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Fight fire with fire. I’m currently working with Claude to develop crawlers for all of the different music forums on the web to screen, dox, and S.W.A.T. members who use AI for their creations.
I HOPE YOU MOTHER F*CKERS LIKE PIZZA!!!😈😈😈
Just kidding. I use Logic’s AI assistant.
Yeah man, I don’t really get the backlash either, and I say that as someone who likes tinkering, patching, and deep control.
Why does it have to be either/or?
Nothing about AI tools stops me from making music the way I enjoy making it. If I want to spend an hour nudging envelopes, mapping controllers, or building a fragile live setup in Loopy Pro, I still can. If I want to mess with an AI generator for 10 minutes to spark an idea, I can do that too. These things don’t cancel each other out.
To me, and hey I'm sure some of you will disagree - that's fine - a lot of the fear sounds less about process and more about an older assumption that music’s value comes from scarcity and monetization. If music is primarily a product you sell, then of course tools that make it faster or more accessible feel threatening. But if music is also play, exploration, expression, or communication, then AI is just another tool — sometimes shallow, sometimes surprisingly useful, often ignorable.
Like the other poster said, I guess I'm old enough to have been through this cycle before (Drum machines, Samplers, DAWs, and Looping, etc. - and hey even Quantization and Presets). Accusations that that is somehow 'cheating' or whatever (I'm paraphrasing the outrage here).
And as far as I can see with my old eyes, every time, there’s anxiety about “the craft being lost,” and every time, people who care about craft… keep caring about craft.
Also, the experience of making music matters. No AI output replaces the satisfaction of building something live, reacting to mistakes, or discovering a sound by accident. But not every musical moment has to be that experience. Sometimes I want friction. Sometimes I want flow. Sometimes I want to listen, not build.
If AI music feels boring or meaningless to someone — cool. Don’t use it. But treating it as a moral or artistic threat feels like projecting one particular relationship with music onto everyone else.
For me, tinkering isn’t endangered. It’s a choice. And honestly, the people who love the process aren’t going to stop loving it just because another option exists.
/peace among the people
1+
yeah. but maybe we sound like our grandparents already.
electric guitars. thats not music😄
omg
I have a feeling that there will be a clear demarcation between those who do and those who don’t. This will likely apply to the creative community as well as the listenership (I’ve had enough of using the term consumer).
@tubespace said:
I think where AI becomes most divisive, is between amateur/hobbyist and professional use.
I don’t currently use any AI tools (not even Logic’s mastering) in my music, but I’m a big fan of a random button for sparking off new ideas, so I’m not going to rule it out. I do play gigs and sell a few albums on the old Bandcamp, but I’d never describe myself as a pro musician. Pro-Gear Acquisition Syndromer, maybe.
But if I was, and relied on it as my main income - creating soundtracks for example - then I’d be worried.
As a designer, developer and trained illustrator, AI represents the Devil himself. It has completely obliterated whole areas of income source for me, and people in my profession. Fortunately I’m nearing the end of my career, but I’d be looking for a totally different one if I was younger. Probably carpentry.
So instead I take a dirty pleasure in creating completely weird, obscure artwork using AI generators for my album covers, having more time for my hobby as my paid work hours evaporate.
So yeah, a divisive topic, even in my own head.
Personally I find AI fascinating. Yes there are serious medium to long term risks and the biggest immediate issue is the environmental impact. Apparently generating a single image uses the same amount of energy as it does to charge your smartphone.
Current LLMs are light years away from AGI though, despite appearances to the contrary. Many analysts think they're a dead end in terms of ultimately providing a path to AGI.
AI in general is a fantastic tool and one that I'm using on a daily basis now, although not for music yet. I'd have no interest in using AI to write a song 'for' me but can see no problem with using something AI generated as a starting point or even as a virtual collaborator. There are no rules - the end product is so that really counts.
Ambient isn't my thing but if something along these lines could come up with a better drum part or bass line, I can't really see what the problem is.
Thinking about Blade Runner. Maybe Artificial Intelligence creations should have a limited lifespan too..
