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Simple Audio Editor -- which feature to prioritize?

2

Comments

  • @SevenSystems said:
    BTW, the app is focused on efficient and quick editing, that's why there's full mouse support, and, importantly, extensive keyboard shortcuts!

    For me this is a 'whatever thing' as I don't use a mouse or keyboard with the iPad which for me is a 'Touch First' device and it will likely stay that way. If I wanted the iPad to be a 'laptop replacement' I would have gotten a MacBook Air instead...
    ...I do use the Apple Pencil from time to time :sunglasses:

  • @Samu said:

    @SevenSystems said:
    BTW, the app is focused on efficient and quick editing, that's why there's full mouse support, and, importantly, extensive keyboard shortcuts!

    For me this is a 'whatever thing' as I don't use a mouse or keyboard with the iPad which for me is a 'Touch First' device and it will likely stay that way. If I wanted the iPad to be a 'laptop replacement' I would have gotten a MacBook Air instead...
    ...I do use the Apple Pencil from time to time :sunglasses:

    I agree and personally find it strange too that suddenly, the concepts of touch and desktop devices get muddled up in the past few years. It also makes an already difficult task (designing UI/UX) near impossible for these devices. But it seems to be "The Future™"...

  • @SevenSystems said:

    I agree and personally find it strange too that suddenly, the concepts of touch and desktop devices get muddled up in the past few years. It also makes an already difficult task (designing UI/UX) near impossible for these devices. But it seems to be "The Future™"...

    As long as there are no 'keyboard / mouse only' features it's perfectly ok.
    Imagine the horror if zoom could to be done with a scroll-wheel and no pinch gesture was available :D

    It may sound silly but the primary appeal for me when it comes to using an iPad is to be able to touch things which make me feel way more connected with the content than using a keyboard and mouse.

    The Apple Pencil is a 'good middle-ground' and I really enjoy using it for painting and drawing automation curves etc.
    (And in some cases when UI elements of an app are so small that it's practically impossible to use the fingers).

    For me as long as I can easily do a selection with optional snaps and do basic operations on the selection it's all good.

    I have to say that the way you implemented the filtering is pretty darn slick!

    Looking forward to the day when we can get our fingers (or for some mouse and keyboard) on this one!

    Cheers!

  • @Samu said:

    @SevenSystems said:

    I agree and personally find it strange too that suddenly, the concepts of touch and desktop devices get muddled up in the past few years. It also makes an already difficult task (designing UI/UX) near impossible for these devices. But it seems to be "The Future™"...

    As long as there are no 'keyboard / mouse only' features it's perfectly ok.
    Imagine the horror if zoom could to be done with a scroll-wheel and no pinch gesture was available :D

    No worries! The same great touch UI / UX as Xequence!

    It may sound silly but the primary appeal for me when it comes to using an iPad is to be able to touch things which make me feel way more connected with the content than using a keyboard and mouse.

    I totally get that. I couldn't sit down at a desktop anymore, ever, to make music.

    The Apple Pencil is a 'good middle-ground' and I really enjoy using it for painting and drawing automation curves etc.
    (And in some cases when UI elements of an app are so small that it's practically impossible to use the fingers).

    I've never had or used an Apple Pencil, but if there's any significant interaction problems with it that can be easily solved here without actually using one, we should be able to fix this during the beta. Or maybe someone will sponsor a Pencil for me 🥴

    I have to say that the way you implemented the filtering is pretty darn slick!

    Thanks! I must admit I was a bit proud of it too 😄 definitely has a "No Bullshit" sticker on it... although for V1.1, I'd probably want to add a 10-band graphic EQ or so...

    Looking forward to the day when we can get our fingers (or for some mouse and keyboard) on this one!

    Should be in the next couple of days, given no huge natural, political or personal disasters happen (this always has to be emphasized since around 2020...)

  • I love your interfaces @SevenSystems so this is very interesting.

    iPhone support and ability to load as an auv3 would be essential for me personally.

  • @gregsmith said:
    I love your interfaces @SevenSystems so this is very interesting.

