Is Cubasis better than Logic, and why?

HolyMoses

@klownshed said:

@yaknepper said:
Both DAW's are good, but Cubasis has a MUCH nicer GUI.

I don’t like it at all :-)

Cubasis, poor devils Logic Pro!

rapidfire

@Drrabbitfoot said:
I hear a lot more negative about Logic than I do about Cubasis. I figure the Logic bashing is more to its pricing model and the fact that it’s Apple, which I don’t have an issue with either, but with Cubasis being on sale, I wanted to see what you all thought.

Logic can’t use IAA and many of us still use them, such as Nave, SampleTank, iwavestation to mention a few.
The new latest Cubasis updates also make editing much quicker and easier 👍

HolyMoses

@rapidfire said:

@Drrabbitfoot said:
I hear a lot more negative about Logic than I do about Cubasis. I figure the Logic bashing is more to its pricing model and the fact that it’s Apple, which I don’t have an issue with either, but with Cubasis being on sale, I wanted to see what you all thought.

Logic can’t use IAA and many of us still use them, such as Nave, SampleTank, iwavestation to mention a few.
The new latest Cubasis updates also make editing much quicker and easier 👍

IAA into Logic Pro for iPad can be made with some workarounds, if we now need “ancient” music apps…

Drrabbitfoot

IAA into Logic Pro for iPad can be made with some workarounds, if we now need “ancient” music apps…

I have to say I love Borderlands, the drummer apps are mostly IAA, and I know it’s the same guy but Samplr over Logics take all day long

HolyMoses

@Drrabbitfoot said:

IAA into Logic Pro for iPad can be made with some workarounds, if we now need “ancient” music apps…

I have to say I love Borderlands, the drummer apps are mostly IAA, and I know it’s the same guy but Samplr over Logics take all day long

But nothing stops you from using your "old" IAA apps, soundswise...

Havn't we for decades cut & copy snippets och larger blocks of sounds that we could use everywhere?

We have to use our imagination!

kirmesteggno

@wim said:

@kirmesteggno said:

@wim said:

@kirmesteggno said:
How many tracks/donuts can fit on a a single page? I've seen people replacing the donuts with rectangles, are squares also possible?

It’s free to try for 7 days. Be sure to have plenty of time in that 7 days though. There’s a lot to explore.

fwiw, I don’t see Loopy Pro as a replacement for any DAW such as Cubasis or Logic Pro. But as a creative workspace it’s fantastic. I rarely care to open up a DAW any more except for final arrangement, mixing, and mastering, though. It feels too creatively hindering to me now.

Yeah, sequencing, sound processing and experimentation is much more fun with an iPad. Loopy would be an alternative for Abletons session view clip matrix where I currently import the audio into that I've recorded in AUM. There I try out different ideas and record it into the arrangement view. Currently using the iPad as a clip launcher for Ableton using the Pencil in continuity, but it feels like I'm back in school doing my homework lol.

Abletons session view (clip matrix) is nice with a good template and a mapped controller like the old APC 40 (MKII) that has encoders that automap to the active rack device, unfortunately I've got rid of the first version years ago and the MKII price just skyrocketed on the used market after Akai ruined the series with their weird APC64.

I hope that I can kind of consolidate AUM and Ableton session view workflow with Loopy and import a semi finished track into Abletons arrangement view for editing. This would be the goal of the 7 day experiment.

Right now i'm also giving Drambo standalone another try after i had the glorious idea that I could just use layer mixer racks instead of sends and "solo" each layer using multiple exports to extract enough layers from the project. This would shrink the 24 or 32 tracks I use in AUM to the half.

I still keep Logic 4 iPad installed just in case, I may use it for mastering and resubscribe once I have a bunch of mixes ready to get mastered.

It seems like Logic's clip launcher would be ideal for this. Not working out?

btw, Zenbeats is fairly close to Live in terms of having both clip launcher and timeline. It's also free to check out, in a rather limited sense - probably enough to get a feel for the workflow at least.

Logic is a bit slow compared to other solutions and also feels a bit like cannons on sparrows for what I'm currently doing and the destructive workflow and exporting to Ableton. For more organic music it's really great, but right now I'm mostly synth based and have all the tools I really need. I still have it installed for stem mastering, that's how I'll use it going forward.

