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Comments
I love Tera Pro too, but find the interface way harder to navigate and more frustrating than ButterSynth on iPhone, with all the scrolling around. If you’re getting all you need from Tera Pro though, you’re probably doing the right thing getting a refund on BS. I always find it interesting how different interfaces work intuitively for different people.
Same! It’s like with the Icegear apps , I’ve read complaints about the iPhone versions with the horizontal scrolling, but I’ve used them SO much that I can speed through the pages pretty fast . Hell I have a patch in LaGrange I made I titled “47 Seconds” because that’s how long it took for me to make it (broke my old record of 1:21 in BLEASS Omega 😂). Yet it’s hard for me to make a patch in Flowtones cause I keep getting lost .
Everyone works differently and I find it fascinating.
Yes I was expecting something like Pigments on IOS but BS cannot compete. I don’t know if it is because of the included presets that are not showing the full potential or if it is the engine that is not flexible enough…
I absolutely love the UI of ButterSynth, everything is so clear. It’s not as rich-sounding as some wavetable synths but that could just be me not putting enough time into it, so many synths this year so little time.
ButterSynth is powerful, but it’s very wavetable…and that is not for everybody
My most used synths are these…
1. Tera Pro & all IAPs
2. Kaspar
3. Animoog
4. Aparillo
5. ButterSynth
I really had to ponder this and look at my app usage hahaha
Kaspar is an amazing synth.
Not sure what my top 5 most used would be. Maybe Mela, Trooper, Tera Pro, Buttersynth, PSP.
Intentionally left off apps like Fundamental that are mostly synth adjacent.
Oh I totally agree with you about Icegear. The big difference with their synths on iPhone is that there’s only horizontal scroll and no vertical scroll. Don’t get me wrong, I love having Tera pro on iPhone, it’d just be easier if it didnt scale past 100% vertically.
My top 5 (although it’s changing over the past month) this year are :
Wow, forgot i bought kaspar. This thing looks amazing. Screen is not resizing when loaded as an au though.
Those Icework synths are really amazing. Kronocker is my personal favorite. Very unique and beautiful sounding.
It can make some REALLY bizarre sounds too… this was entirely done in Kroenecker 😂
https://fear2stop.bandcamp.com/track/wtf-the-laughing-sailor
Well i had a bit of GAS yesterday and considered to buy buttersynth. This thread cured me. Thanks 😄
fun fact - all above mentioned synths are most likely internally wavetable too, you just doesn't know about that
))) Vast majority of VA synths are using for oscillators internally just wavetables .. difference is that "wavetable synths" just give you opportunity to tweak those wavetables, and other synths have them just hidden inside code, in fixed configuration ... It's just better for CPU footprint, than "generating" all those waves mathematically in real time.
maybe except of early Roland Boutique models which are using ACB (eg. emulating whole thing at circuit compontents level) using just wavetables for oscillators is most commong method in DSP coding ..
Thanks for your honest words. Sorry to hear you are having problems with the synth.
Are you using a older model of an iPad? Is the CPU usage high when you experience the lag? Do you have oversampling enabled? Does it help if you lower the polyphony limit?
I think the lag could be caused by not having enough CPU power.
When changing the preset the synth automatically fades out/in to minimize the differences in the presets. Do you get noises every time you switch the presets or with some specific presets?
Yes you are right that when you purchase a product it should be perfect but it's impossible for me to test all different setups. Thats why I rely on customers to be understanding and provide as much information about the issues as possible so I can fix them.
Thanks,
-Arto
I am not aware of any soft synth that does not use LUT for the oscilator. It will be madness to force the CPU or GPU to run multiple cycles instead of just one using LUT to produce output.
I think the presets it comes with don’t show the real potential of this synth. I feel it can be quite good with the proper tweaks. At first I wasn’t knocked out by it, but with a little getting into it, it’s quite good.
Already refunded but the issue didn’t occur when changing presets, it came when playing a sequence of notes (live playing , not sequencing), and was happening with the init sound
Same. I’ve made some of my favorite synth patches on Buttersynth.
I made my first preset pack on ButterSynth. I found it so easy to dial in sounds. Most of what I did just used the 2 Wavetables and noise. I love that all of these patches can have additional layers, with the FM, sample upload etc. not to mention super flexible modulation options.
