Loopy Pro: Create music, your way.
What is Loopy Pro? — Loopy Pro is a powerful, flexible, and intuitive live looper, sampler, clip launcher and DAW for iPhone and iPad. At its core, it allows you to record and layer sounds in real-time to create complex musical arrangements. But it doesn’t stop there—Loopy Pro offers advanced tools to customize your workflow, build dynamic performance setups, and create a seamless connection between instruments, effects, and external gear.
Use it for live looping, sequencing, arranging, mixing, and much more. Whether you're a live performer, a producer, or just experimenting with sound, Loopy Pro helps you take control of your creative process.
Download on the App StoreLoopy Pro is your all-in-one musical toolkit. Try it for free today.
Comments
There's nothing stopping Apple from releasing a Demo platform like Testflight. All the technology is already in place, developers could upload a demo build to the platform and the build has a time limit like Testflight does. This would be better than iAP
Of course Apple don't want to do anything where they'd make less money as most people would spend less.
Subscriptions are an instant turn off for me though, and unless it's a streaming service of some kind, it just feels like a scam. Why would I want to pay for something even when I'm not using it?
Unless Apple open up the appstore more, they have built in obsolescence in the platform by design, which is why the pricing is limited. Only if they give more control to the developers and users will it solve this I think.
Well, you already do that. Unless you use apps 24/7. If you were given the chance to rent an app for a month, which is basically what the subscription model allows, then are you saying you would still prefer to spend 10x that amount to buy it outright? I think one of the benefits of paying a small fee before buying is that you have a very good idea of where it will fit into your workflow. If you only have the choice to buy it outright then you will only know that after you've bought it.
I'd rather just have a demo version than a subscription, then I can decide if I want to buy it. But yes if a sub is there as an option as well a full purchase option that might work for some people but still doesn't make sense for most consumers.
Why do you say that it doesn’t make sense? In what way?
If you really want the app yes some people would pay to try it, but if there was a free demo version as well, wouldnt you try that first?
Another way would be PAYG – each time you use it, or each length of time you use it, it adds to an account which you will pay for each month. If you haven’t used it at all this month, you don’t pay, if you’ve used it 30 seconds you pay pro-rata for that much, if you’ve used it 24 hours all weekend, you pay pro-rate for that much. It’d be like a subscription but modulated by metered usage.
The downside is that you’d want to ration your usage, like 120 film or printer ink cartridges (except I’m on the HP instant ink thing, and as soon as I went onto that years ago I became psychologically free to actually use my printer any time I liked for whatever I liked)
I like the idea of a free demo but I also like the idea of giving a dev 'something' for their efforts, even if I don't end up buying the full thing. For me it is a happy medium between feeling disgruntled because I paid full price for apps I never use for whatever reason and feeling bad for not supporting a developer's efforts even if their latest app is not something that clicks with me.
I don't know how demos (paid or free) would affect sales. It would surely force developers to do more market research before embarking on a new app and prices would likely need to be higher to compensate for the lack of "I'll give it a punt" sales.
@u0421793 I seem to recall a competitor to StudioMux (can't remember the name) has a PAYG scheme where you purchase blocks of n minutes of connection time.
It's obvious Loopy Pro wasn't created to be a one-off app and is designed to be the heart (or at least one of the hearts) of many IOS user's live or recording rigs.
Personally, I would have no problem with a subscription model for this type of an app because it hits the sweet spot of my live rig needs. But subscriptions are something I wouldn't consider on 98% of iOS apps.
I'm also open to a model where you ask a reasonable upfront price that allows for the highest adoption rate with an in-app subscription for ongoing updates for those who wish to go that route. Guessing that potentially sets up all sorts of complications with the App Store, though.
Whatever you decide, Michael - I'm in. Give as a donate link, as well. Your efforts need to be supported in every way possible.
So how much Loopy Pro should be vs hardware equivalent?
Software vs hardware is a tricky comparison because while both can achieve the same results they are like apples and oranges really.
Hardware requires a product design, physical parts, labour, factory, machinery and vast amounts of power to run it, distribution etc, etc.
It is a much more involved process with its associated risks.
Software development is involved but nowhere near as risky I think, although through a few bad choices a whole software company can easily lose millions and ruin real lives.
