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Comments
Is this really that different from Axon2 ? I never really found 2 super useful even tho i like the sounds it makes… you can’t switch the sequence or anything so it was kinda stuck on one loop and limited to i think 16 steps.
I really like the sounds but the ui is not really adapted to my eyesight and the size of my ipad 9, too bad it could have been great, in my opinion, it wouldn't take much to make it readable.
Idk what the Ui issue is with the iPad screen , but maybe have the sequencer on one page and the synthesizer on the other ??
So it IS just 16 steps?
(Idk what the difference is between this and axon 2? )
Also when I do initialize it has two pulses - the middle and top node. They aren’t connected but they go off independently . I thought it was the middle node which you then connected the rest. Is two nodes pulsing on initialize the normal behavior of sequencer ?
That's what I do and it works well enough.
What are you guys seeing that implies a 16-step limitation? It's not even a step sequencer! (Clearly I am misunderstanding something here.)
That’s exactly what I am ”saying” (asking?). It seemed to me it was a continuously changing if you turn off the sequence reset…but I wanted to know how others have experienced the sequencer (it’s really awesome, something else…the sequencer/midi out alone is perfect for a korg volca drum for example )
I love this thing
If all the probabilities are turned off, then I think the sequence should repeat itself eventually, although it might take a while for a complex patch to repeat. If probabilities are wiggled, then you'll get something continually evolving but based on that underlying pattern.
I found Axon 2 very interesting when it was released (a couple years ago?), but ultimately I found it too fiddly and I'd forget how to do anything if I hadn't used it in awhile. So, it languished unused.
Then I saw Axon 3 was in beta and joined. Mostly to see if it had improved enough to pay for it again. I set up both and played with them at the same time. I found Axon 3 somewhat easier, a little more intuitive, the randomization options welcome, it's synth sounded better to my ears, and the interface of Axon 3 is aesthetically more pleasing to my taste.
Could I make Axon 2 more or less perform basically the same as Axon 3? I could get very close, but I find Axon 3 more of a joy to use than Axon 2 and with the randomization features added, and it being easier to remember how it works if I don't use it for awhile... it's worth the $4 to me. I'm just calling it a reasonable upgrade fee for an interesting app that I liked when it came out, and like even more now.
Is it still kinda fiddly and sometimes frustrating to use? Yes... but for me, much less so now.
Really digging this. Lots more play time to come to get deeper with it. One question - can the midi out be routed in Logic for iPad to trigger other samples etc?
Not really.
Route the central node to node 2, set its threshold to 1. It will play every second step, basically creating a 2 step sequence.
Now route the central node to node 3, set its threshold to 2. It will play every third step, combined with the previous node it gives you a 6 step sequence.
Route central to 4, threshold to 4. It will play every 5th step, and you have a 30 step sequence now.
Next node, threshold 6. Your sequence is 210 steps long!
Add node six (threshold 10), and you've got a 2310 steps sequence. Node seven (threshold 12), and you're at 30030 steps. And you haven't even introduced probability yet.
. Haven't read that right...
That’s what I thought
It wasn’t “endless” permutations but it was close
However with ratcheting and trigger likelihood it is indeed a constantly and never ending/changing patterns - no way anyone could ever use 30,000 steps. If they did I wouldn’t want to listen lol
What is the resultant effect of when you connect two nodes to different pulse sources? Sometimes I see very intricate networks with two connection routings , and I was wondering how that affects the sequence pattern ?
Order is the primary source for the routing. Wim was right when he said if there was a way of labeling or tracking the routing it would be helpful
Also I would love for them to add like a “fill” every N bar… or something so there’s a little extra option for rhythmic breakup
Anyone think the dev would do that ?
It couldn’t hurt to give each sequence node a visual number in the sequencer itself as well as on the synth and the mixer part. I do find it often confusing which sound is what.
I had no idea axon 2 existed. I read the manual and i see a few new key differences but it’s mostly for people who knew axon 2.
What are the differences in the sequencer? And what are the improvements in midi?
(They should also put a midi save for the I/o, it’s annoying to have to change it every time you change a node or whatever)
Is there a way to quickly switch Axon 3 to send MIDI instead of using the internal synth ? I can change the trigger mode of the individual neurons, but that’s pretty cumbersome if I have to repeat this for all neurons and every newly loaded preset.
Very useful, thanks!👍🏻
It's (relatively) simple. Each node counts the pulses it receives. If a node receives from more than one transmitting node, the number of pulses received is the sum of the pulses it is receiving. When the number of pulses received hits the threshold, the node fires.
It isn't helpful to think if this in terms of "sequences" unless you're intentionally trying to build predictable patterns. There are too many variables. Yes, you could work out mathematically how long a sequence will run before repeating, but there's little point. It's more useful to think of the relationship between nodes.
Let's say I get a steady four on the floor kick going, and add a steady snare that hits on the two and four. The center node transmits 16th note pulses to the kick. The kick threshold is four - basically every quarter note. I route the kick to node 2 (snare) with a threshold of 2. The kick transmits a pulse each time it fires. The snare fires every other kick.
I could make that a little more interesting by setting the threshold on the snare to three, or five, but it would still be repetitive. You could work out how repetitive with a little math, but there's little point to doing so IMO.
So let's think about what happens if you add the center node pulses to the snare. First, the pulses are coming a lot more rapidly, so the snare starts to fire more often. Whereas the kick is receiving four pulses per quarter, the snare will now be receiving five pulses per quarter (four from node 1 plus one from node 2). It still wouldn't be hard to calculate how long before it repeats.
The easiest next step would be to experiment with the threshold on the snare to reduce how often it hits. Now the math is getting more complicated.