Me too @charalew
I use AI daily just not for making music yet. The idea of using as an inspiration source seems fun, but definitely not to write a whole song, where’s the fun in that? I use AI daily to explain concepts I use at work and also as a replacement to owners manuals! AI can explain how to operate my hardware synths much better than the manuals that come with the gear 😂
For me, AI is like hitting the random button on a synth or like make generative music. You let the machine speak then use its voice to make music from it. I agree with @oldsynthguy though. I have been doing graphic design for many years, freelance and at work and the other day I was working on a logo for a friend so I decided to use AI as a sketch pad. It blew me away!
AI created almost exactly the image I had in my head after a few prompts. I felt like an art director. I then asked AI to apply the logo to a t-shirt, baseball cap, polo shirt, business card, dog sweater, and van. The speed of this was incredible. It could not export the logo design into a proper vector, but it came close and sent me the vector code. As far as design, AI is EXTREMELY DISRUPTIVE 🙏
Nice words
I presume I use some AI tools in my DAWs, if they really want to call them that. Im not sure the tools that I use are that 'intelligent' but they sure help me with some idea generation at times.
As a hobbyist and a guy in my late fifties, I dont believe my hobby is going to be affected overtly in a negative manner at least in the short term. If it does then I will just go fishing more!
As for how it affects music in general, I have to admit im not really bothered - ive had my informative years and I have access to more than enough music to last the remainder of what ever God out there wants to bestow on me.
I can empathise with others that are affected by AI and its an obvious society effector, just as the internet and many other things are. I wish all the best to the world in general, Im just not prepared to waste whatever time I do have left overtly worrying about this sort of thing.
I will admit to my poor health making some parts of music making more difficult of late, so Im not ruling out using various AI tools, even AI backing singers for my music....after all its just a hobby for me.
I do however feel apprehension when I read the word Google lol
Word.
And if I may, I think another factor is that whenever there’s a flattening of expertise, people who’ve spent years building that expertise can feel short-changed. That emotional reaction is something I get.
If AI triggers a strong visceral response, it might be worth pausing and reflecting on what part of our sense of value or identity feels challenged; especially if that value has historically been tied to effort, rarity, or exclusivity, rather than the experience of making the music itself.
For me, I definitely feel that pull sometimes. There's this idea that value comes from rarity: “Who else is doing this?” And if the answer is “not many,” then it must somehow be more valuable. I catch myself in that thinking. Separating from it isn’t easy. I think capitalism has trained a lot of us to place value in some pretty unhelpful places.
Fully agree, and yeah man, this tension has always been there in the arts. I remember in the 70s and 80s mocking bands for “selling out" (while quietly wishing we had a record contract ourselves 😄). The line between art and commerce has never been stable. Andy Warhol poked right at that discomfort and showed us all how blurry it really is (at least that's how I interpretted it).
For sure === and we’ve been drawing that line over and over again throughout history. “Is this a business or is it art?” (very crudely put on my part) is a question I’ve heard my entire life and was asked by everyone and their dog long before that. The tools change, but the debate feels strangely familiar.
I'm still thinking about it a lot. I am interested in AI helping me use the tools more effectively (like automatically removing unwanted harmonics or balancing the eq to fit more devices, as long as it stays out of my creation portion, if that makes any sense. I'm in it for the experience, not so much the fame or money haha (like we get any of those lately.)
Yes, absolutely. AI as a tool for fixing things: human health, a mix or working out a tax return. ChatGPT wrote for me a legal agreement between me and my ex, legal language et al.
I’d leave creative bits for the humans, the fun bits.
I’ve read this similar setiment many times on this and another creative forum. I agree with it but at the same time I imagine myself as a professional mix or mastering engineer reading these comments, and can’t help but to think i would have been gloriously banned by now. Quite a paradox.
AI integration brings more value back to live performers. Tools that can aid someone who is only good at playing guitar in setting up a full session is great. If an artist likes creative effects but can’t play anything, AI generated stems could be used. There’s all sorts of areas AI can fill gaps creatively. If it gets you making your own music faster then there’s not much harm.
They do. They're replaced by better models.
