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Infinite/Aleph Looper 1.3 update -- piano roll editing improvements

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Comments

  • @JohnnyGoodyear said:

    @High5denied said:
    so........ I should get this then....huh? :)

    Yes. It's a 'get shit done' app and it has a developer who's doing things and has their head in the game.

    It's a really brilliant app.

    One day a bit of a visual/interface design love might be nice. Just because it would be cool if it looked a bit cooler to play.

  • edited August 2016

    Ok, I'm excited about trying this app. Their website didn't mention anything about recording external MIDI, and i cannot access the ios store from this android phone. Sooo..can it record midi from a class compliant device? =-D

  • @Blipsford_Baubie said:
    Ok, I'm excited about trying this app. Their website didn't mention anything about recording external MIDI, and i cannot access the ios store from this android phone. Sooo..can it record midi from a class compliant device? =-D

    If iOS recognizes it as a MIDI device, you should be good to go. The MIDI engine under the hood is Audeonic Apps' MIDIbus, which powers dozens of reliable MIDI apps.

  • @SecretBaseDesign with regard to your previous comment about making Aleph free... I think the way you have it now is the best approach. It's only a buck. If you make it free, that would devalue it too much. A buck isn't much anyway, but it at least gives it a value. It's plenty low enough for an impulse buy. And Aleph is pretty full-featured and plenty of use to see if the app is for you. Once the user sees how well it performs, and wants to take advantage of the extra ipad screen real estate, they know their buck didn't got to waste because it counts toward the purchase of IL in the form of the bundle.

    I think this is your best and most fair approach. IMHO

  • @SecretBaseDesign I am healthily obsessed with the prettiness and possibilities of this program, but along with a playhead I think I'm going to have to start begging for an undo widget. Was just making myself (happily) weep with soft soft Module piano and one of the Crudebytes string sections when I deleted a few (weirdly) well-played notes and could have killed a kitten right there and then. So, you know, on your own conscience be it etc.

  • @JohnnyGoodyear said:
    @SecretBaseDesign I am healthily obsessed with the prettiness and possibilities of this program, but along with a playhead I think I'm going to have to start begging for an undo widget. Was just making myself (happily) weep with soft soft Module piano and one of the Crudebytes string sections when I deleted a few (weirdly) well-played notes and could have killed a kitten right there and then. So, you know, on your own conscience be it etc.

    Wow! Can't have any kitten killing! That just wouldn't be right. Undo/redo is in the plans. When you stepped on the notes -- was this in the piano roll, or with the main interface swipe-left-and-delete?

  • edited August 2016

    Agree. Even a single level of undo would be so awesome as I've also recoded some nice notes in loop mode only to record some bad ones and swipe delete only to regret that deleted the entire loop :/ . No kitties were harmed tho o:)

  • @SecretBaseDesign said:

    @JohnnyGoodyear said:
    @SecretBaseDesign I am healthily obsessed with the prettiness and possibilities of this program, but along with a playhead I think I'm going to have to start begging for an undo widget. Was just making myself (happily) weep with soft soft Module piano and one of the Crudebytes string sections when I deleted a few (weirdly) well-played notes and could have killed a kitten right there and then. So, you know, on your own conscience be it etc.

    Wow! Can't have any kitten killing! That just wouldn't be right. Undo/redo is in the plans. When you stepped on the notes -- was this in the piano roll, or with the main interface swipe-left-and-delete?

    It was in the piano roll. Didn't realized I had the 'pen' selected and lost a few notes before I realized what I was doing (quite a common state of affairs for me)...took a good while to get them back and never did quite replicate what was there...this is especially important (undo) as the program saves as it goes along, so there is no going back etc.

  • @JohnnyGoodyear said:

    @SecretBaseDesign said:

    @JohnnyGoodyear said:
    @SecretBaseDesign I am healthily obsessed with the prettiness and possibilities of this program, but along with a playhead I think I'm going to have to start begging for an undo widget. Was just making myself (happily) weep with soft soft Module piano and one of the Crudebytes string sections when I deleted a few (weirdly) well-played notes and could have killed a kitten right there and then. So, you know, on your own conscience be it etc.

