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The fact that this discussion has forked to speculation about processors rather than anything else coming out of WWDC speaks volumes. There is virtually nothing of interest to music app developers or musicians that I can see. I keep trolling the sessions for stuff I can use in my learning journey and there ain't squat.
Some of the SwiftUI stuff is interesting. But unless one wants to develop for only iOS 13 and higher, SwiftUI is of no use.
There are literally zero advancements in anything useful related to audio plugin development that I can see. I had hoped that after virtually half a decade of silence, there would be at least a few sessions related to AUv3 development.
Nothin'. It's simply not important to Apple. Sigh.
...and literally the worlds most powerful computer is arm-based (48 core Fujitsu SOCs made by TSMC)
https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/23/21300097/fugaku-supercomputer-worlds-fastest-top500-riken-fujitsu-arm
Obviously apples and oranges (pun intended) but there is no theoretical reason why Apple can’t build chips that out-perform xeons.
The chip in a current gen iPad Pro can run three streams of 4K video with live filters. And it’s a two year old chip with a dormant gpu core switched on.
I wouldn’t underestimate the potential for management, and the accounts department to undermine what they come up with either. they have a nasty habit of limiting, or mucking up good ideas in my experience, just to shave a few quid off the cost, or millimetres off the design.
Most interesting stuff is developers-related, so no wonder it is not topic here ... There is lot of pretty cool dev-related stuff around X-code and Swift, lot of interesting topics aready released and other are in queue .. For example StoreKIT for testing IAP purchases in the box directly inside xCode is BIG help ! Also advances in UICollectionView are looking interesting ...
Yes, some helpful things for developers in general. But virtually complete radio silence about anything related to audio plugin or host development ... since 2015.
That was my point. Not that there's nothing of interest going on in other areas. Very disappointing IMO.
I want to take a look at the IAP vid. If they've improved that, it could be helpful.
This year it’s Mostly about Mac. Most other years Mac users complain it’s all about iPhone.
But yeah, I don’t think what we do is important enough for Apple to want to talk about it in a developer conference.
It has been very quiet about Auv3 etc. They don’t appear to have done much under-the-hood work.
However, I would have been more worried if Apple hadn’t released Logic Pro 10.5 recently. It’s probably the single best update Apple have released for Logic since they acquired it from Emagic. (I’ve had every single update since 1.1 I think. They used to send updates on floppies in the post).
There are lots of features in LPX that look like they’ll work really well on iOS. (Liveloops and the step sequencer started off on iOS obviously, but some of the new stuff like the quick sampler would be freaking awesome in an iOS app).
I think an update to GB is overdue. I hope it’s good!
Actually exactly zero directly related to audio plugins. And not a lick of developer help since the initial 2015 WWDC presentation and their one example app. The minimal documentation hasn't been extended or improved either. For five years. Half a decade.
This is true. The stellar Logic Pro update, and the way they're morphing the interface toward touch friendliness is encouraging.
Yep.
On iOS or Mac, or both? I'm pretty impressed with the capabilities of GarageBand on the Mac, but it's missing features like clip launching that they added to Logic rather than GarageBand. I hope it trickles down. I like GB on the Mac and don't have the $$ to spend on Logic.
Here is some audio related sample code that I think was released with WWDC-2020: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/accelerate/equalizing_audio_with_vdsp
As per usual Apple standards, communicating audio capabilities is not done through flashy presentations but rather hidden in header files of sample code projects.
Nice! Thanks for that. I'll take anything I can get.
Fortunately many independent developers are generous in sharing their experience and code, but it's nice to see anything directly from Apple when possible.
I agree there. I just finished mixing and editing a classical recording and these edits would have been absolute hell in auria. As it was they were pretty tough in logic, partly because I’m still getting used to my new trackball. But grouping tracks for editing and such, moving the tracks around, and doing proper crossfades are a real pain on touchscreen (for me).
This makes sense to me. Unfortunately - obviously - audio segment has low priority in Apple. Just look at number of GarageBand updates... just look at fact that you still need use C++ wrapped in Objective C wrapper for audio thread code '''
But this is not problem of iPad or touchscreen as technology .... this is problem of Auria's clunky UI. You can't blame touchscreen when issue is here that Auria has totaly touchscreen not-friendly UI ... You cannot take desktop-app type of UI, use it for iPad app end expect it would be great ... It would be fail and Auria is good example ... Edit audio (to be honest edit anything) in Auria is extreme pita simply because it's UI is agains all principles of touchscreen/iOS UI.
Interesting thread. Does anyone have an idea if Mac OS will move to model where you only can install apps from the Appstore. So they can guarantee safety with everything installed and also can take a share of the price of the app.
Seems unlikely, but if they do it will be the end of the Mac as a serious machine for developers.
I'm sure that's what Apple's primary goal is in all this.
In Reaper I mostly use the keyboard. Any app that has good keyboard shortcuts will always win in terms of efficiency. As a million Emacs/VIM users can testify.
Audio thread code in Swift would be a bad idea. Though be nice if Apple supported Rust I guess.