    Thanks!

    iPhone support and ability to load as an auv3 would be essential for me personally.

    iPhone support is there.

    AUv3 -- I don't know... a sample editor as a plug-in? It's a bit of a stretch... what I could potentially imagine is an "adapter" plug-in that lets you easily record into the "proper" app that's running in parallel.

  • @SevenSystems said:
    AUv3 -- I don't know... a sample editor as a plug-in? It's a bit of a stretch... what I could potentially imagine is an "adapter" plug-in that lets you easily record into the "proper" app that's running in parallel.

    This is looking great @SevenSystems !

    AUv3 is essential in my workflow also. It basically becomes part of your chain where you can hear the edits you are making in real-time without having to jump back to standalone, save to files, jump bank to your DAW, find the file to load into a sequencer etc.

    Generally, I have really landed on the ‘If it isn’t a DAW then it needs to be an AUv3’ way of thinking.

  • @SevenSystems said:

    @gregsmith said:
    I love your interfaces @SevenSystems so this is very interesting.

    Thanks!

    iPhone support and ability to load as an auv3 would be essential for me personally.

    iPhone support is there.

    AUv3 -- I don't know... a sample editor as a plug-in? It's a bit of a stretch... what I could potentially imagine is an "adapter" plug-in that lets you easily record into the "proper" app that's running in parallel.

    Excellent news about iPhone!

    Something that lets you edit the audio but also supports basic playback as an auv3 audio source like AA sample player would be good. I do it all with koala at the moment but something simpler would be nice sometimes. What’s great about this approach is that everything is saved within the koala auv3 state, and therefore contained within a single project file from the host daw.

  • @SevenSystems It might be handy to be able to use AUv3's to process the recorded audio, some audio-editors already support this (WaveBox, TwistedWave and Neon).

  • @gusgranite @gregsmith @Samu I appreciate the feedback and agree on the usefulness. However, as soon as AUv3 is in the picture in any way, the project becomes more complicated by roughly an order of magnitude, while maybe doubling the potential sales (I'd say this app actually has a bigger market among "mainstream" users that do not even know what AUv3 is, than "pro" musicians that use AUv3).

    Hate to disappoint and I totally get your points, and appreciate the ideas and future testing! But for now, the app will have to stay standalone. However, it does support import of files via drag & drop and "Open" popping up the standard iOS file selector, and saving to the standard iOS file selector, or directly via a Share Sheet.

    (registering it for audio file types so that it appears in "Open In" is also likely.)

  • @SevenSystems said:

    @Samu said:

    @SevenSystems said:
    BTW, the app is focused on efficient and quick editing, that's why there's full mouse support, and, importantly, extensive keyboard shortcuts!

    For me this is a 'whatever thing' as I don't use a mouse or keyboard with the iPad which for me is a 'Touch First' device and it will likely stay that way. If I wanted the iPad to be a 'laptop replacement' I would have gotten a MacBook Air instead...
    ...I do use the Apple Pencil from time to time :sunglasses:

    I agree and personally find it strange too that suddenly, the concepts of touch and desktop devices get muddled up in the past few years. It also makes an already difficult task (designing UI/UX) near impossible for these devices. But it seems to be "The Future™"...

    Actually, I have found keyboard shortcut support useful in the past with audio editing, not that I do much editing in general, so I reckon that's a plus point. Loads of ipad users use their iPad with a Bluetooth keyboard. Even just something like being able to press a key to create a slice point can be super convenient and much more relaxing than doing it with your hand

  • @Gavinski said:

    @SevenSystems said:

    @Samu said:

    @SevenSystems said:
    BTW, the app is focused on efficient and quick editing, that's why there's full mouse support, and, importantly, extensive keyboard shortcuts!

    For me this is a 'whatever thing' as I don't use a mouse or keyboard with the iPad which for me is a 'Touch First' device and it will likely stay that way. If I wanted the iPad to be a 'laptop replacement' I would have gotten a MacBook Air instead...
    ...I do use the Apple Pencil from time to time :sunglasses:

    I agree and personally find it strange too that suddenly, the concepts of touch and desktop devices get muddled up in the past few years. It also makes an already difficult task (designing UI/UX) near impossible for these devices. But it seems to be "The Future™"...