When it comes to using AI as a tool it is already beyond agree or disagree point. One could argue that already now we’re at the ‘anything goes’ point, or at least until there is some international oversight and rules.
Either way AI mastering is a reality, whether you like it or not but rest assured that it won’t be me who puts mastering engineers out of business, I just use Audio Mastering app or Trinity, but I’m a semi pro and too old to care TBH.
The world will go in the direction of AI doing that stuff because convenience and affordability is just too tempting.
I think social commentary, arts etc at least in terms of the thinking part will be ok for a while. Some podcaster when asked: will podcasters lose their jobs due to AI takeover, answered: ‘I don’t want to hear opinions of a robot’ and I personally agree.
I’ve watched a few fake political opinion YT videos recently and they never fail to fool me at first, than some repetitive and unnatural arm movements give it away. Than I’m like: should I stop or keep watching? This is kinda interesting! And I keep watching.
Which makes me think that even we don’t really know how AI will shape our lives and behaviour.
Societies are changing at such a pace that I don’t think anyone can predict what the world will be like in 25 years.
Random thought on music AI: I wish someone would use the model to act as a listener with a strong music theory background to give feedback on your compositions.
Can you imagine where ai will be in ten years? 20?
Interesting. As Ai is just basically pattern recognition at this time, I would think its quite feesable to train one to spot decent use of music theory and peoples reactions to what was used. Say, youve used a key that mostly leads to a certain emotion, that could be commented on....the Ai knows nothing about that emotion....has and will never feel it, but can be taught to recognise that the music made is likely to lead to that emotion just by linking c3rtain patterns to certain words. Once a decent level of complexity is found, it could seem to work.
Personally though, I really think that Ai could be really useful to guide my music making in many ways, helping me learn. The problem I see with Ai is that like many tools, they may stop me from learning the building blocks of musical knowledge first and hence making the learning process actually more difficult when it comes to making original musical pieces.
My thoughts are drifting though...I know one thing, my compositions are so basic, the Ai may just think ive just left school and give me a lolly lol
Looking at the costs and amount of energy the current iteration is taking, and eye-watering amounts of money required to keep updating hardware, data centres etc. - it’ll be limited to a very few essential services, is my guess.
Hey, just thought, how about a zappa trained Ai that belittles you for not learning your chops properly and makes you try to play 'the Black Page' or go home rejected!
In a rational world that would probably be what happened. So that definitely won't be the outcome
Yes - and they seem to be doing fine so far with their chain of non-existent financing!
😂😂😂😂
I’ve been leaning on LLMs for theory questions lately, mostly because they don’t get burnt out by the 'why' and 'how' like a human mentor might. What I’m really dreaming of is a specialized AI music analyst (think Reference but for deep harmonic and structural theory rather than just mix matching).
While jazz and classical are documented to death, the genres I’m actually into have almost zero formal analytical resources. I’m currently grinding through songbooks and DIY analysis, but it’s a slow crawl without a mentor. I need a tool that can ingest audio or MusicXML and break down a track’s DNA without losing its patience. Sometimes you just need an expert that won’t get exhausted by a million questions about a niche sub-genre.
Maybe you are the one that will have to post the mastered material for the Ai to be trained on. Sounds to me like you already have the patience needed for your learning journey...or at least I get that impression from you
I kind of have with some LLMs, you know, text-based stuff.
The thing with the kind of AI that I assume this google thingy is (like Udio and Suno), is that they use a different kind of model than LLMs. I've read just a tiny bit about something called "magenta", but I definitely do not have the skills to build my own thing, nor have I seen anything published that has the UI or inputs to try what I'm dreaming about.
To be honest, I don't know if the models behind it are capable. If they are similar to stable diffussion (or if they are stable difussion), I'm not sure if they will explicitly know music theory in a way to put into words, but I wonder if there is a way to bridge it.
Thanks! I really kind of have no choice, but I do enjoy it. The thing is that I don't feel all that confident in my amateur analyses, and it would be nice to have reassurance, even if imperfect. I mean, in the end, my ears sort of tell me more or less if I'm in the right ballpark, but I would love to accelerate that process.