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Comments
Why? What consequences?
I'm still struggling to see what benefits those might have or consequences there might have been (not trolling or arguing, I'm a full time iOS developer with 10 years experience, just curious what benefits or consequences people think it might have had, as personally I can't think of any, other than somebody can't afford a Mac but has an iPad and wants to try out iOS dev)
^ same here. New developer but can’t think of any benefit other than perhaps for small scale development or prototyping.
Xcode on iOS wouldn’t bring anything like that. It’s just an app development environment for edit and compiling apps. Those apps would have no more capability for having been developed on iOS than if they are developed on a Mac, and experience of doing so would be terrible. Xcode is cramped enough on a 16” notebook screen. Bleh.
Just watched the 18-minute summary. Enjoyed the comedy...
Apple seems to have lost their innovative edge completely and started copying features from other platforms mostly. The only exception seems to be the spatial audio feature for the airpods and Dolby Atmos support....? The rest was meh....
Oh, but the watch tells you how long to wash your hands! You must have missed that bombshell.
xcode is hard to use even on my 15" macbook, i use it exclusively just with attached 26" monitor... on small ipad screen it would be useless...
Xcode Playgrounds could be useful if you could use it more effectively for prototyping. As it is now, it’s really only good for teaching stuff in an annoying cute little game context**. Other than that, wishing for Xcode on iOS is just weird (to me) ... or maybe people just don’t really understand what it is.
( ** good for kids though I guess )
this
same like wishing full logic for ios...
People wishing for full logic on ipad mean: i need a better garageband. Need it for creativity on the go.
I understand it would not be good for serious music producers in the studio.
But for people on the go for creativity: priceless. I could live with zooming etc on an ipad pro if i have mobile creativity. I would use the apple pencil etc.
There is something good about garageband on ios. Inspires me to start writing. Apple: make it better or even turn it into Logic please.
Not wanting to start a flame war but I genuinely don't understand why it wouldn't be cool to have logic / fcp in at least some tweaked form on an iPad. as everything moves to the same processors, it would be possible to have a complete (or almost complete) clone of a desktop system on an iPad (the developer system is essentially a 2020 iPad Pro with more ram and I/O). sure, the screen space is an issue (though not as big as people seem to imply, now that there's mouse and keyboard support), but it's not like apple aren't good at UI.
I remember exactly the same arguments about laptops a few years back. I used to run protools on a 12" powerbook G4 (and before that an 800Mhz titanium G4) with an mbox when I was out and about / working with someone else, and had a G5 at home. The systems were essentially cloned and aside from the mass storage for big sample libraries (back when that was expensive), everything worked fine. At at the time, I would get comments like "oh, you can't do that" to which I would say "but I am". I mixed entire albums on that G4.
The iOS-ification of macOS11 / Big Sur is a sign that they're moving to a unified experience as well as unified technology.
This is a good thing, imo. It means, with near certainty, Ableton, ProTools, Native Instruments, etc etc all on mobile in some shape or form. How cool would it be to work on a project on desktop, sync it via iCloud and pickup where you left off in the park / on a plane / etc.
Plus, is anyone else excited about Foundation?
I’ve got the latest MBP. New battery obviously, but I’m only charging it twice a week, and it runs totally silently. I’ve only heard the fans once, when I tried pushing Live with about ten instruments and a million fx loaded up. It’s the base model, but runs like greased lighting. My 8 year old laptop is also still going strong.
I’m sure the new Macs are going to be great, but it’s not like the current MBP range is crap. If anything, it’s the best it’s been for years. My motto has always been ‘if it ain’t broke, don’t start mucking about with radical new hardware and software’, but what do I know? Nothing, obviously.
I’m conflicted as my primary use is graphics so I’d more or less discounted the MacBook from my list and was veering towards a new acer line that includes nvdia cards and Wacom screens... but if this arm stuff is really good at graphics then it could be a good move to hold off until they’re out as the whole cisc+gpu solution is really feeling quite ungainly at this point, especially in a laptop, and with sidecar, it’s possible to eliminate the need for Wacom - I actually prefer the pencil these days, just so much more natural feeling...
completely agree (not about the knowing nothing, obvs). having been burned by a 2016 15" touch bar (crappy keyboard, fans on all the time, TB ports randomly disconnecting under load) which finally died, and almost contemplating a switch to windows, got an 8-core i9 16" mbp and it is insanely good. it's almost as is making them thin is not the ultimate goal of a computer design
Are the graphics in the new MBP that bad? I’m not doing video or 3D stuff, but doing a lot of photo/graphic design work on mine. I thought I was going to have to hook it up to a monitor like my old Mac, but the extra screen size, and clear retina screen mean I haven’t bothered.