I think where it would come out on top is for a full end to end workflow starting in L4iP and also finishing there on a monitor. But the ecosystem isn't there yet imo, the extended desktop support requires setup changes I'm not interested in currently.

Zenbeats sounds interesting, but Roland is too weird and restrictive. Their TR-8s/6s drum machines don't work with iOS/iPadOS for example, and I believe that Zenbeats could be the first thing they remove the devs from if they need them for other projects. There is no active user scene around it it seems which is bad.

NoiseHorse

So has anybody noticed any sound differences when recording a guitar or vocal into LP4I versus CB3?
With no effects at all, my guitars sound a little louder and wider on LP4I than CB3 to me, as if LP4I has a limiter and a widening thing built in somewhere. ???

mjm1138

@NoiseHorse said:
So has anybody noticed any sound differences when recording a guitar or vocal into LP4I versus CB3?
With no effects at all, my guitars sound a little louder and wider on LP4I than CB3 to me, as if LP4I has a limiter and a widening thing built in somewhere. ???

Maybe CB is switching your iPad to “high quality mode” and Logic is switching it off?

Edit: CB3 calls it “measurement mode”

Simon

Also worth remembering is Cubasis works on older iPads, unlike Logic. Not everyone can afford the latest and greatest.

The idea that one is "better" than the other doesn't really make sense to me. Everyone's need are different. They are both great apps.

yellow_eyez

@Simon said:
Also worth remembering is Cubasis works on older iPads, unlike Logic. Not everyone can afford the latest and greatest.

The idea that one is "better" than the other doesn't really make sense to me. Everyone's need are different. They are both great apps.

+1 (and iPhone)

sigma79

Can you midi map to au instruments in Cubasis.

And actually get use out of multicore.

For orchestras ?

MrSmileZ

I have both, Logic Pro is heavier than Cubasis so I can get more tracks and plugs on cubasis. I find the UI less fiddly on Cubasis, Logic is very fiddly still. Other than them two items I’m more focused to Logic Pro

Telstar5

@MrSmileZ said:
I have both, Logic Pro is heavier than Cubasis so I can get more tracks and plugs on cubasis. I find the UI less fiddly on Cubasis, Logic is very fiddly still. Other than them two items I’m more focused to Logic Pro

“Fiddly “ meaning? Tends to crash more ?

jwmmakerofmusic

@Telstar5 said:

@MrSmileZ said:
I have both, Logic Pro is heavier than Cubasis so I can get more tracks and plugs on cubasis. I find the UI less fiddly on Cubasis, Logic is very fiddly still. Other than them two items I’m more focused to Logic Pro

“Fiddly “ meaning? Tends to crash more ?

I think "fiddly" means "tedious" in this case mate.

Telstar5

👍Must be a British thing, lol..Thanks

Telstar5

FYI: GarageBand works with IAA which you can then export into Logic Pro which of course does not

Telstar5

Dendy…..May 2023

Ok, decided to do test to know if Logic really uses multicore CPU performance.

What i did on my iPad AIR M1:

opened new project
set buffer size to "512 samples" )
added track with Model D and short 1 bar loop with 16th notes on every second 16th note
hit play
now i duplicated that track, diplicated also clip
continuted until Logic stopped playbach with warning message about CPU overload (unfortunatelly there is no CPU meter in logic, at least i didn't find one, so this was only way how to figure i maxed out CPU load)
that was around 25 instance
then i started delete instances until i get to the point where playback was smooth and not even working with uni (fast resizing of mixer window, scrolling in mixer left-right quickly) didn't caused CPU overload waring
Ended and 19 instances as treshold where it constantly plays no mater what i am doing in UI. With higher count (between 19 and 25 instances) as soon as i started to move through UI, resize windows, switch windows - it alwats ended with CPU overload warning.

Then tried something like that in CUBASIS

ended at same number - around 19 instances is treshold where it keeps playing stead (buffer 10ms which is equiwalent to logic's "512 samples" setting). Cubasis CPU meter jumps around 80-90%.. you can add more and it still plays but stutters starts apparing. Here is Cubasis little bit better cause it still plays it just starts stutter - Logic just stops playback and encourages you to enable automatic freezing OR freeze some tracks manually.
Just as refence - other hosts with no multicore support (AUM, NS2) runs around 9 instances steady (on same buffer size like C3/LPX).