    Wow! Can't have any kitten killing! That just wouldn't be right. Undo/redo is in the plans. When you stepped on the notes -- was this in the piano roll, or with the main interface swipe-left-and-delete?

    It was in the piano roll. Didn't realized I had the 'pen' selected and lost a few notes before I realized what I was doing (quite a common state of affairs for me)...took a good while to get them back and never did quite replicate what was there...this is especially important (undo) as the program saves as it goes along, so there is no going back etc.

    Ok -- good to know. The "hamburger" dialog will include an undo/redo pane, where you can step forward or backwards on your changes, or revert to the original state when you opened the piano roll. I can checkpoint each edit operation, so that's all relatively painless (and there's a place in the UI where I can put it).

    Undo from the main loop interface may be a little more tricky -- if you're recording notes as the thing loops around, knowing how far to roll back may be a bit tricky.... Just the last pass of the loop, or more? And getting a spot on the UI where the controls will be easy to find.. hmmm, need more coffee.

    And on an unrelated note, did you know that the GPX file format sucks? It does! It seriously sucks. Not so much that I can't decipher it, but dang, it's messy.

  • @MusicMan4Christ said:
    Agree. Even a single level of undo would be so awesome as I've also recoded some nice notes in loop mode only to record some bad ones and swipe delete only to regret that deleted the entire loop :/ . No kitties were harmed tho o:)

    This will be a bit more tricky to get sorted out -- right now, delete clears the entire loop... But I may be able to wrangle something so that it only removes notes added in the last pass, or something like that.

    Or maybe I'll have swipe still remove everything, but with the possibility of restoring the notes by entering the piano roll (with maybe some levels of undo available there). Hmmmm.

  • @SecretBaseDesign said:

    @JohnnyGoodyear said:

    @SecretBaseDesign said:

    @JohnnyGoodyear said:
    @SecretBaseDesign I am healthily obsessed with the prettiness and possibilities of this program, but along with a playhead I think I'm going to have to start begging for an undo widget. Was just making myself (happily) weep with soft soft Module piano and one of the Crudebytes string sections when I deleted a few (weirdly) well-played notes and could have killed a kitten right there and then. So, you know, on your own conscience be it etc.

    Wow! Can't have any kitten killing! That just wouldn't be right. Undo/redo is in the plans. When you stepped on the notes -- was this in the piano roll, or with the main interface swipe-left-and-delete?

    It was in the piano roll. Didn't realized I had the 'pen' selected and lost a few notes before I realized what I was doing (quite a common state of affairs for me)...took a good while to get them back and never did quite replicate what was there...this is especially important (undo) as the program saves as it goes along, so there is no going back etc.

    Ok -- good to know. The "hamburger" dialog will include an undo/redo pane, where you can step forward or backwards on your changes, or revert to the original state when you opened the piano roll. I can checkpoint each edit operation, so that's all relatively painless (and there's a place in the UI where I can put it).

    Undo from the main loop interface may be a little more tricky -- if you're recording notes as the thing loops around, knowing how far to roll back may be a bit tricky.... Just the last pass of the loop, or more? And getting a spot on the UI where the controls will be easy to find.. hmmm, need more coffee.

    And on an unrelated note, did you know that the GPX file format sucks? It does! It seriously sucks. Not so much that I can't decipher it, but dang, it's messy.

    Drink down that coffee Mister.

    For me (who is simple, so might not suit everyone) just the ability to uncluster my unintentional fuck-up would be 98% of the benefit. I can see that there are different issues (and I do love the erase/delete slide for the whole pattern). I quite like the Looptical (and others approach) which undoes to the last time you hit the record button, but this doesn't address the 'in piano roll' issue for which an 'I made a mistake Doctor please bring it back' button is still the most desirable choice. In Auria's piano roll I sometimes go back (and then forward) a whole bunch of steps to get a better idea of where I am and what I was doing, which is nice, BUT -again- the ability to sort out a mis-delete would be most of the game for me....