    Actually, I have found keyboard shortcut support useful in the past with audio editing, not that I do much editing in general, so I reckon that's a plus point. Loads of ipad users use their iPad with a Bluetooth keyboard. Even just something like being able to press a key to create a slice point can be super convenient and much more relaxing than doing it with your hand

    I that case I vote for full midi-learn for all functions :sunglasses:

  • @Samu said:

    @Gavinski said:

    @SevenSystems said:

    @Samu said:

    @SevenSystems said:
    BTW, the app is focused on efficient and quick editing, that's why there's full mouse support, and, importantly, extensive keyboard shortcuts!

    For me this is a 'whatever thing' as I don't use a mouse or keyboard with the iPad which for me is a 'Touch First' device and it will likely stay that way. If I wanted the iPad to be a 'laptop replacement' I would have gotten a MacBook Air instead...
    ...I do use the Apple Pencil from time to time :sunglasses:

    I agree and personally find it strange too that suddenly, the concepts of touch and desktop devices get muddled up in the past few years. It also makes an already difficult task (designing UI/UX) near impossible for these devices. But it seems to be "The Future™"...

    Actually, I have found keyboard shortcut support useful in the past with audio editing, not that I do much editing in general, so I reckon that's a plus point. Loads of ipad users use their iPad with a Bluetooth keyboard. Even just something like being able to press a key to create a slice point can be super convenient and much more relaxing than doing it with your hand

    I that case I vote for full midi-learn for all functions :sunglasses:

    Yeah definitely, could be useful to do stuff like that with a midi controller too

  • edited February 4

    If it can’t be AUv3, the next best thing is to make it effortless to get audio clips in and out/to and from other apps. It was mentioned that drag-and-drop is supported 👍 if all the other standard methods are supported too…send to, open in, share, copy/paste, etc. I will be very happy.

  • Slight aside but maybe useful to seven, is there an audio editor that shows a beat/bar division grid while you’re selecting? I’ve been chopping out loops from some of my homegrown valve stuff again, and thought more than once that it’d be great to see that I’m getting the length right by seeing the beats visibly matching a grid… I hope this is understandably written…

  • @Shabudua said:
    If it can’t be AUv3, the next best thing is to make it effortless to get audio clips in and out/to and from other apps. It was mentioned that drag-and-drop is supported 👍 if all the other standard methods are supported too…send to, open in, share, copy/paste, etc. I will be very happy.

    Maybe a file browser which allows you to preview samples quickly like samplecrate

  • @Krupa said:
    Slight aside but maybe useful to seven, is there an audio editor that shows a beat/bar division grid while you’re selecting? I’ve been chopping out loops from some of my homegrown valve stuff again, and thought more than once that it’d be great to see that I’m getting the length right by seeing the beats visibly matching a grid… I hope this is understandably written…

    Auditor does it, somewhat. You either enter the file bpm manually or you select a certain amount of beats and tell it how many beats the section covers.
    You won't get a grid unfortunately but at least the time ruler will show bars and beats. Combined with the auto-slicing feature you get a beat sensitive grid which is quite useful.

  • @rs2000 said:

    @Krupa said:
    Slight aside but maybe useful to seven, is there an audio editor that shows a beat/bar division grid while you’re selecting? I’ve been chopping out loops from some of my homegrown valve stuff again, and thought more than once that it’d be great to see that I’m getting the length right by seeing the beats visibly matching a grid… I hope this is understandably written…

    Auditor does it, somewhat. You either enter the file bpm manually or you select a certain amount of beats and tell it how many beats the section covers.
    You won't get a grid unfortunately but at least the time ruler will show bars and beats. Combined with the auto-slicing feature you get a beat sensitive grid which is quite useful.

