Mantis - BBD Echo by AudioThing (Released)

Gavinski

@Slush said:
One very cool thing to try is to set LFOs on the 4 echo (and/or swell) buttons with different slow speeds. This makes the delay pattern always unpredictable, as they randomly jump on and off, very cool.

That sounds good!

bygjohn

@Bietfriek said:

@bygjohn said:
There’s a guy on IG (and YT) called Papierblock who recently posted about having a dream/fantasy Radiophonic Workshop based on his iPad. AudioThing and other devs working in this space (Apesoft spring to mind) are what’s making this kind of thing possible. I for one am grateful.

About BBC/Natlab:
Thanks for that the tip! If it has your interest check “Kamer 306” (that’s Dutch and literally means “Room 306”). It’s all about Philips Natlab, the when, why and how. The documentary is in the Dutch language but English subtitles are available https://www.npostart.nl/kamer-306-kraamkamer-van-de-electronica/11-02-2013/WO_VPRO_118194
It’s always about the Radiophonic Workshop: John Baker, Delia Derbyshire etc. but if I’m correct the Philips Natlab “project” slightly predates the Radiophonic Workshop. Dick Raaijmakers also known as Kid Baltan/Dik Natlab worked with composers like Tom Dissevelt and I believe Henk Badings on new things with tape, oscillator banks and other strange instruments.

Since I’m Dutch myself, the Natlab has a special place in my heart. It’s a period of time in history that still reflects in nowadays music and technology. The use of electricity for generating “out of this world” sounds that were never heard before. Check “Song of the second moon” that is perhaps the first electronic popsong. And maybe they even used/created an early form of sampling and granular/micro sound stuff by recording, cutting, looping, slowing down/speeding up tape, re-record and repeat. Lots of the material is available on AppleMusic and perhaps Spotify, I also still have some CD Boxes and vinyl which add a bit to the atmosphere.

On-topic:
The lack of modulation on Mantis and other Audiothing plug-ins made me search for some kind of modulation app. Just a basic app with LFO’s, sequencers, envelopes, random generators, clock dividers/multipliers etc. Now i’ve read that GSDSP is busy with MMM (that’s not available yet). It seems nice but if it’s price is the same as their other plug-ins, I have to think twice . However, yesterday I discovered that miRack does the job exactly and very well in AUM and I guess other hosts too. Al the above and more is already in there. Pretty strange, it’s on my iPad for a while now and I never looked at it for modulation. Lesson learned!

Thanks for the information re Natlab - I’ve heard of it, but not the music that came out of it, so I’ll follow that up.

And yes, MiRack is great for modulation via CC. If I want just a basic LFO it’s usually easier to use something like Rozeta or mLFO (usually Rozeta in my case, probably as it’s higher up the list of AUv3s in AUM!), but for anything more complex, especially when incorporating other iOS apps in a MiRack/AUM patch, the range of options in MiRack is amazing.

JeffChasteen

If you already use RatshackReverb for box of hell fun, does this one really add much more?

JeffChasteen

@Gavinski said:

@HotStrange said:

@Slush said:

@oat_phipps said:
I think it sucks. Refunded, and absolutely will pass on these guys from now on. Wasted a few bucks on their mini fx as well. Poor quality, poor UI experience. Don’t get the love at all.

Poor quality…? It’s a remake of vintage 70s BBD, what did you expect?! TfxEcho for example is a pristine sounding BBD, but Mantis supposed to sound like the original unit, very yesterday’s technology. (And with all respect, but I think the UI is great, these large sliders work very well).

Yeah I don’t get the hate for AudioThing. I love their stuff. TfxEcho is awesome too. So is his reverb.

That 'hate' is partly a reaction to how much some people like their stuff, and also partly just that their apps have a certain niche appeal. It's like the Smiths were - you either loved them or hated them.

I Iike this dev a lot, and their interfaces, just want to see a bit of a slower release schedule, I think that would make most sense for all concerned, plus just being a bit careful in varying up the types of apps that get put out from one release to the next. Given their vast back catalogue, that should be easy.

I never hated the Smiths. I just hate the way they sound.

Slush

@JeffChasteen said:
If you already use RatshackReverb for box of hell fun, does this one really add much more?