  • edited August 2016

    @JohnnyGoodyear said:

    @SecretBaseDesign said:

    @JohnnyGoodyear said:

    @SecretBaseDesign said:

    @JohnnyGoodyear said:
    @SecretBaseDesign I am healthily obsessed with the prettiness and possibilities of this program, but along with a playhead I think I'm going to have to start begging for an undo widget. Was just making myself (happily) weep with soft soft Module piano and one of the Crudebytes string sections when I deleted a few (weirdly) well-played notes and could have killed a kitten right there and then. So, you know, on your own conscience be it etc.

    Wow! Can't have any kitten killing! That just wouldn't be right. Undo/redo is in the plans. When you stepped on the notes -- was this in the piano roll, or with the main interface swipe-left-and-delete?

    It was in the piano roll. Didn't realized I had the 'pen' selected and lost a few notes before I realized what I was doing (quite a common state of affairs for me)...took a good while to get them back and never did quite replicate what was there...this is especially important (undo) as the program saves as it goes along, so there is no going back etc.

    Ok -- good to know. The "hamburger" dialog will include an undo/redo pane, where you can step forward or backwards on your changes, or revert to the original state when you opened the piano roll. I can checkpoint each edit operation, so that's all relatively painless (and there's a place in the UI where I can put it).

    Undo from the main loop interface may be a little more tricky -- if you're recording notes as the thing loops around, knowing how far to roll back may be a bit tricky.... Just the last pass of the loop, or more? And getting a spot on the UI where the controls will be easy to find.. hmmm, need more coffee.

    And on an unrelated note, did you know that the GPX file format sucks? It does! It seriously sucks. Not so much that I can't decipher it, but dang, it's messy.

    Drink down that coffee Mister.

    For me (who is simple, so might not suit everyone) just the ability to uncluster my unintentional fuck-up would be 98% of the benefit. I can see that there are different issues (and I do love the erase/delete slide for the whole pattern). I quite like the Looptical (and others approach) which undoes to the last time you hit the record button, but this doesn't address the 'in piano roll' issue for which an 'I made a mistake Doctor please bring it back' button is still the most desirable choice. In Auria's piano roll I sometimes go back (and then forward) a whole bunch of steps to get a better idea of where I am and what I was doing, which is nice, BUT -again- the ability to sort out a mis-delete would be most of the game for me....

    As with most things, I would study how Gadget does it and do it like that. Those guys have nailed so much of this stuff.

    • when recording in playing, undo removes everything since record was last pressed (it's a great quick way of trying things out then changing your mind)
    • when editing in the piano roll it is at a note by note, press by press level

    I would personally say keep it simple on the undo, since it's not the most exciting of features :).

  • @JohnnyGoodyear , drink down that coffee Mister....

    Really gave me a good laugh General!

    Loving this little amazing app! So excited to see what's in store and upcoming!

    @SecretBaseDesign thanks for making this app part of your awesome handiwork! Helps us really make music intuitively and it just works!

  • @MusicMan4Christ said:
    @JohnnyGoodyear , drink down that coffee Mister....

    Really gave me a good laugh General!

    Loving this little amazing app! So excited to see what's in store and upcoming!

    @SecretBaseDesign thanks for making this app part of your awesome handiwork! Helps us really make music intuitively and it just works!

    Agreed. It's so interesting the balance between utility and effectiveness. IL is def. in the relative sweet-spot...

  • I'm really hoping someday we can import a midi file into IL. I'm really loving the acoustic and electric guitars in Sampletank 2.0 that I'm trying to find as many guitar electric or acoustic midi files to drive ST. I know I can use a DAW on the iPad but on the iPhone is there anything that can do this? Truly hoping IL could get midi file import someday?

