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App Store to Be 'Split in Two' Ahead of EU iPhone Sideloading Deadline

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Comments

  • wimwim
    edited January 17

    @Simon said:

    @wim said:

    @day_empire said:
    ... The problem is that Apple is a huge monopoly.

    Except that they're not a monopoly. Huge yes, a monopoly, no.

    The biggest monopoly is the EU. They need to be split up and regulated. LOL :smiley:

    Considering that at more than $2 trillion Apple is valued at more than the GDP of every individual country in the EU except Germany and (maybe) France, it's not surprising they want to band together. 😎

  • edited January 17

    This is very simple.. devs who like apple exosystem will stay in Appstore. Users who are afraid of third party apps will keep buying apps just from Appstore. They will not be harmed in any way by opportunity install third party apps, nobody will force them to use such apps.

    So i really don't understand what about is all this discussion. It's not about completely cancelling appstore. You can stay with it and pretend other option just doesn't exist.

    If some apps you eant to use will be available just outside of AppSotre well you just must accept it's the choice of developer. Developer doesn't owe anything tomfuture potential user, it's his business and his free choice.

    This is about freedom. Not allowing it (current situation) is like centralization of power and controlling people's decisions. It helps a lot people - for example devs from Russia who are now crippled by completely retarded exonomic sanctions which are impacting mostly just ordinary innocent people and not really government, cause they found other ways to ago around them.

    If there is choice between centralization and decentralization i ALWAYS choose decentralization because amongst other things it forces people to think more and to be more responsible for own actions, instead of relying on "big brother" who thinks on behalf of them.

  • wimwim
    edited January 17

    @dendy said:
    This is very simple.. devs who like apple exosystem will stay in Appstore. Users who are afraid of third party apps will keep nuyimg apps just from Appstore. They will not be harmed in any way from opportunity for those who don't like AppStore having other possibility.

    So i really don't understand what about is all this discussion. It's not about completely csncelling appstore. You csn stay with it and pretend other option jsut doesn't exist.

    To me it's not about what, but how. I just don't think this rises to something the government should force. I'm happy to see competition for the App Store though.

    If some apps you eant to use will be available just outside of AppSotre well you just must accept it's the choice of developer. Developer doesn't owe anything tomfuture potential user, it's his business and his free choice.

    This is about freedom. Not allowing it (current situation) is like centralization of power and controlling people's decisions.

    On the other hand, it is about centralization of power. Government power. Controlling private entities' decisions. And putting free market decisions in the hands of bureaucrats. It's a slippery slope. But where one believes government should exert such control is a personal and subjective opinion.

    If there is choice between centralization and decentralization i ALWAYS choose decentralization because amongsnother things it forces people to more thinkg and to be more responsible for own actions, instead of relying on "big brother" who thinks on behalf of them.

    Same ... but for substitute Government for Corporation in the thinking about decentralization. 😂

    Anyway I'm doing my best not to be controversial, but probably utterly failing, so I'll walk away quietly now.

    Last word though? Competition is good. I'll bet it drives a better Apple App Store, more choices for developers and consumers, an overall improvement to the development economy ... and yes, a few perfectly resolvable negative side effects.

  • @Simon said:

    @wim said:

    @day_empire said:
    ... The problem is that Apple is a huge monopoly.

    Except that they're not a monopoly. Huge yes, a monopoly, no.

    The biggest monopoly is the EU. They need to be split up and regulated. LOL :smiley:

    Or at least allow Tassie apples back in there again…..talking about closed eco systems.

  • edited January 17

    @SevenSystems said:
    Also, I'm a bit suspicious of the idea "If something is happening, it must be good for the people, otherwise it wouldn't be happening" 🥴 that sounds a bit too optimistic to me!

    Indeed. This is only good for massive game publishing outlets like Epic (who forced this change). For small time devs like most of us I only foresee added risks at this point.

    I have no issues with the 15% that Apple wants for the services they provide. I'd be surprised if there were cheaper alternative services who will handle payment, international taxes and software logistics for me.

  • The EU has a bit of a history now of writing consumer rights into law, if only in that part of the world at times.

    Just another case, and as with - for example - the right to repair, I do not see a bad side to it. After all, no one has to repair rather than replace.

    Those that want to make use of this and can, will have the option. Those that can’t or don’t want to, can choose to simply ignore its existence. Simple, really.

  • @brambos said:

    @SevenSystems said:
    Also, I'm a bit suspicious of the idea "If something is happening, it must be good for the people, otherwise it wouldn't be happening" 🥴 that sounds a bit too optimistic to me!