Yes, this is a true delay and you can add different patterns to your delay/swell line, sync and so on, way more advanced. Ratshack is very limited.

Bietfriek

@Slush said:

@JeffChasteen said:
If you already use RatshackReverb for box of hell fun, does this one really add much more?

Yes, this is a true delay and you can add different patterns to your delay/swell line, sync and so on, way more advanced. Ratshack is very limited.

Mantis has a longer delay, more options but is also a bit more dark. I’m happy I’ve got them both.

Gavinski

@Slush said:

@JeffChasteen said:
If you already use RatshackReverb for box of hell fun, does this one really add much more?

Yes, this is a true delay and you can add different patterns to your delay/swell line, sync and so on, way more advanced. Ratshack is very limited.

Seconded - Ratshack you have very little control, though it still oozes character and is worth having if you like things a bit grimy and nasty!

JeffChasteen

@Slush said:

@JeffChasteen said:
If you already use RatshackReverb for box of hell fun, does this one really add much more?

Yes, this is a true delay and you can add different patterns to your delay/swell line, sync and so on, way more advanced. Ratshack is very limited.

Thanks

bangzero

will Mantis do the electric guitar + MemoryMan short, rythmic delay sound? there's something a bit magical about that combo imho.

Slush

Testing Mantis (beta, no more glitches from the sliders). Such a wonderful delay, like all their stuff.
Lagrange for the chords.

Gavinski

Yep, previous issues fixed in the beta and it is a very, very nice analogue delay emulation

eylvy

@Slush said:
Testing Mantis (beta, no more glitches from the sliders). Such a wonderful delay, like all their stuff.
Lagrange for the chords.

That's some sweet dub techno, good one!

Slush

@eylvy Thanks

david_2017

Nice dub techno jam! Great!

@Slush said:
Testing Mantis (beta, no more glitches from the sliders). Such a wonderful delay, like all their stuff.
Lagrange for the chords.

Proppa

Excellent track @Slush

Out of all the delays I own Mantis is maybe the single best at helping things jump out or meld in to a mix. Almost inexplicably so.

On paper it’s similar in concept to other “retro delay” plugs but in use something much larger than the sum of its parts. At least for me / all subjective and all.

HotStrange

@Proppa said:
Excellent track @Slush

Out of all the delays I own Mantis is maybe the single best at helping things jump out or meld in to a mix. Almost inexplicably so.

On paper it’s similar in concept to other “retro delay” plugs but in use something much larger than the sum of its parts. At least for me / all subjective and all.

Agreed. This was the only AudioThing release I was a bit skeptical on because there have been SO MANY vintage delays lately, but it really does stand on its own. Very very good.

Slush

Thanks you!🙏🏻 (still needs a final recording/mastering )
I like the Rotafaze part of this unit, it gives kind of a melodramatic spin to the sound. Mantis saturates very warm. And it’s not really lofi if you don’t want it to be. With the GSI Echo B2 for example, you are kind stuck with this wobble fx, even with the hiss off it’s still hard to place in a clean track. (But a great delay as well).

Fingolfinzz

@oat_phipps said:

@Bietfriek said:
I’ve got quite some Audiothing plugins that I use within Bitwig and currently bought every iOS release. What I like about Audiothing is that every plug I have is chock-full of character. Personally I like that but I’m also a big fan of old electronic and tape music. Although perhaps relatively short in comparison with others but I discovered the Philips Natlab and BBC Radiophonic about sixteen years ago. The sounds they created back then give me a certain feeling (nostalgic, timeless, sci-fi/out of this wold). That’s way before Hainbach became “popular” so that doesn’t influence me directly. But I think it’s also thanks to Hainbach that we got Gong, Dials, Noises and Gauss. Those plug-ins enable me to get closer to that feeling. Valhalla Delay (not iOS) also has a nice BBD function and even more algorithms (if I had to choose I would go for Valhalla instead of Mantis).

But eventually we are free to like or dislike what we want. No one can please everyone.

Precisely. The main thing I don’t like about them is that their character feels corny, though. Potato potahto

The thing is that you always buy stuff, return it, which hurts the dev, and then talk negatively on the product as if it were not good on the forum because you don’t like it

oat_phipps

Always? Nah. I’ve maybe gotten 15-20 refunds total over 9 years. And criticizing something I don’t like amongst a forum largely filled with people so desperate for cheap apps that they praise everything? God forbid people think twice before smashing buy. There’s so little information on most apps out there.