  • @SecretBaseDesign , Regarding Sidecar update, is it possible to send a start/stop message to Midiband 3? The dev @Ksh Said the following in order for it to work:

    @Ksh said: As I said above, MidiBand needs you to generate a MIDI out event in the F0-FF range (correction: F0-F7 range). It seems like message F0 7F 82 06 F7 fits this description, as it is only the first byte that matters. You may not be able to make various pads behave differently, but all of them should be able to trigger Start/Stop, once you change the default F2 setting to F0 on the Midi Engine Settings page (enter wait mode in MidiBand/press the pad on your MIDI Controller to accept F0).


  • @MusicMan4Christ said:
    @SecretBaseDesign , Regarding Sidecar update, is it possible to send a start/stop message to Midiband 3? The dev @Ksh Said the following in order for it to work:

    @Ksh said: As I said above, MidiBand needs you to generate a MIDI out event in the F0-FF range (correction: F0-F7 range). It seems like message F0 7F 82 06 F7 fits this description, as it is only the first byte that matters. You may not be able to make various pads behave differently, but all of them should be able to trigger Start/Stop, once you change the default F2 setting to F0 on the Midi Engine Settings page (enter wait mode in MidiBand/press the pad on your MIDI Controller to accept F0).

    Next version of Sidecar will have MIDI start and stop, and probably Ableton Link support too. I'm thinking of making this a separate panel (with Link, and the MIDI start/stop stuff), rather than something you'd configure into a pad.

  • When I try to trigger start/stop in Midiband remotely nothing triggers it. I guess you know this stuff as its regarding code but I wonder if having it Tucked away going to defeat the purpose of hitting start in realtime via a pad or switch for lack of better term.
    If you would kindly, after consuming huge amounts of freshly brewed coffee, integrate this option into Infinite Looper, I would be extremely grateful :)

  • @SecretBaseDesign said:

    I'll also disable switching tracks unless you tap on the track header (or at least make this a configurable option). This has been something that I've found annoying too -- you code some things up one way, imagining how it will work, and then you actually start using it, and it feels totally different....

    Hi Patrick, has this been implemented into Infinite Looper? At the moment in Aleph it appears to behave still as @Matt_Fletcher_2000 described, changing the keyboard sound when muting an alternative channel.

    I have a few other quick questions...

    • What is the symbol next to Channel sound that alternates between 4 and 1 black bars?
    • Will there be functionality to 'record' a chord to the pads? This would be useful to use for inversions rather than using all root positions.
    • Are there plans to increase from 6 instruments?
    • Is there a PDF manual available?

    I like the app and very likely to upgrade to Infinite.

    Thanks in advance :)

  • edited October 2016

    @SpookyZoo said:

    @SecretBaseDesign said:

    I'll also disable switching tracks unless you tap on the track header (or at least make this a configurable option). This has been something that I've found annoying too -- you code some things up one way, imagining how it will work, and then you actually start using it, and it feels totally different....

    Hi Patrick, has this been implemented into Infinite Looper? At the moment in Aleph it appears to behave still as @Matt_Fletcher_2000 described, changing the keyboard sound when muting an alternative channel.

    I have a few other quick questions...

    • What is the symbol next to Channel sound that alternates between 4 and 1 black bars?
    • Will there be functionality to 'record' a chord to the pads? This would be useful to use for inversions rather than using all root positions.
    • Are there plans to increase from 6 instruments?
    • Is there a PDF manual available?

    I like the app and very likely to upgrade to Infinite.

    Thanks in advance :)

    I suggest you upgrade to Infinite forthwith Mister Spooky. Firstly because you should, it's great, the dev deserves your business and encouragement and you will look back fondly and offer sincere thanks to those who encouraged you etc etc. Secondly because there are few times life affords the opportunity to look dolefully across at your lover/partner (or even the cat) and mutter I'm upgrading to the infinite, baby... and then just carry on.

  • @JohnnyGoodyear said:

    ...there are few times life affords the opportunity to look dolefully across at your lover/partner (or even the cat) and mutter I'm upgrading to the infinite, baby... and then just carry on.

    Definitely worth the bucks for that epic moment. Well painted!

