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Comments
Thanks very much. You're too kind. It really is looking to be a good SOTMC. Everything so far is well made and the production quality is high. 30 years ago we might have all have been rich and famous
The mix is pretty great so I’m not sure I’m qualified to give you advice!
There are a couple of places where you can hear that there’s a short drum section being looped. A little more variation, for example take out the odd bass drum hit, would already make a difference. The bass drum and open hi hat make the drums sound a bit looped (for example from the 2:00 mark onwards in the verse). Alternatively just add a touch more reverb on the higher frequencies to send it further back in the mix and turn the snares down a tad.
That would probably be enough
if you wanted to go an extra step, Logic/Garageband drummer are great for adding realistic sounding hi-hats/shakers to a track. Let the drummer play for the whole track and set it to follow, say, the bass guitar, adjust the options to taste and then strip out everything except for the hats and shakers (convert drummer regions to midi to do this). Then send the snare, hats/shakers to a live drum room reverb for just a little bit of a live room sound. What I tend to do is set the reverb so I think it's just enough then turn it down a bit more :-)
I'll listen to anyone with ears and an opinion. That's interesting about the looped drums. I actually programmed every hit myself, note by note. But I have always been a lazy drum programmer. What you said about variation is something that has plagued me for decades. I'm usually to hyper focused on the vocal and guitars. I'm too easily satisfied with drums.
I'm done with this tune but I appreciate what you said. A lot of it rings true and I can see (hear) what you mean about a live drums room. Another issue I have is making things sound like they belong together. Vocals in particular (makes sense I guess) are a real battle to get right. My ears are nowhere near as good as they were and they were never that great. I really appreciate the alternate point of view. Thanks.
Thanks :-) I have a love hate relationship with attention. I really don't like attention but at the same time sometimes wish more people would listen to my music! I wish I wasn't so good at avoiding attention sometimes
I know what you mean. I end up usually going in the opposite direction (as you may have noticed!) and make sure my drums are as fake as possible. Nobody cares when drum machines don't sound like real drummers :-)
You've got nothing to worry about. The song is really good as it is. The vocals are perfect, both the performance and the mix. There's nothing wrong with your ears if this song is anything to go by!
I'm definitely cool with you getting NiN vibes. I've been into them since Pretty Hate Machine! I bought pretty much anything produced by Flood back then, and was rarely (probably never) disappointed.
With regards to the metallic pad, the feedback-ey type sound, I mixed that so I thought it was too loud then turned it up a bit more. I wanted it to swamp the mix at the end and for it to sound a little bit uncomfortable.
There's actually quite a lot of saturation fx on it already. Perhaps I was a bit too polite with it :-)
I'll make the next industrial-ey track grittier and nastier sounding if I can :-)
Wow, such cool stuff this month, I'm almost embarrassed to publish something
@klownshed I'm glad I followed you on Soundcloud because your stuff is so cool, creepy and powerful at the same time, beautiful mix and production. If something, maybe a bit too much resonance on some instruments near the end of the song.
@jo92346 I'm always impressed at the expressiveness of your strings and your instruments in general, your tracks always tell a story.
@Ailerom wow, amazing track. On the contrary I love your drums (and the song as whole too :-) )
Anyway, not sure about this one. Started with one idea and then at some point I completely changed everything, so that's absolutely not what was in my mind in the first place but I still liked it. I'm still unable to create something which I really like with SWAM Cello but I suppose it will happen at some point.
Very nice. I like the way the track is slowly but constantly evolving, it stays interesting all the way through. The second half is pretty different from the first but it works very well. I really liked the cello part for what it's worth.
Thanks! And I apparently completely missed half of the first page, lol.
@richardyot (or @JanKun
) I love the "drop" at around 2.45 and the new drums that come in. And also the roaring bass sound which comes in the verse right after that.
@DavidEnglish I really liked the trumpet around half of the track, very sweet. I read you are using all SWAM instruments right? How do you use your keyboards to add expressiveness? I'm struggling to find the best way to work with SWAM Cello.
Nice gentle ambient piece with good sounds and production. I like it when the cello comes in, but then it's gone again... In terms of you struggling to find the best way to work with SWAM, what did you mean? I'd have liked to hear a motif from the cello that comes back again perhaps? Maybe a shorter part that evolves? Production wise the cello sounds pretty good, from a personal taste perspective I tend to like a solo cello to be more aggressive in tone but that probably wouldn't suit your song :-)
I'm obviously not a cellist but like to use them a lot. It's such a lovely sound. I tend to use them as if they were any other sound but with the added dimension of an organic, classical tone. I use sample libraries for cello.
Apocalyptica (CineSamples/Musio) is great for aggressive cello. Abbey Road Iconic Strings is great for a more "Eleanor Rigby" sound. I've recently got Friktion for Reason and will be exploring that more in the future (got it for free with Reason vouchers!).
This month is shaping up to be one of the better SOTMCs I think. I'm enjoying that there's more discourse this month too...
Your tunes are always very consistent. They've always got really nice sound design and some lovely melodies. I can't really think of any new adjectives over what I say every month other than to say that I'm impressed with the consistency.
I'd be interested to hear about your improvisation technique though. Do you do much editing after you improvise? Do you make an instrumental backing over which you track the improvised melodies?
It's just that I don't really like the final output, but maybe it's just a matter of personal taste. Part of my problems are probably due to the fact that I don't have an "easy" way to modulate the basic expressiveness parameters and often I'm doing it afterwards, so the result is a bit unpredictable. Probably I just need to practice more how to play this particular instrument.