Funnily enough I was thinking about a new iPad with Pencil support for graphics work, but have been using a cheap pointer with my Air 2, and I find it frustrating having my big mitt hand in the way. When I recently did a bit of logo work I pulled out the Wacom, and really enjoyed having a clear view of what I was doing on the laptop screen.
They’re fine for most uses but 3D is pretty fixated on nvidia and cuda at the moment. That’s shifting slowly to more real time solutions that are based on games tech which is ace as rendering is becoming a pleasure again... but even for this the MacBook graphics are just a little underpowered right now for that sort of thing, and support for VR is being dropped as a result.
So I’m hoping that this ARM move might predicate a little revolution that rationalises the last ten years of kludgy development with something a bit more elegant and scalable...
Yeah, Apple are no stranger to lemons, and the stand out products are worth grabbing when they come along. The 2012 MBP’s, Air 2’s, recent iMacs...
In 3D graphics the Mac is completely dead, so it's ironic that they used Maya as a demo. Even the die-hard Mac users have had to transition to Windows over the last five to ten years because all the action is with NVidia, and Apple will not put Nvidia cards in Macs.
Also for 3D packages, from a dev perspective I would think supporting the Mac going forward is going to be a massive hassle. OpenGL deprecated and now transitioning to ARM. That's two massive architecture changes to account for.
In the past these transitions have been hugely disruptive, the transition to Intel first, and then from 32bit to 64bit when they suddenly dropped the Carbon API that was embedded in tons of apps, not least Photoshop. Every time this happens you get a messy couple of years while the devs try to catch up. Ultimately these changes swallow up huge amounts of development time.
Ah ok, I'm pretty ignorant of anything 3D and video - everythings flat and static in my graphical world.
Couldn't you just hook up an external GPU though?
Considering the mess they made of adding a new keyboard to their laptops a few years back, I'm guessing the 'bumps in the road' they've predicted will be big ones.
I’ve though about the eGPU option, but it’s fairly expensive on top of the price of a nice MacBook and other manufacturers include them in the actual laptop... there is a small advantage perhaps in terms of flexibility and the ability to upgrade later, also heat dissipation. But the fact that it’s basically a big kludge puts me off a bit, that and all the other advantages of a laptop are somewhat negated by being attached to a big box that needs plugging in...
I’m going to watch with interest how the developers react to the ARM thing over the next few months, I could be pleasantly surprised, or maybe not
Nah. Of course they had to change the GUI at parts and maybe a light version would be already nice.
It is more about simple features no iOS DAW seems to offer and even more the unique tools and instruments like Alchemy, Sculpture, ChromaVerb and a lot more. It would be just the only "complete" package.
I must say nothing yet can beat NS in terms of multi-touch GUI for me.
This is the more 'geeky' session, well worth a look...
https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2020/102/
At one time they're running iOS 3rd party 'App Extensions' as they are within the Photo's app.
They also mention that apps that require no modification will show up as purchased apps in the AppStore on a Mac and developers can opt-in/out to make their apps available across all devices.
So In short AUv3's already work as 'App Extensions' so they should theoretically pop up in Logic if/when installed on the device.
The interesting thing will be if we can run ARM apps on Intel even if it would mean a big performance hit
I bet Korg will opt-out
That'd be good, and stop the inevitable backlash from existing Intel customers feeling locked-out from all the new shiny things. Some kind of emulator, maybe.
Since they've announced there's still new Intel machines in the pipeline to be released, it'd be weird doing this with the knowledge customers will be buying an unsupported product.
Or they could unify the Apple codebase and charge the double for the 'other' platforms as it would need 'extra work'
The other factor that has contributed to the death of the Mac in 3D is the advent of Threadripper CPUs. You can build a 16core machine for under two grand, with 32GB RAM and a decent GPU. If you're willing to spend more you can get a 32 core machine with dual GPUs for five grand, or even go for a 64 core CPU.
Apple simply isn't catering to this market, they have no offerings that make sense. The iMac Pro starts at just under five grand for an eight-core CPU. You would be paying twice as much for a quarter of the performance of a budget Threadripper.
Ever since they killed off the old tower Mac Pros the "pro" offerings have been completely underwhelming. The trash can and the iMac Pro just didn't make sense for 3D in any way. And the laptops and iMacs just can't handle extended rendering because of the thermal designs, I've seen iMacs that are literally falling apart because their CPUs have been running for extended periods and the glue melts.
The new towers are a step in the right direction but the prices are insane. And they still don't have the option of Nvidia cards. Basically they're offering AMD GPUs and Intel CPUs when the market is in the exact opposite direction: Nvidia for the GPU and AMD Threadripper for the CPU.
WWDC has left me in a quandary now.
Was raising the courage to get a MBP 16 but am not so sure now. 3 grand for a laptop, I would expect nearly a decade of usage for that kind of moolah. Could wait for an ARM but that is going to be a year and they may be a bit ropey, the earlier models anyway. Decisions, decisions..