    Unfortunately having a few gremlins with Aleph today. I've contacted Patrick so hopefully will have some insight into that in the next few days.

    Still wondering what that icon is that switches between 4 & 1 black dots. I thought it might be a sustain but doesn't appear so. Any ideas?

  • @SpookyZoo said:

    @JohnnyGoodyear said:

    ...there are few times life affords the opportunity to look dolefully across at your lover/partner (or even the cat) and mutter I'm upgrading to the infinite, baby... and then just carry on.

    Definitely worth the bucks for that epic moment. Well painted!

    Unfortunately having a few gremlins with Aleph today. I've contacted Patrick so hopefully will have some insight into that in the next few days.

    Still wondering what that icon is that switches between 4 & 1 black dots. I thought it might be a sustain but doesn't appear so. Any ideas?

    Ah the black lines/dots quandary. I would also like to know. To be honest I have a special kind of app-phasia which causes me to go blind at things I don't understand. If I don't get it right away and it doesn't seem to break anything it disappears from my sightline/consciousness forever thereafter...

  • Hey -- just got back home from a trip... The single/multiple black bars thing will set the track to support multiple active loops, or only a single active loop. In single loop mode -- if you tap to toggle one loop on, the other loops on the track toggle off automatically.

    This is all well documented in the documentation that will exist in the future! (Yes, I know, I know! I really need to get this stuff written down somewhere!)

    @SpookyZoo -- just saw your emails, will take a look & try to figure out what happened tomorrow. Right now, head still kind of vibrating from being stuck in an aluminum tube for a few hours.

  • @SecretBaseDesign Trust your own bed was a pleasure.

    Was working on a (for me) pretty complex piece this morning and while editing was really wishing I could see the play head moving by. I know, that old thing again :)

    Also, and I'm sure I'm missing it, can I rename a track? Once a POS turns into something that I don't want to call POS any more?

  • @JohnnyGoodyear said:
    @SecretBaseDesign Trust your own bed was a pleasure.

    Was working on a (for me) pretty complex piece this morning and while editing was really wishing I could see the play head moving by. I know, that old thing again :)

    Also, and I'm sure I'm missing it, can I rename a track? Once a POS turns into something that I don't want to call POS any more?

    So -- play head moving by in the piano roll, right? I'll try to get that into the next update. It should be visible now on the main "loop" screen, ticking away with each beat -- I may hack it to move continuously in an update, so that it's more like what you see in Gadget.

    For renaming a track -- on the file tab, just hit "duplicate" -- and give it the new name. You can then swipe and delete the old name (if you want), or keep it around for a while as a backup.

  • @SecretBaseDesign said:

    @JohnnyGoodyear said:
    @SecretBaseDesign Trust your own bed was a pleasure.

    Was working on a (for me) pretty complex piece this morning and while editing was really wishing I could see the play head moving by. I know, that old thing again :)

    Also, and I'm sure I'm missing it, can I rename a track? Once a POS turns into something that I don't want to call POS any more?

    So -- play head moving by in the piano roll, right? I'll try to get that into the next update. It should be visible now on the main "loop" screen, ticking away with each beat -- I may hack it to move continuously in an update, so that it's more like what you see in Gadget.

    Would be much appreciated. When editing there's something about seeing a play head hit the note that makes it easier (for me at least) to understand where it needs to be if it's not where it needs to be etc.

    For renaming a track -- on the file tab, just hit "duplicate" -- and give it the new name. You can then swipe and delete the old name (if you want), or keep it around for a while as a backup.

    Good simple workaround. Thanks.

  • @Matt_Fletcher_2000 said:

    @JohnnyGoodyear said:

    @SecretBaseDesign said:

    @JohnnyGoodyear said:

    @SecretBaseDesign said:

    @JohnnyGoodyear said:
    @SecretBaseDesign I am healthily obsessed with the prettiness and possibilities of this program, but along with a playhead I think I'm going to have to start begging for an undo widget. Was just making myself (happily) weep with soft soft Module piano and one of the Crudebytes string sections when I deleted a few (weirdly) well-played notes and could have killed a kitten right there and then. So, you know, on your own conscience be it etc.