    Yeah it’s tricky as a lot of it is fairly organic and I’m trying to pick out sections that will act as loops, so predetermining the BPM is nigh on impossible, and probably not desirable as the loops turn out to be whatever length they are if that makes sense… maybe I’m best just sticking to doing it by ear/feel …

  • @Krupa said:

    @rs2000 said:

    @Krupa said:
    Slight aside but maybe useful to seven, is there an audio editor that shows a beat/bar division grid while you’re selecting? I’ve been chopping out loops from some of my homegrown valve stuff again, and thought more than once that it’d be great to see that I’m getting the length right by seeing the beats visibly matching a grid… I hope this is understandably written…

    Auditor does it, somewhat. You either enter the file bpm manually or you select a certain amount of beats and tell it how many beats the section covers.
    You won't get a grid unfortunately but at least the time ruler will show bars and beats. Combined with the auto-slicing feature you get a beat sensitive grid which is quite useful.

    Yeah it’s tricky as a lot of it is fairly organic and I’m trying to pick out sections that will act as loops, so predetermining the BPM is nigh on impossible, and probably not desirable as the loops turn out to be whatever length they are if that makes sense… maybe I’m best just sticking to doing it by ear/feel …

    Indeed 😉

  • @Krupa said:
    Slight aside but maybe useful to seven, is there an audio editor that shows a beat/bar division grid while you’re selecting? I’ve been chopping out loops from some of my homegrown valve stuff again, and thought more than once that it’d be great to see that I’m getting the length right by seeing the beats visibly matching a grid… I hope this is understandably written…

    The internal audio editor page in Nanostudio 2 does this. it’s a great editor, but for me it’s too much extra work getting audio into and out of NS2. There’s a real opportunity for a simple standalone audio editor that works like this.

  • @Shabudua said:

    @Krupa said:
    Slight aside but maybe useful to seven, is there an audio editor that shows a beat/bar division grid while you’re selecting? I’ve been chopping out loops from some of my homegrown valve stuff again, and thought more than once that it’d be great to see that I’m getting the length right by seeing the beats visibly matching a grid… I hope this is understandably written…

    The internal audio editor page in Nanostudio 2 does this. it’s a great editor, but for me it’s too much extra work getting audio into and out of NS2. There’s a real opportunity for a simple standalone audio editor that works like this.

    Is that the one in obsidian? It might be an interesting way to do it if I can figure it out, but yeah a standalone one, or as a feature in one of the existing ones would be great

  • @Krupa said:
    Slight aside but maybe useful to seven, is there an audio editor that shows a beat/bar division grid while you’re selecting? I’ve been chopping out loops from some of my homegrown valve stuff again, and thought more than once that it’d be great to see that I’m getting the length right by seeing the beats visibly matching a grid… I hope this is understandably written…

    Yes, bar and beat grid is available, including smart snapping. See below:

  • @Gavinski said:

    @SevenSystems said:

    @Samu said:

    @SevenSystems said:
    BTW, the app is focused on efficient and quick editing, that's why there's full mouse support, and, importantly, extensive keyboard shortcuts!

    For me this is a 'whatever thing' as I don't use a mouse or keyboard with the iPad which for me is a 'Touch First' device and it will likely stay that way. If I wanted the iPad to be a 'laptop replacement' I would have gotten a MacBook Air instead...
    ...I do use the Apple Pencil from time to time :sunglasses:

    I agree and personally find it strange too that suddenly, the concepts of touch and desktop devices get muddled up in the past few years. It also makes an already difficult task (designing UI/UX) near impossible for these devices. But it seems to be "The Future™"...

    Actually, I have found keyboard shortcut support useful in the past with audio editing, not that I do much editing in general, so I reckon that's a plus point. Loads of ipad users use their iPad with a Bluetooth keyboard. Even just something like being able to press a key to create a slice point can be super convenient and much more relaxing than doing it with your hand

    :) Full list of shortcuts is posted earlier in the thread. If anything there seems totally crazy, let me know and I'll correct it!

  • @Krupa said:

    @rs2000 said:

    @Krupa said:
    Slight aside but maybe useful to seven, is there an audio editor that shows a beat/bar division grid while you’re selecting? I’ve been chopping out loops from some of my homegrown valve stuff again, and thought more than once that it’d be great to see that I’m getting the length right by seeing the beats visibly matching a grid… I hope this is understandably written…

    Auditor does it, somewhat. You either enter the file bpm manually or you select a certain amount of beats and tell it how many beats the section covers.
    You won't get a grid unfortunately but at least the time ruler will show bars and beats. Combined with the auto-slicing feature you get a beat sensitive grid which is quite useful.