Oh got it. The samples I use have far less modulation, but what there is is very necessary. I tend to play the part in on the keyboard then draw in the modulation afterwards (expression and dynamics). I imagine myself bowing the notes and draw in modulation that follows that motion. But I'm a complete luddite when it comes to orchestral instruments.
I do sometimes use the mod wheel or faders on my controller, but I quite like going in afterwards and drawing in the expression.
Note to self : I need to start exploring Friktion, that seems to be more like SWAM. I keep forgetting I have Reason instruments in the Reason Rack plugin. Out of sight...
@unlink - Embracing the (un)expected: I'm not sure what the intent is of this tune. When I make music I am really locked in a pretty standard song structure mode that I have to push myself to break away from. This tune is a great soundscape. I'm not sure if you've ever heard John Carpenter but this gave me that sort of experience. I'm a big fan of his soundtrack work. This tune is amazing IMO. Such perfectly chosen instruments to go together, fantastic and engaging changes that are as unexpected as they are wonderful to hear. The background sound effects used (like from the 4.10 point) add an emotive quality to the track that is almost relaxing but engaging at the same time. I really love it. I love that slightly dissonant metallic pad around 3.40. I don't know how people select elements that go together so well but you've done that here. And I think it's more difficult with synthetic sounds because they are so varied that it is easy to put sounds together that are not suited. I struggle to make the 4 elements of bass, guitar, drums and vocals sound like they are meant to be together, like an actual band recorded it. Great job.
Also wanted to add. The high point for me was right around 3.10 where (I think) you wound back the mix of the delay and the piano/vibes/ep like sound became dry. That was beautiful.
The least pleasing sound was the cello and although the initial impact was really nice, the more it went on the more synthetic I thought it sound so I was happy to hear it go. Partly because of the sound but probably mostly because I loved the changes so much.
double post
THank you. I know what you mean about the end of the song. It was deliberate, I wanted that sound to swamp the mix and sound a bit uncomfortable. I may have overdone it a bit maybe...
that is good. My kind of music. Liked the change of mood, but I'm not really a fan of swam cello.
I know that feeling.
Thank you very much for this thorough review! The intent is: there is no intent
Most of my tracks are meant to let the mind float and tell a story (or at least try to). Also I love dissonant sounds and I'm glad someone noticed 
Your track is perfectly arranged and mixed, I don't think I would be able to blend them together so well, so even making something "standard", as you say, it's not easy at all.
struggled to make a "standard" (as you say) song with bass, guitar and drums so don't think this is hard and and I think your track is perfectly arranged and mixed
Yes, that's exactly my issue with the cello part. Sounds ok but you can feel it's synthetic. Absurdly enough it was easier for me to blend other weird and unusual synthetic sounds than a "normal" cello sound. But I saw some examples of perfectly played SWAM Cello, which sounded beautiful, so I think my performance has room for improvements.
Loved the vibe Richard and especially dug the harmonies in the "fly away" part. The dark vibe reflects the lyrical content nicely. The non-chorus vocal parts (hope that makes sense) seemed a little low in the mix. But otherwise I really dig this one.
Dug the punchy, crisp synth and percussion sounds. Nice clarity in the mix. I also liked the dark vibe. Really cool rhythms. There's always something new coming around the corner with this one to keep interest. LOve the quirky vocals.
Beautiful sounds. The piece is haunting and takes you to a mystical place. I appreciated the woodwind melodies.
I don't post here often but I do appreciate this thread.
This piece began as a weird beat in Koala. The cello parts are from Thumbjam
This is the second tune I've released with vocals. Props to @richardyot for this thread (and his book) for motivating me to try vocals and for helping to nudge me out of a bit of a dry spell.
Great cinematic track. It is a good thing that you let the music take you somewhere you didn't intend in the first place.
I like all the sounds except SWAM cello. When proper parameter control your can make it this thing shuttle very expressive.
Expression is one of the most important parameter, but you also need to modulate vibrato and vibrato speed, bow pressure and bow position and also harmonics to bring realism . The best approach is to use a Midi controller to play with all parameters in real time. One that works very well with SWAM apps (at least for me) is the expressive Touché, definitely recommend it. The other approach is a painstaking CC automation for each parameter...
I love the vocal, and their relatively soft delivery is a nice complement to the edgy vibe of the music. I also like the instrumental embellishments from the Thumbjam cello.
The delay on the vocals is tastefully done and overall the track is very intriguing and beguiling. It benefits form repeated listening.
Ahh yes, the Touche, one of gadgets that is permanently in my Amazon cart
I'll go for it, one day..
Do you use the Touche to add expression while playing or afterwards (or both) ?
The fun part (and magic of it) is to play with all assigned parameters with one hand while playing notes with the other and record everything at once. Haven't tried to record parameters afterwards but I am sure it possible. For all strings, I usually assign expression and bow pressure to pressure, vibrato depth and vibrato speed up on the Y, and harmonic right on the X. You can push in diagonal while pressing, and if you chose the right amount of stiffness and reactivity it can be very expressive and easy to use after a bit of practice.
Great, thanks!
This is quite beautiful David. Hitting a perfect tone here on a quiet Sunday evening. The sampled instruments sound good I appreciate the simplicity, but there's also harmonic complexity, and the piece takes you to a number of different places, so there's complexity too. Appreciate hearing the details about your process.