    Wow! Can't have any kitten killing! That just wouldn't be right. Undo/redo is in the plans. When you stepped on the notes -- was this in the piano roll, or with the main interface swipe-left-and-delete?

    It was in the piano roll. Didn't realized I had the 'pen' selected and lost a few notes before I realized what I was doing (quite a common state of affairs for me)...took a good while to get them back and never did quite replicate what was there...this is especially important (undo) as the program saves as it goes along, so there is no going back etc.

    Ok -- good to know. The "hamburger" dialog will include an undo/redo pane, where you can step forward or backwards on your changes, or revert to the original state when you opened the piano roll. I can checkpoint each edit operation, so that's all relatively painless (and there's a place in the UI where I can put it).

    Undo from the main loop interface may be a little more tricky -- if you're recording notes as the thing loops around, knowing how far to roll back may be a bit tricky.... Just the last pass of the loop, or more? And getting a spot on the UI where the controls will be easy to find.. hmmm, need more coffee.

    And on an unrelated note, did you know that the GPX file format sucks? It does! It seriously sucks. Not so much that I can't decipher it, but dang, it's messy.

    Drink down that coffee Mister.

    For me (who is simple, so might not suit everyone) just the ability to uncluster my unintentional fuck-up would be 98% of the benefit. I can see that there are different issues (and I do love the erase/delete slide for the whole pattern). I quite like the Looptical (and others approach) which undoes to the last time you hit the record button, but this doesn't address the 'in piano roll' issue for which an 'I made a mistake Doctor please bring it back' button is still the most desirable choice. In Auria's piano roll I sometimes go back (and then forward) a whole bunch of steps to get a better idea of where I am and what I was doing, which is nice, BUT -again- the ability to sort out a mis-delete would be most of the game for me....

    As with most things, I would study how Gadget does it and do it like that. Those guys have nailed so much of this stuff.

    • when recording in playing, undo removes everything since record was last pressed (it's a great quick way of trying things out then changing your mind)
    • when editing in the piano roll it is at a note by note, press by press level

    I would personally say keep it simple on the undo, since it's not the most exciting of features :).

    I would highly +1 taking inspiration from Gadget. I've been doing music on iOS for almost 5 years - tried many different sequencing apps - and nothing has ever co> @JohnnyGoodyear said:

    @SecretBaseDesign said:

    @JohnnyGoodyear said:
    @SecretBaseDesign Trust your own bed was a pleasure.

    Was working on a (for me) pretty complex piece this morning and while editing was really wishing I could see the play head moving by. I know, that old thing again :)

    Also, and I'm sure I'm missing it, can I rename a track? Once a POS turns into something that I don't want to call POS any more?

    So -- play head moving by in the piano roll, right? I'll try to get that into the next update. It should be visible now on the main "loop" screen, ticking away with each beat -- I may hack it to move continuously in an update, so that it's more like what you see in Gadget.

    Would be much appreciated. When editing there's something about seeing a play head hit the note that makes it easier (for me at least) to understand where it needs to be if it's not where it needs to be etc.

    For renaming a track -- on the file tab, just hit "duplicate" -- and give it the new name. You can then swipe and delete the old name (if you want), or keep it around for a while as a backup.

    Good simple workaround. Thanks.

    the moving playhead idea would be highly appreciated here too!

  • ..

    @SecretBaseDesign said:
    Hey -- just got back home from a trip... The single/multiple black bars thing will set the track to support multiple active loops, or only a single active loop. In single loop mode -- if you tap to toggle one loop on, the other loops on the track toggle off automatically.

    This is all well documented in the documentation that will exist in the future! (Yes, I know, I know! I really need to get this stuff written down somewhere!)

    @SpookyZoo -- just saw your emails, will take a look & try to figure out what happened tomorrow. Right now, head still kind of vibrating from being stuck in an aluminum tube for a few hours.

    Thanks for clarifying the icon meaning. :)

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