TLDR;
Logic Pro definitely utilises multicore CPU. CPU load of host itself is comparable to Cubasis (no significant deviation). Cubasis holds on a bit better when CPU is already on edge and stuttering appears - you can temporarily work in this are, which is not the case on Logic, cause it just stops on first significant stutter.

richardyot

@Telstar5 said:
TLDR;
Logic Pro definitely utilises multicore CPU. CPU load of host itself is comparable to Cubasis (no significant deviation). Cubasis holds on a bit better when CPU is already on edge and stuttering appears - you can temporarily work in this are, which is not the case on Logic, cause it just stops on first significant stutter.

In Cubasis you can set a higher buffer (Logic only goes up to 512 samples) so Cubasis should be able to run more instances with the buffer set to 1024. That's certainly the case in my testing.

If Apple would allow Logic to use higher buffer sizes that would be pretty useful for running heavier projects.

DMfan

@Telstar5 said:
Dendy…..May 2023

Ok, decided to do test to know if Logic really uses multicore CPU performance.

What i did on my iPad AIR M1:

opened new project
set buffer size to "512 samples" )
added track with Model D and short 1 bar loop with 16th notes on every second 16th note
hit play
now i duplicated that track, diplicated also clip
continuted until Logic stopped playbach with warning message about CPU overload (unfortunatelly there is no CPU meter in logic, at least i didn't find one, so this was only way how to figure i maxed out CPU load)
that was around 25 instance
then i started delete instances until i get to the point where playback was smooth and not even working with uni (fast resizing of mixer window, scrolling in mixer left-right quickly) didn't caused CPU overload waring
Ended and 19 instances as treshold where it constantly plays no mater what i am doing in UI. With higher count (between 19 and 25 instances) as soon as i started to move through UI, resize windows, switch windows - it alwats ended with CPU overload warning.

Then tried something like that in CUBASIS

ended at same number - around 19 instances is treshold where it keeps playing stead (buffer 10ms which is equiwalent to logic's "512 samples" setting). Cubasis CPU meter jumps around 80-90%.. you can add more and it still plays but stutters starts apparing. Here is Cubasis little bit better cause it still plays it just starts stutter - Logic just stops playback and encourages you to enable automatic freezing OR freeze some tracks manually.
Just as refence - other hosts with no multicore support (AUM, NS2) runs around 9 instances steady (on same buffer size like C3/LPX).

TLDR;
Logic Pro definitely utilises multicore CPU. CPU load of host itself is comparable to Cubasis (no significant deviation). Cubasis holds on a bit better when CPU is already on edge and stuttering appears - you can temporarily work in this are, which is not the case on Logic, cause it just stops on first significant stutter.

Very interesting! Wonder what these figures would say if run on the latest Air with an M2?

Anyone got one and care to test?

The biggest jump on multicore performance ought to be between the A and M-series....

/DMfan

Luxthor

I feel like a hostage using LP4i, in contrast to the Cubasis being free like a bird. That’s that. 🤦‍♂️

Telstar5

@richardyot :Thanks

Telstar5

About buffer sizes
https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/articles/which-buffer-size-setting-should-i-use-in-my-daw/

yellow_eyez

@Luxthor said:
I feel like a hostage using LP4i, in contrast to the Cubasis being free like a bird. That’s that. 🤦‍♂️

+1

MrSmileZ

@jwmmakerofmusic said:

@Telstar5 said:

@MrSmileZ said:
I have both, Logic Pro is heavier than Cubasis so I can get more tracks and plugs on cubasis. I find the UI less fiddly on Cubasis, Logic is very fiddly still. Other than them two items I’m more focused to Logic Pro

“Fiddly “ meaning? Tends to crash more ?

I think "fiddly" means "tedious" in this case mate.

Exactly

MrSmileZ

@Telstar5 said:
Dendy…..May 2023

Ok, decided to do test to know if Logic really uses multicore CPU performance.