Look, it’s up to you to realize that I’m just one guy and one opinion. I don’t know what else to tell you.

Edit: I will say that it’s fair to say I sometimes subconsciously “lean into” being the criticism guy since almost no one else will, but I’m very aware and consider everything I post before I hit send. If I comment on something, I have spent a good amount of time with it (unless it immediately sucks, which is obvious when it happens).

ervin

As a side note, AUBE is proving itself nearly every day to be a brilliant gatekeeper:

Me: This Mantis thing sounds interesting. How many delay plugins do I already have?

AUBE: 32, not counting multis. Half of which you couldn't even name off the cuff. Pathetic, mate.

Me: Harsh but fair. Cheers.

Slush

@oat_phipps said:
Always? Nah. I’ve maybe gotten 15-20 refunds total over 9 years. And criticizing something I don’t like amongst a forum largely filled with people so desperate for cheap apps that they praise everything? God forbid people think twice before smashing buy. There’s so little information on most apps out there.

Look, it’s up to you to realize that I’m just one guy and one opinion. I don’t know what else to tell you.

Edit: I will say that it’s fair to say I sometimes subconsciously “lean into” being the criticism guy since almost no one else will, but I’m very aware and consider everything I post before I hit send. If I comment on something, I have spent a good amount of time with it (unless it immediately sucks, which is obvious when it happens).

You didn’t reply on me, but I just want to share my 2 cents with you.
You can’t say about an app ‘it sucks’.. Unless you are 12 years old, which I assume you are not, so really, what does that mean? Is it full of bugs, does it crash, does it not sound like the real thing at all, that would be reasonable arguments. It might not be your thing, fair enough!

Mantis is a repro of the original unit, so you don’t like that sort of sound, you don’t like the charm and the quirks of this unit, I understand. With a little research you could’ve known that, but ok. It doesn’t suck, it is what it is. Any tool in the right hands can do wonders. I own KQ Dixie and can’t make chocolate from it. Does that mean it sucks? No man, I suck at it!
You spend a good amount of time with Mantis and didn’t like it, who cares, you tried it, did a refund, it’s not for you. But it’s unfair to the developers to say it just sucks without any real arguments.

And with all respect, I don’t want all this nonsense to turn into any hard feelings. That would definitely suck.

oat_phipps

@Slush said:

@oat_phipps said:
Always? Nah. I’ve maybe gotten 15-20 refunds total over 9 years. And criticizing something I don’t like amongst a forum largely filled with people so desperate for cheap apps that they praise everything? God forbid people think twice before smashing buy. There’s so little information on most apps out there.

Look, it’s up to you to realize that I’m just one guy and one opinion. I don’t know what else to tell you.

Edit: I will say that it’s fair to say I sometimes subconsciously “lean into” being the criticism guy since almost no one else will, but I’m very aware and consider everything I post before I hit send. If I comment on something, I have spent a good amount of time with it (unless it immediately sucks, which is obvious when it happens).

You didn’t reply on me, but I just want to share my 2 cents with you.
You can’t say about an app ‘it sucks’.. Unless you are 12 years old, which I assume you are not, so really, what does that mean? Is it full of bugs, does it crash, does it not sound like the real thing at all, that would be reasonable arguments. It might not be your thing, fair enough!

Mantis is a repro of the original unit, so you don’t like that sort of sound, you don’t like the charm and the quirks of this unit, I understand. With a little research you could’ve known that, but ok. It doesn’t suck, it is what it is. Any tool in the right hands can do wonders. I own KQ Dixie and can’t make chocolate from it. Does that mean it sucks? No man, I suck at it!
You spend a good amount of time with Mantis and didn’t like it, who cares, you tried it, did a refund, it’s not for you. But it’s unfair to the developers to say it just sucks without any real arguments.

And with all respect, I don’t want all this nonsense to turn into any hard feelings. That would definitely suck.

You have a point that I can understand; however, I feel it’s an over-sensitive one. Sometimes ya just need to simply say something sucks and then move on. And I did. It was a single post and then a follow up to a poster who agreed with me.

No worries, life rolls on. I get your side, it’s ultimately more mature, but where’s the amusement in that.