    Yeah it’s tricky as a lot of it is fairly organic and I’m trying to pick out sections that will act as loops, so predetermining the BPM is nigh on impossible, and probably not desirable as the loops turn out to be whatever length they are if that makes sense… maybe I’m best just sticking to doing it by ear/feel …

    In Auditor, in a case like this I select the looping part and make it a region (which makes it easily exportable) and then use the tempo calculation to determine the bpm if you need to know it.

  • @SevenSystems said:

    @Krupa said:
    Slight aside but maybe useful to seven, is there an audio editor that shows a beat/bar division grid while you’re selecting? I’ve been chopping out loops from some of my homegrown valve stuff again, and thought more than once that it’d be great to see that I’m getting the length right by seeing the beats visibly matching a grid… I hope this is understandably written…

    Yes, bar and beat grid is available, including smart snapping. See below:

    Can the 'downbeat' (ie. first beat) be manually set or is it always calculated from the beginning of the file?
    If it's possible to drop the 'downbeat' anywhere this would make chopping recorded audio a breeze, record audio, set the downbeat, adjust the BPM to match the content, select a bunch of bras, crop/trim and boom, done!

    Cheers!

  • @Samu said:

    @SevenSystems said:

    @Krupa said:
    Slight aside but maybe useful to seven, is there an audio editor that shows a beat/bar division grid while you’re selecting? I’ve been chopping out loops from some of my homegrown valve stuff again, and thought more than once that it’d be great to see that I’m getting the length right by seeing the beats visibly matching a grid… I hope this is understandably written…

    Yes, bar and beat grid is available, including smart snapping. See below:

    Can the 'downbeat' (ie. first beat) be manually set or is it always calculated from the beginning of the file?
    If it's possible to drop the 'downbeat' anywhere this would make chopping recorded audio a breeze, record audio, set the downbeat, adjust the BPM to match the content, select a bunch of bras, crop/trim and boom, done!

    Cheers!

    Yes I thought about just making the ruler draggable to set the first beat. I think I'll do that! :)

  • @SevenSystems said:

    Yes I thought about just making the ruler draggable to set the first beat. I think I'll do that! :)

    Nice!

    Then a 'slip' function should not be that far away?! :)
    (ie. 'horizontally rotate the waveform' to correct timing issues caused by plug-in delays/latency where the initial transient of the loop can sometimes be at the end of the file and needs to be 'scrolled' so it ends up at the beginning of the file).

    This can happen when recording 1-4 bar loops in AUM where a bunch of latency adding plug-ins are being used and there's no easy way to fix it in post unless you use a sampler that can trigger the file near the end of the loop.

    Sorry for adding more 'feature creep'.

    Cheers!

  • @SevenSystems said:

    @Krupa said:
    Slight aside but maybe useful to seven, is there an audio editor that shows a beat/bar division grid while you’re selecting? I’ve been chopping out loops from some of my homegrown valve stuff again, and thought more than once that it’d be great to see that I’m getting the length right by seeing the beats visibly matching a grid… I hope this is understandably written…

    Yes, bar and beat grid is available, including smart snapping. See below:

    That kinda looks like it would do the trick, though I might be thinking even simpler; just that the selection box itself is divided into x number of beats/divisions and that’s indicated by a line of some sort…

  • @Samu said:

    @SevenSystems said:

    Yes I thought about just making the ruler draggable to set the first beat. I think I'll do that! :)

    Nice!

    Then a 'slip' function should not be that far away?! :)
    (ie. 'horizontally rotate the waveform' to correct timing issues caused by plug-in delays/latency where the initial transient of the loop can sometimes be at the end of the file and needs to be 'scrolled' so it ends up at the beginning of the file).

    I know what you mean. Oh man. Can't you "just" cut the end and insert-paste it at the beginning? 😜

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