Buying hardware you’re set. All you need is to learn how to use it.
With software you need an iPad, interface, midi controller etc etc that can potentially run you into hardware figures. Not to mention other dedicated plug-ins you may need to buy.
Software gives you flexibility but also, perhaps because of it also instability, bugs etc. but that’s perhaps irrelevant here.
I see $30 - $50 ballpark as fair but I live in an expensive part of the world so these aren’t life altering prices to me. I can imagine this being a major outlay for someone living in a country where $500 or less is a monthly wage. Still, Loopy Pro has been developed in Australia which undoubtedly is an expensive part of the world. This, perhaps, again is just one of those things but since this forum is frequented by people from everywhere around the globe should perhaps be taken into account. Since global reach is partly why iOS prices have been reasonably low; price vs copies sold.
Again, perhaps spending more on something increases its perceived value therefore gets used with a different attitude, you know when you grandpa said that in his days he’d have one toy to play with. …
Of course the easiest way would be counting the hours spent developing
plus maintenance fee, plus apple cut etc etc but wait, this sounds like rabbit 🐇 hole
Whatever it is, if the pricing is wrong it can be adjusted further down the line. There have been crazy price tactics like Intua dropping BM3’s price to free for a while. 😮 You do what you gotta do.
All I can say is that I’m glad there is yet another great option for looping around. Accessibility to making music is what makes software so amazing. Thanks @Michael for doing your bit. 😊
Has hire purchase been suggested? You pay an amount monthly (which you can opt out of on any given month) then after six months or a year you own it, including updates. It’s time coded after the final date of purchase for three or four years, whereupon you are required to repurchase.. or not... I’m maybe overthinking this but it makes sense to me..... and it’s probably not even possible.
In-App Purchases seems like a balanced solution for feature upgrades then for major overhauls a new app seems reasonable. I feel that major overhauls are when the foundation of the app needs to updated to accommodate robust features. In addition I feel like an In-App Tip Jar would be great with the options for one time tip or tip subscription and include feature upgrades with subscription tippers 🤩
Initial Purchase
$29.99
In-App Upgrades
$4.99
Monthly Tip Subscription Tiers
.99
$2.99
$4.99
One-Time Tip Tiers
.99
$4.99
$9.99
Oh right. Well I imagine that it would be either one or the other.
I don’t think this discussion is representative. We are discussing the forum owner’s work amongst the forum owner’s fans. Plus, nothing anyone says here has any consequences whatsoever for them. The only person who has to think long and hard about this is Michael. So there are quite a lot of “I would gladly sell my house and all my possessions for a copy of this app” type posts but hardly any “I want it but I can’t afford it if it’s this much.” I guess the answer to those people would be to not buy it. I mean, we’re discussing the price of a music app that runs on a luxury device.
If I was going to be all about the dev then I’d say put it out at £75 and then keep dropping the price by a fiver say every 3 months until you get to £50 but let people know, right from release day that that is what is going to happen.
If I was going to be about the user then I’d say make it subscription on a monthly and yearly basis plus have an option to buy, with a lower price being funded by the subs.
Btw I wasn't referring to Loopy Pro specifically in my post, just for the average app.
I think the most ideal for more expensive apps with perpetual development times would be an app upgrade cycle like with equivalent desktop apps. You buy the app which includes a years license with all upgrades in that year. Then you can buy an upgrade license any year after that to include that years updates, but it's a much reduced cost than buying the full app again. (And if you don't upgrade the original app still works, you can reinstall it etc but just doesn't have the new updates features).
But Apple hasn't made this easy to do and unfortunately the ipad ecosystem is built for more casual purchases and until Apple makes the appstore more flexible, there's very little developers can do to fix it. It's the platform which is the problem and only Apple can change it and make it work better. No subscription models will help because it's not going to grow the user baser which is the main thing which will increase income for developers. (imo)
Yeah, for apps which have a lot of scope for adding features over time I would agree that the Wotja model of doing things makes sense from both sides of the fence. If I were a developer with an ambitious project then that's the model I would choose, though as you say Apple do not make it easy and presumably offer no standardised way of supporting the developer create this type of app. Other than Wotja, the only other app I have which implements this yearly feature upgrade cycle is Working Copy. That one has all of the new feature unlock stuff built in which is interesting as I think that Wotja release a separate new app each year.