I think part of the reason it has some teething issues is just how ambitious it is. It’s waaaay deeper than the vast majority of the iOS synths I own.
For sure. It’s a super deep app. I don’t even think I’ve scratched the surface of the sounds it’s capable of and I’ve had it since the beta first launched. You can really make just about anything it seems.
Even for its faults I’m glad it’s here. Sucks that it’s been bad for some people, though. Hope those issues will get sorted.
As i mentioned, Roland in their ACB engine (used in first batch of Boutique synths - all those with low polyphony are basicaly ACB based) is using completely different approach - they emulate all analogue circuits down to component level (like behaviour of resistors, capacitors, transistors, etc). That's reason why they can do such low polyphony, it's very DSP demanding.
I don’t see any document confirming this. What Roland did is nothing more than what Korg (CMT) and Moog are already doing with their soft synth recreations. In essence, every significant component on those devices has its own pre-calculated table or simple behavior algorithm.
Those ACB Boutique devices are not even close to having the CPU power to run so many floating-point calculations. Roland ESC2 is on the pair with the Raspberry Pi 2 in its power.
BTW, good to see you back posting frequently! 🫡
Look up tables are either large or still need interpolation - too large and cache misses beckon. CPUs now are far more potent in directly running algorithms than they were when I started out on VA development.
https://rolandcorp.com.au/blog/what-is-analog-circuit-behaviour-acb
or here:
https://www.rolandus.com/blog/2014/02/14/analog-circuit-behavior-acb/
Yes but there is not wavetable and classic DSP wavetable oscillator .. that is what i meant .. there are models of individual analog circuitry components, ACB is very different approach from mainstream DSP modelling synth method ..
Also i don't think AIRA series (especially System1 and System8) and early Boutique models were runing on Pi 2 .. To my knowledge there was regular DSP processor inside (or multiple ones in System8 case)
This is true, but oversampled interpolation is still a lot faster than using multiple trigonometric functions for subsamples. Unless you use approximations, which are fine for things like LFOs, but not for oscillators running at 4x sample rate
Disclaimer - I'm just a designer mucking about with C. So the real math&code gurus may have better strategies than me
A long time ago, DSPs were better for that purpose than CPUs, today, in the RISC-ARM kingdom, not so much. The only efficiency left over from RISC was the price of production and handling of interrupts and low-latency input and output.
I read through those Roland marketing pages, I watched their promo videos, and however their intention was to make SF Opera from simple technology, it didn't work on me. 😂
I have ACB in my Roland fantom6 ex, it’s nice…but yes very cpu hungry…in fact one can only have it running on the 1st track of 16 (1 instance only), and the polyphony reflects the actual synth it’s modeled from and doesn’t go up from there. All the wavetable stuff @Dendy was very interesting and I didn’t know about that at all. Good to see you on the posts again!
Not entirely true.. DSP procesors still have edge in certain types of instructions specialised for audio DSP processing, where on RISC/ARM you have just general instructions sets .. so some type of operations (often repeated in audio DSP code) you can do on DSP with singe instruction where on RISC/ARM you need few instructions or even loop ..
Also completely higher level of performance are FPGA chips which are way more performant cause they can be highly optimalised for certain type of operations. For example Novation Peak or Waldorf Kyra are using FPGA chips
(yeah i know we are messing here together 2 unrelated things - hw chips technology and how analogy synth emulatiom is written from the point of view of code - it's just natural flow of discussion, it branches to multiple threads like multiverse on every quantum event)
well, it's pure fact .. ACB doesn't use classic wavetables for their oscullators .. that's main reason why all those ACB based synths have so low polyphony .. Also they sound better than next generation of Boutiques which are using other technology - allowing them higher polyphony but also doing comproimise on sound quality.
Maybe that's why they later switched to ZendCore, especially for their groovebox product line - cause this is just classic ordinary DSP code which allows much higher polyphony ...
I’ll not argue with you on this one, because I agree and have already said so. Also, my experience in low-level programming was on a CISC architecture, the same as any DSP. What I was trying to imply is how recent technology has advanced so much that today SoCs can replace so many DSPs of the past, in particular floating point calculations.
I compared the Roland ESC2 with the Raspberry Pi 2 (ARM Cortex-A53), and this 64-bit CPU has floating point units per core, it also has DSP-SIMD extensions per core. It would be madness to use just general instructions, as you said.
I will stop derailing this thread now. 🫣