    Indeed. This is only good for massive game publishing outlets like Epic (who forced this change). For small time devs like most of us I only foresee added risks at this point.

    I have no issues with the 15% that Apple wants for the services they provide. I'd be surprised if there were cheaper alternative services who will handle payment, international taxes and software logistics for me.

    Well said @brambos. I can’t help think of the security aspect of all this - not sure what additional risks this is going to cause. But sure someone in this forum will enlighten us ;)

  • I read on Reddit that the EU is considering only allowing the sale of music apps that sequence in 5/4 time. If this happens, it’s the end for all types of dance music. And you won’t read about THAT in the mainstream media!

  • edited January 17

    @purpan2 said:
    I read on Reddit that the EU is considering only allowing the sale of music apps that sequence in 5/4 time. If this happens, it’s the end for all types of dance music. And you won’t read about THAT in the mainstream media!

    Source?
    Nice joke though 😊

  • edited January 17

    @dendy said:
    This is about freedom.

    Apple would say they are being denied the freedom to run their business the best way.

    If there is choice between centralization and decentralization i ALWAYS choose decentralization because amongst other things it forces people to think more and to be more responsible for own actions, instead of relying on "big brother" who thinks on behalf of them.

    Surley you can't get more "Big Brother" than the EU...?

    Sorry, I couldn't resist... :smiley:

  • Corporations aren’t people. The cultish delusion that they are will be looked at in history as an oddity, if we even survive to have the capacity for the study of history following the impact that they’ve had over the past centuries…

  • edited January 17

    @Simon said:

    @dendy said:
    This is about freedom.

    Apple would say they are being denied the freedom to run their business the best way.

    If there is choice between centralization and decentralization i ALWAYS choose decentralization because amongst other things it forces people to think more and to be more responsible for own actions, instead of relying on "big brother" who thinks on behalf of them.

    Surley you can't get more "Big Brother" than the EU...?

    Sorry, I couldn't resist... :smiley:

    How is this particular example "big brotherish" ? Giving to users more freedom to choose where they wany download apps and to developers more freedom to choose how they will be distributing apps ?

    Personally i have lot of problems with EU (their regulation of AI is absolute nonsense for example and will harm entire european industry in irreversible way, also MICA regulation for cryptocurrencies is monstrous bullshit created by people obviously lagging about 5 years behing developement in crypto and lot of other crap eurobureaucrats produced), but this one in particular is just good thing which doesn't harm anybody (except of Apple but that is in my opinion good thing :lol: )

    I am really failing to understand people who don't like this. Like what negative aspect it may have to them ? Is there somebody forcing them to do something ? No.

  • @dendy said:
    How is this particular example "big brotherish" ?

    Depends if you are on Apple's end or the consumer's end.

  • edited January 17

    @Simon said:

    @dendy said:
    How is this particular example "big brotherish" ?

    Depends if you are on Apple's end or the consumer's end.

    Well, i am always on consumer end and developers end. This is not even in discussion. Didn't noticed here some official Apple spokesman in this thread talking on behalf of Apple.

    So i am here wondering why consumer or developer would dislike this move. This is something out of my understanding. They may decide no not use it, that is completely ok, but be against it ? Don't see any rational reason.

    Multinational corporations must be controlled, they doesn't need to be helped or protected cause they have own army of lawyers so they can pretty much protect on their own. It's pretty obvious Apple will not like this move cause it reduces their profits :lol: Corporation is bad guy here, always will be, becasue really profit is only thing they are interested, they give zero fuck about what people want as soon as it doesn't increase their profits.

    It is not often than Eurobureaucrats are doing something atually good for people, but this one particular case is shining exception.

  • @Krupa said:
    Corporations aren’t people. The cultish delusion that they are will be looked at in history as an oddity, if we even survive to have the capacity for the study of history following the impact that they’ve had over the past centuries…

    Hear hear

  • edited January 17

    And there are a bunch of apps that are not allowed on the Apple Store that I would like to see.

    Virtual machines, full blown programming environments (for arduinos etc…), Chrome browser with midi out.

    Then my IPad could legitimately start thinking about replacing my Mac.

  • edited January 17

    For me biggest potential advantage of sideloading is alternative payment system. I really hope at least indie devs starts offering cryptocurrencies as alternative way of payment cause i am more and more disgusted by fiat currencies and banking system as such and i want to pay as much as possible everywhere with crypto. I am slowly moving all my cash reserves into crypto and want to hold fiat just in smallest possible amount, inevitable just for minimum daily expenses...