(I too am/was talking in general about apps rather than Loopy Pro specifically)
Yeah the Wotja model is closer, but still not ideal because the apps get retired from the store so reinstallation becomes trickier. Also you're buying the full app again each time so it's not as good as the desktop system where you're only paying for new updates. It's closer to subscription model than paying for updates really.
Another thing Apple need to fix in the appstore (which will help with perceived value) is ability to downgrade apps to previous versions. You can do this in Testflight
That’s not bad at all considering it’s size, the wiki, and all the stuff posted, but I guess it is mostly text? Most of the larger files that are shared, ie videos and audio files, are shared via other sites like YouTube, SoundCloud, Instagram, etc… so your not storing lots of large files.
On a side note, I want to personally thank @Michael for not bombarding this forum with ads. I could understand 1 here and there, but you’ve managed to keep it super lite on ads, my guess is intentionally. One of the best forums, and my personal favorite.
3 Cheers for Mike! Hip, hip, hooray. hip, hip, hooray. hip, hip, hooray!
Please no subscription. While some might be ok with it. I completely shy away from music apps with a subscription and I don’t want to shy from this one, lol.
This I do like. I actually like the way they went with the SSSx payment system for the same reasons you mentioned. When I say subscription, I guess I mean the more traditional kind, a decent amount of money, every month, with no option to fully unlock.
Also as long as the monthly is low enough it affords you the option to do this but some apps are way more on a monthly basis.
Well, this can be achieved once Apple begin allowing devs the option of payment outside of the App Store. Initial purchase of the app instore and then any upgrades etc to be via a payment system of the dev's choice and therefore the payment structure can be whatever the dev chooses. If I'm reading that court judgement correctly, that is.
In fact, if that is possible then it would make sense to charge a very low price inside the store for, say the first month of use and then charge full price outside of the store. Because Apple.
But morals are always easy until it's something that you want, right? Why do you feel like that?
If people want ongoing development, it has to be sustainable somehow. Just look at how things have gone with NanoStudio 2. It'd be heartbreaking to see the same thing happen here. I still find subscriptions off-putting, mind you. Would prefer paid version updates, personally.
I think it's the psychology of how it's spent. Subscriptions are extra bills, and paying bills is no fun, whereas buying exciting new stuff is a pleasure.
I'd like to see how that could work, how could you download and install the updates? Apple needs to allow installing from external sources, I can't see it changing much unless Apple allow that unfortunately.
Here’s my input for what it’s worth.
Re subscriptions, I almost never pay if that’s the model. I have one sub which is around £8 a year for corkulous (I’m a writer and love this app). The way it is for me, I would only ever pay a sub for somethung that is as much a part of my life as a phone contract or iCloud. I absolutely understand what you’re saying and want devs to make sustainable money but as a consumer without a lot of it most apps just aren’t even close to being worth a continued payment in terms of usage.
So… I would definitely pay a good one off fee. If I would pay a subscription for loopy pro depends on how prominent it is. If it is going to be good enough, as an audio plus synth musician singer songwriter to kick cubasis auria off my system and become the simole yet sophisticated daw we all want I will happily pay a sub. It would have to be a low one though as it builds over time, £10 annual or so really. ( a monthly sub is out of the question, just not worth it for me having it preying on my mind). Gated access is anither possibility I agree
As the centre of my music making that kind of sub is justifiable to me. Anything else it isn’t.
I just wanted to give my input, and what’s true for me - I really respect that you have your own and why the sub model is more attractive.
I’m fond of Koala’s (samurai, auv3) or Drambo’s (wavetables) model. Basic fully functional purchase with IAP’s for extended (optional) functionality.
Not to be confused with the “pretty useless until you spend some more” model, Midi Guitar2 might be in this category.
Nice concept. Perhaps Apple could even create a system wide configurable AppTip API. That sends the user a weekly summary of app usage and suggested tips in a grid with check box
The notification would be opt-in of course.
Something like this would suit my personality very well as I do enjoy tipping in low pressure scenarios.
I like this too!
Also worth noting: all unlocks after the initial one are half price - Pro Unlock vs Pro Upgrade
Yeah, tipping feels different.
Subscriptions feel like renting. 😂