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My memory is proving to be somewhat unreliable… but I found this Piano World Cup poll in the archives that happened well after the original poll conducted by @tja (as I recall) where Salamander (the default in Auria Pro) won:
https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/44909/the-abf-world-cup-piano-app-competition-grand-final-winner-announced/p1
This is a poll for listener’s and NOT players or producers (tho’ many here do produce).
NOTE: The “Lyra” sampler inside Auria Pro accepts SFZ imports and is an amazingly good Disk Streaming implementation. I wish they would break it out as an AUv3 instance. I think it also handles other formats as well.
I fed it the 24-bit Salamander implementation since the default is 16-bit (as I recall). I also got it to accept the “Piano for Room 162” which seems to have fallen off the internet as a free download.
I don’t believe the true Salamander piano has the defects described earlier. I wonder if the soundfont mentioned was a botched adaptation of the samples.
For something’s I love a Yamaha tone and I found the humped (upwards) curve to really add high frequencies without
Sounding louder… so it acts as a form of EQ for the user even tho’ you’re probably selecting or adjusting the model to match a harder key press. I’m still not sure how you’re building your beast and it’s your secret sauce but clues are always appreciated.
Maybe you should add yet another model to the catalog… one dark and one brighter. There’s are customers for each and bundles will always be appreciated to lower the cost per instance.
Quotes from the early critic of the demo. He’s a good guy and I’m sorry you guys locked horns. Playing well with others is
Tricky when they tell you your “art” sucks. Sad really… I respect you both. Mostly for your honesty. Both of you.
I love this audio engineering tour of the technology. I find there’s always something worth learning even if you forget it all days later.
A lot of these specifics remind me of the great blue mango video lectures on there FX apps regarding aliasing or amp simulations.
Repeated exposure to knowledge seems to help.
I do wish my ears could detect the nuonces as well as my eyes can see differences in the graphs. I think we hear like we taste and develop bad habits from extra bass or even types of distortion that shave off the highs or scoop out bucked of mid-range. But every fool knows what he likes but not why exactly. But still … a fool and his opinion are never parted. I fact the defense against knowledge grows stronger… Sophus Moronus.
Spell check did not like that.
Is string sympathetic resonance added as a model or some extra wave forms selected from overtone math?
Wow, I’m interested and finally it will be released! We are open to get further updates with changes, but at least it will be available… and with say this, I’m completely satisfied with Superior. If there will be no others scheduled, I would live with only it…. But knowing it’s from you, the apps are must have now.
Apple must put the new hires on the IOS review team.
I’ll take all the models please. A piano a day keeps the proctologist away. (Old polish saying).
jason . Could you please post links to the new app preorders when they are available? And maybe the public betas as well?
jason Thanks for the hard work. cheers!
jason I tried Jax Emperor. There is definitely some kind of "next level realism" to it. Please be nice to me, because I genuinely want to see your products succeed. I am very much interested in buying at least one of these pianos. And I do use an 88 key keyboard, with a sustain pedal.
What is this phenomenon that I'm hearing at around 2kHz?
I feel like I've heard this sound acoustically, just not from a piano. Like, maybe I struck a metal pole with a stick or something, and it made a sound like this? I don't know. I think this is what @LinearLineman was referring to when he said that he heard "weird distortion".
Sometimes I play a note and it creates this effect in a very pronounced way, and other times it's quieter. Here's a video. The video is unlisted.
https://youtube.com/shorts/14NDH3PSVoo?feature=share
My completely uneducated attempt to describe it: it sounds almost like one partial is modulating another partial. It sounds like what happens when you play two sine waves with slightly different frequencies.
jason Thank you for the explanation. The model used in the video is the Emperor.
In terms of individual character and lifeless pop pianos, well...it's complicated, and I'm somewhat conflicted. It's fun to visit a piano store, and try a variety of pianos. As with guitar amp cab impulse responses, it's nice to have some options "in the box", because I can probably rent some time with "the real version" if I ever need to.
But at the same time, it's like...I may never own more than two real acoustic pianos simultaneously. It's an instrument where most people can only pick one timbre, and the player ends up hearing that same timbre for thousands of hours. So part of me wants to pick one sound to form that bond with, in order to further emulate the experience of owning a real piano. And thus, while I'm not looking for a lifeless piano, I am looking for a generic piano.
In general, "generic" or "standard" or "versatile" is often something that I go for. I feel like it frees up my mental resources to focus on the composition when I don't even notice the character of the instrument.
So what draws me to your pianos is the commitment to quality, and the modeling of the transients, overtones, etc. The more "standard" the sound is that you're aiming for, the easier it is to evaluate the realism.
One of the challenges for modeled instruments is escaping the uncanny valley. Whether or not you have already managed to do that is subjective. To my ears, you're much closer to escaping it than Pianoteq, which sounds almost like it has an attack envelope on the transient. But invariably, some people will not be satisfied for decades. It's just the nature of the game. You do a lot of studying, and you don't know if you'll even come close to achieving a sound you like. If you do raise the bar, a handful of "physical modeling enthusiasts" will love your work. A larger number of people will probably stick to their lifeless samples. And the majority of musicians will fall into one of two categories: people who are hostile to the entire concept of physical modeling, and people who don't care about tone.
Personally, I use SWAM when I'm playing my EWI or writing hybrid orchestral music, and I use sample libraries the rest of the time. I like Icegear Lagrange's analog oscillators. I like AAS Chromaphone, Softube's Mesa, and Otto Audio ii ii ii ii. When I hear Pianoteq, Scuffham S-Gear, or TB FlowTones, my ears focus in on the algorithmically-generated particles of digital weirdness. NeuralDSP can sound too digital and flat if I've been using Nembrini, and Nembrini can sound too thin, muddy, and noisy if I've been using NeuralDSP.
If I were a developer exploring physical modeling, the toughest thing for me would be this: Some day, another developer will raise the bar again, and you won't know how they did it. I suppose it's similar for anybody who breaks a world record.
Tell us what you really think.
I suspect the level of crap is probably relarively constant but entropy might indicate it’s increasing in volume.
Still looking forward to the second drop on the 12th if the store doesn’t slow you down.
Reading this thread for the first time. And it gave me the greatest migraine of all time. Quite delicious. Many Thanks.
Yeah!!!!!!
Can you apply the same fix for the Mac version of JAX MIDI Module player which still crashes? Still waiting for positive news about this.
Thanks!
jason Pre-order for Jax Emperor didn't work for me on the Mac Appstore from an Intel MacBook Pro. Clicking the price button just made it go away for a moment, then come back on. The TestFlight beta works fine on my MacBook.
The pre-order did work from the iPad though.
I was able to successfully pre-order on iOS and once I did the MacOS App Store reflected the purchase. I was just pointing out that the pre-order wouldn't work on the Mac. I don't know if that's a general issue with the Mac App Store, or perhaps related to my Mac being Intel based, or just a glitch.
It's not a problem as I was able to pre-order. I'm just bringing it to your attention in case you want to look into it further.
Oh - and Emperor is incorrectly spelled "Emporeor" on the US App Store. Maybe a language difference thing.