    So, this potential outcome of appstore independence would be really great for me.

  • edited January 17

    @dendy said:
    Well, i am always on consumer end and developers end. This is not even in discussion. Didn't noticed here some official Apple spokesman in this thread talking on behalf of Apple.

    I'm not a corporation, I'm a consumer so I am generally on the side of the consumer. But I recognise that it is more complex than that.

    If you want a lot of things of modern life you need corporations. Like electricity. Refridgeration. Cars. Mobile phones and iPads. Supermarkets full of easy to access food. Airlines. Medical products, not to mention the internet and many other things.

    I am all for companies being held to strict rules to protect consumers, especially with safety (like airline or medical safety). But I am also aware that there is a thing called "fairness" and we have to be fair to consumers as well as business, especially if you want people to invest in business.

    Exactly where "the line in the sand" is, I'm not sure. And I'm not sure if "where people can download apps" is such a serious matter needing the EU to regulate.

    But I guess it is going to happen and we'll see how it goes.

  • As love bombs rain down from the sky, they’ll find another fish to fry,

    Tend the EUtopian garden whilst the jungle burns.

    First world, third world problems on collision course….

  • edited January 17

    @cyberheater said:
    And there are a bunch of apps that are not allowed on the Apple Store that I would like to see.

    Virtual machines, full blown programming environments (for arduinos etc…), Chrome browser with midi out.

    Then my IPad could legitimately start thinking about replacing my Mac.

    The only thing I miss on iPad is a full blown file manager, just like my favorite since early 1990s - Total Commander (www.ghisler.com)

    A file manager handling every compression format, search & replace filenames, batch renaming files (even extensions), yeah, double view of two devices or folders at once, the list can be long…

    Perhaps some sort of Windows emulator would be nice - have a few win-apps from the past that I sometime run and use.

  • Bring on the emulators is all I'm gonna say on this topic, imagine the joy of using Giorgio Sancristoforo's apps on an ipad!

  • @HolyMoses said:
    The only thing I miss on iPad is a full blown file manager, just like my favorite since early 1990s - Total Commander (www.ghisler.com)

    A file manager handling every compression format, search & replace filenames, batch renaming files (even extensions), yeah, double view of two devices or folders at once, the list can be long…

    Completely understand. After 30 years with TC I was surprised that there is nothing close to this on iOS. In the end I chose FileBrowser Professional, but I'm still not completely satisfied.

  • @rygrob said:
    Here's a preview of what's to come:

    https://x.com/dhh/status/1747406430054097099?s=20

    If that's true it's crazy, it reads like the ramblings of a despotic tyrant.
    worth posting here:

  • @cyberheater said:
    And there are a bunch of apps that are not allowed on the Apple Store that I would like to see.

    Virtual machines, full blown programming environments (for arduinos etc…), Chrome browser with midi out.

    Then my IPad could legitimately start thinking about replacing my Mac.

    I would very much prefer a touch enabled MacOS on iPad running the iOS apps we already own.
    A lot of iPad restrictions come from the iPhone and don't really make sense on the iPad imo.

  • edited January 17

    @distantstar said:
    The EU has a bit of a history now of writing consumer rights into law, if only in that part of the world at times.

    Yes, the EU in general has a history of writing laws, often in overzealous and intrusive ways.

    While that alone introduces many complications and inefficiency, the innocent sounding "only in that part of the world" bit makes it 10 times worse, as we can see here -- every international service provider now has to fry a separate sausage for EU customers, increasing prices.

    Just another case, and as with - for example - the right to repair, I do not see a bad side to it. After all, no one has to repair rather than replace.

    The bad side is that manufacturing becomes less efficient and product quality worse, because in my view, many reasons for products not being easy to repair for the layman were of an engineering nature, not a "we are an evil big company wanting to rip off customers" one.

    (sorry sounding a bit grumpy here, only just had my morning coffee 🥴☕)

  • Mmmmm gaming emulators :)

    Bollox I'm not in the EU anymore, bloody Brexit

  • @dendy said:
    It's pretty obvious Apple will not like this move cause it reduces their profits :lol:

    Oh it won't. They'll just increase prices so it'll reduce customers' "profits" 😁

  • And now you have the option to bypass apple if you want to - both as customer or as dev.
    Otherwise this change will not affect you.

  • @FPC said:
    Mmmmm gaming emulators :)

    Bollox I'm not in the EU anymore, bloody Brexit

    For stuff like this the UK counts as being in the EU.

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