What i did on my iPad AIR M1:

opened new project
set buffer size to "512 samples" )
added track with Model D and short 1 bar loop with 16th notes on every second 16th note
hit play
now i duplicated that track, diplicated also clip
continuted until Logic stopped playbach with warning message about CPU overload (unfortunatelly there is no CPU meter in logic, at least i didn't find one, so this was only way how to figure i maxed out CPU load)
that was around 25 instance
then i started delete instances until i get to the point where playback was smooth and not even working with uni (fast resizing of mixer window, scrolling in mixer left-right quickly) didn't caused CPU overload waring
Ended and 19 instances as treshold where it constantly plays no mater what i am doing in UI. With higher count (between 19 and 25 instances) as soon as i started to move through UI, resize windows, switch windows - it alwats ended with CPU overload warning.

Then tried something like that in CUBASIS

ended at same number - around 19 instances is treshold where it keeps playing stead (buffer 10ms which is equiwalent to logic's "512 samples" setting). Cubasis CPU meter jumps around 80-90%.. you can add more and it still plays but stutters starts apparing. Here is Cubasis little bit better cause it still plays it just starts stutter - Logic just stops playback and encourages you to enable automatic freezing OR freeze some tracks manually.
Just as refence - other hosts with no multicore support (AUM, NS2) runs around 9 instances steady (on same buffer size like C3/LPX).

TLDR;
Logic Pro definitely utilises multicore CPU. CPU load of host itself is comparable to Cubasis (no significant deviation). Cubasis holds on a bit better when CPU is already on edge and stuttering appears - you can temporarily work in this are, which is not the case on Logic, cause it just stops on first significant stutter.

You have now got me thinking maybe it’s the plug ins I’m gravitating to? That’s something to consider. I do tend to use a few of the heavier plugs I believe.

FriedTapeworm

Noobie Question for anyone out there…how good is Logic Pro’s plug-in delay compensation? I very much prefer the workflow of Cubasis, and have stayed there because it is comfortable. But now that I’m using fabfilter for mixing my more recent projects, I’m running into a lot of timing issues from the latency, specifically on vocals where I’m using quite a bit of processing.

If I have a vocal chain in Logic with 2 FF compressors, a de-esser, pro-Q3, maybe some saturation and a touch of reverb; all of them using over sampling. Will the track stay in time in Logic Pro?

richardyot

@FriedTapeworm said:
Noobie Question for anyone out there…how good is Logic Pro’s plug-in delay compensation? I very much prefer the workflow of Cubasis, and have stayed there because it is comfortable. But now that I’m using fabfilter for mixing my more recent projects, I’m running into a lot of timing issues from the latency, specifically on vocals where I’m using quite a bit of processing.

If I have a vocal chain in Logic with 2 FF compressors, a de-esser, pro-Q3, maybe some saturation and a touch of reverb; all of them using over sampling. Will the track stay in time in Logic Pro?

PDC works flawlessly in Logic. I've never had anything go out of time because of plugin latency.

HolyMoses

@richardyot said:

@FriedTapeworm said:
Noobie Question for anyone out there…how good is Logic Pro’s plug-in delay compensation? I very much prefer the workflow of Cubasis, and have stayed there because it is comfortable. But now that I’m using fabfilter for mixing my more recent projects, I’m running into a lot of timing issues from the latency, specifically on vocals where I’m using quite a bit of processing.

If I have a vocal chain in Logic with 2 FF compressors, a de-esser, pro-Q3, maybe some saturation and a touch of reverb; all of them using over sampling. Will the track stay in time in Logic Pro?

PDC works flawlessly in Logic. I've never had anything go out of time because of plugin latency.

Logic Pro for iPad is da king!
Plugin delay compensation works great as you mention...

FriedTapeworm

@richardyot said:

@FriedTapeworm said:
Noobie Question for anyone out there…how good is Logic Pro’s plug-in delay compensation? I very much prefer the workflow of Cubasis, and have stayed there because it is comfortable. But now that I’m using fabfilter for mixing my more recent projects, I’m running into a lot of timing issues from the latency, specifically on vocals where I’m using quite a bit of processing.

If I have a vocal chain in Logic with 2 FF compressors, a de-esser, pro-Q3, maybe some saturation and a touch of reverb; all of them using over sampling. Will the track stay in time in Logic Pro?

PDC works flawlessly in Logic. I've never had anything go out of time because of plugin latency.

Thanks.