised mode, Levy creates the heat of smoldering embers that places emphasis on the lower end consistent with Levine’s voicing. These two creative performers develop each selection through acute listening and interaction. You can hear each of them take fragments of the other’s notes and turn them around in a new variation on the theme. Levine approaches each song with the originality and inventiveness that marks the work of Jeanne Lee. She gets moody, pensive, or alternately highly excitable and injects a creative spirit into every note. Whether scatting in non-word phrases or melting steel with her sensual twist on lyrics, she comes off as an inventive artist. Similarly Levy exists in her same world, crafting deep-toned and weighty improvisations full of substance. He broods over a tune, reaching down into its bowels and emerging with lustrous gemstones. As a team, these two are captivating in their moodiness. They raise the level of jazz vocal originality several notches and are definitely worth hearing.
— Frank Rubolino, Cadence Magazine, August 1999
Michael Levy/ Charley Krachy. SOUP
No question about it, this is the most challenging music on the list. This isn't background music. You can't put it on and walk away from it.
Bob Snyder WRST-FM
Quixotic, sometimes mysterious and constantly shifting in mood and focus ... Stimulating music for the adventurous listener.
— Lois Moody, Jazz News
And now for something completely different….
I wish we could get back to learning about how to implement a piano driven by MIDI.
For velocity control in a 128 level range: I'd assume most apps just manage an amplifier applied to some number of
layers with several transitional strategies. But in this app, I'm expecting there's a lot more to the implementation worth
understanding. But it's sometimes not something a developer will openly share if it's considered an invention.
Can we discuss this? MIDI is wonderful and only fails me when I need more attention to articulations like a violin using the bow versus being plucked or attacking one note out of several that requires swapping out samples rapidly. Since most of us use MIDI controllers we can't see the boundaries of the problems MIDI ignores.
I think most of MIDI was designed around the features of the piano and then adapted over time to the capabilities of analog synths.
Are Jason and Szczyp the same person running two accounts?
Amazing that this was actually performed live back in 2021.
According to Taylor, Yamaha s90 digital pianos controlling Pianoteq.
Score is generously provided by Taylor on his website and includes the microtonal tunings for each of the six pianos.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1U3zkmOuETnBs_zRGo8pX5wBwW1H-oMsh/view
Yes, we all receive losslessly compressed audio files in our inboxes after posting 😜
on topic of argument, I say: !Make Quieter
on topic of velocity layers and dynamics: This has always seemed odd to me, when piano libraries boast how many layers they have, surely the samples aren’t actually being played at the normalized volume of each recorded note (e.g. velocity 37-45 maps to the a given sample at it’s recorded volume), I would assume it’s a simple linear (dare I say a line, man) interpolation from the 0-127 midi value (e.g. 37 maps to a sample, 38 maps to that sample slightly louder as per a defined velocity curve), the sensitivity of which comes down to your keyboard’s action and sensors not the samples. In that way there’s little difference between having 127 unique layers and say 5 layers of actual different velocity. Things like the change in tone from a light touch come down to performance and the physical nature of the strings, on a real piano. You could theoretically do a “piano” with just one characteristic sample (say C4 mapped across the whole pitch and volume ranges if you really wanted, the timbre is still a piano), this would not capture the dynamics since there’s no physical difference between a given note at different amplitude (There would be no high end ringing of forte playing for example) but I think only a few velocity layers (pianissimo to forte etc) would really be enough to capture the essence, the real characteristic sound is more due to sympathetic vibration and resonance of the actual physical instrument, which is by it’s nature different to model and where sample libraries can fail. I think yamaha uses that sample + physical modelling concept. To be positive it seems like jason’s piano is a good direction to piano sound, Just thinking aloud…
I actually really like the sound of this app, any chance of a 50% discount code plz 😎 cos i missed the introductory offer whilst going through chemo.
Thnx in advance 💕
These are great reviews 👌
.> @FriedTapeworm said:
Interesting thought.