The way to go with this thing is to throw the mathematical logic out the window and just start thinking about how nodes can influence each other in general ways. When you add a transmitter to a node, the receiver node fires more rapidly. When you increase threshold a node fires less rapidly. The math of working out how "long" a sequence is gets complicated real fast. It's just not worth thinking about.
What I do find useful is to have at least one node that is fairly predictable as an anchor, then to surround the predictable with less predictable. So it's useful to me to understand how to make those more steady beats. After that it's just creative experimentation with other nodes and sounds.
Oh, and the random buttons. I've probably gotten at least as much useful stuff from those as on my own. 😂
Just to clarify - it's not so much the "order" of nodes as the "sum" of the pulses. Routing is only ever from one node to another. But yeh, it would save a whole lot of tapping around and inadvertently adding and deleting connections if there was some kind of directional indicator.
That's an excellent idea. I'd love to see that or at least patterns like the Cem Olcay apps.
But honestly I don't expect they'll make changes like that. This is Axon 3 and it's still basically the same app concept. They've added features, but not significantly made it easier to understand or control. I don't think that's their aim. In a way that's good in that it helps force one out of traditional mindsets.
Sending the output through Fill Bud is one way to go. I was also thinking that making occasional parameter tweaks through cc automation from something like step bud would be useful. So far I've just been messing about with the app. I haven't actually tried to put it to any good use.
The Axon 3 (desktop) manual has a good blurb right near the beginning on the differences. The manual has a few walk-throughs that helped me a lot.
good ol' @gusgranite made a feature request for that and they said they'd do it in one of the next couple of releases. 😎
Oh wow ! Nice on the midi update
I doubt there will be a fills update too; maybe combine it with auto fills lol
(I read the manual too; but I wanted to know specifically what was changed with midi improvement and also what was different with a sequencer , just out of sheer curiosity, because someone said they didn’t see a huge difference so I wanted a user to tell me what they felt was different and what improvements they noticed)
But explanation above was very helpful
Thanks Wim.
Just checking ... You mentioned reading the Axon 2 manual. Did you see that I linked the Axon 3 manual? There's a section in that one that specifically discusses the differences.
I did
• An overhauled synthesizer engine with inspiration drawn from our percussion-oriented hardware modules of
yesteryear
• A refreshed, resizable user interface with two panels to accommodate all of the new goodies
• Several dozen scales and modes for matching Axon’s melodic activities to your composition—or inspiring new
compositions
• An Offset parameter for the sequencer makes it easier to create traditional drum patterns as well as exotic
new ones
• New reset options for the sequencer to keep it in sync with your song’s structure
• Numerous randomization features for generating new sounds and patterns, and dynamic variations
• Ratchets for sub-step repetitions or delay-like echoes
• A compressor on the output buss
• Improved MIDI handling, both on the way in and the way out
• A reworked mixer and output structure, with non-exclusive Solo behavior
But I just wanted user experience and what they saw. But it’s all good. It’s not a big deal. I got it and it’s great. No regrets and highly recommend it
Another way to come at this is to realise that, mathematically, the firing pattern of the node network is 100% "deterministic" i.e. completely predictable, given the routing and the thresholds for each node. There is no randomness in how the node network operates. Each preset will produce an identical firing pattern each time it is run because the network operates on fixed rules.
Deterministic processes can still be complex and produce surprising results for the listener, but the surprise is only in the ear of the listener, but if we had the time and patience, we could predict the firing pattern of any network setup with 100% accuracy.
On the other hand, there is randomness in how likely a node is to produce a sound once triggered, via the Likelihood settings under "Trigger" and "Ratchet", but this completely independent of the firing pattern of the nodes.
Thanks @yellow_eyez for the "fill" idea!
I just started using multiple Axons for that (thanks to AUv3!) and I'm blown away by how great they add up in an ensemble 😃🥂
Cheers
@rs2000 
Glad it works for you too
(Pretty rad results actually. Works really nicely)
Bloody hell @wim, I’d amazingly managed to avoid buying this but now I’ve given in. The one time I resisted an app.
@wim youre right; your explanation is very good. They should’ve asked you to write the manual. I set it up so two nodes can trigger one node and it gives some unexpected but really nice results.
Combine this with Auto Fills, set to every 8 bars, and you actually have a more structured or at least concrete path to using it in a song
It’s hard for me not to get lost in the instrument/app itself. I don’t just mean doing cool things with the sequencer, but I actually like to use the synthesis engine rather than rely on presets, and the mixer page and fx which I usually neglect, is getting attention as they are very good and add a lot to the sound
The sequencer is so fun to use, and the interface is so easy to work with . It’s quite amazing …. really think this might be one of the most original and ambitious drum machines out there, and it has so many features, totally underrated . I hope more devs like this and Battalion devs are more motivated to port to iPad or iOS so I’m glad I got it on rollout.
I can’t believe I’m the most enthralled person about this release. It’s not even my type of usual stuff. But I absolutely love this drum machine.
The only shortfall is that it’s only for 4/4 rhythms. If this could do stuff like other time sig it would be much harder to beat but as it is for 4/4 stuff, this’ll give the most interesting results . Anyway I learned to love it though it’s not everyone’s cup of tea
As I recall, I had plenty favorable opinions of this app… and gave you details that led to your purchase. So no… you aren’t the only one, but “enthralled” might be a stretch
Not sure that's right ... although the central node fires out 16 pulses per cycle, we're not constrained to make any other node conform to a 4 or 16 beat cycle. They can fire every 3 beats for example. It's all about the thresholds for each node. These can be multiples of 3 quite easily. Or 5 etc ...
@skiphunt yes you’re right, what I said was a stretch , in both respects
[not the only one; well maybe enthralled but right about the first ]
Actually I wish there was something that went into that in detail . You’re right after all.