Auv3 on the desktop seems to be a bit of a disaster currently. Doesn't work well, limited developer interest.
That computer has 138,240 processors. It's a little different to anything that Apple is likely to be selling. This tells you literally nothing about whether Apple is likely to be able to build a Xeon competitor.
I like ARM chips a lot, I regret not taking a job there 25 years ago. But high performance is not a space they are particularly competitive in currently.
I think you overestimate the value of this. Intel spends $12.5 billion a year on chip/silicon R&D - more than any other company on the planet (including Apple) and owns its own foundries. It has been staring down the barrel of its own obsolescence for nearly 30 years, and yet it's still here. The same cannot be said for 99% of its competitors. It has 50 years of institutional expertise at every level of the chip business, from making supercomputers to IoT. From literally building chips, to advanced quantum research.
By any sane metric, Intel should not even be a player in the laptop business. The fact that they've managed to keep that architecture in play, despite all it's disadvantages, is extraordinary. Intel has always been a lot more comfortable (and ARM less so) in situations where cooling and power are not significant constraints.
It took ARM years to get to the point where it was a serious competitor to Intel in an area where Intel had never been particularly strong. AMD also has really struggled over the years to remain competitive with Intel.
Apple does not currently produce high end performance CPUs. If history is a guide it will take them several years to get to that point, by which point Intel will probably have something much better in that space. And where they have been able to rely upon and build upon ARMs expertise in low power processors - high performance is not something ARM has invested much time or money into. This will require a lot of R&D, and honestly a lot of failures.
Yes. The only thread safe way to do the audio processing part is C++. I'm fine with that, but wish they would provide better documentation and more examples of interfacing Swift to that C++ code, managing the UI interactions through Swift, etc.
I'm very, very slowly getting there, but with little thanks to Apple.
@wim @cian
what about this ? that sounds promising ! It's from "what's new in swift" from WWDC2020
_ We have moved Swift's Standard Library, so it sits below Foundation in the stack. That means it can actually be used to implement frameworks that will float below the level of Objective-C where previously C had to be used._
Maybe. I'm not able to tell if that means anything for audio processing. I think not however because as far as I know swift isn't thread-safe. At any rate, at my level, even if will now be able to be used, it will still be beyond my reach without examples. (Maybe that example @bleep posted has some clues. I have to dive into that one later.)
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Apple tend to be a creature of habit. They will probably want to get the transition over as quickly as possible (they were way ahead of their stated schedule in the transition to intel) and then they supported PowerPC for years to come but the lineup was 100% Intel in less than 2 years from announcement.
If they follow a similar path this time, you’d think the Mac Pro would be part of that from everything that Apple have said.
If they can’t match Xeon performance with their SoCs, I wonder where that leaves the Mac Pro. They surely can’t in all seriousness weaken it with inferior silicon. And leaving intel inside at the top of the range would not be a good look and would severely harm their reputation.
It does make you wonder what their plans are. If they have plans to make the Mac Pro with Apple silicon then they surely must already have silicon more or less ready to do that. A 2 year transition isn’t very long and doesn’t buy them enough time to fail.
Perhaps they’ll transition away from the Mac Pro again. It wasn’t that long ago that they didn’t want to make a new Pro.
Unlike intel Apple will almost certainly avoid releasing cpu roadmaps. The first you’ll usually hear about a new chip is when it hits volume manufacturing.
Anyway. It’ll be interesting to see what transpires.
I don’t think we will need to wait too long before we get a feel for how the land will lie.
Apple also made the same statement about the transition as they did last time; about not being able to make the products they want with their current chip supplier.
It does make you wonder what they’re planning.
Maybe the future of the Mac will look very different than it does today. And maybe that will be a little bit less ‘pro’ too.
Who knows. Maybe the new chips might just be smoking hot. Not in a literal sense. Stranger things have happened.
This might mean you could write wrapper code for a plugin in Swift, instead of Object-C. Obviously Swift isn't suitable for high performance code.
@klownshed - all those things are possible. I can see Apple abandoning the Mac Pro quite easily if they had too. They used to sell other pro stuff like file servers, routers and the like, which they've mostly abandoned now. Their core computer business is laptops, iMacs, iPhones, Apple TVs and iPads. Everything else is a rounding error at this point.
I'd be delighted if Apple do manage to make high end ARM chips btw. I've just been following the electronics business t0o long to think that it's a given, or even that past performance is much of a guide to the future (Oracle and Intel excepted). I really, REALLY, want ARM chips to move into high performance hardware.
Oh, not only can I blame touchscreen, I did! 😂
But in all seriousness, I said that was true for me. When I’m editing in logic I have tons of key commands I use, and easy ways to switch tools. I do love using faders on touchscreen (although I still prefer real faders) and interacting with plugins by touch can be good too, but for editing, it’s just not for me.
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Yes I totally get it’s a different thing - hence my apples and oranges comment - I was just using it to illustrate the point that there’s nothing inherent to RISC that makes high performance impossible.
They certainly seem to be moving away from pro desktop use, there’s very little action or choice in that area aside from the all-in-one iMac or Mini.
With the merging of iOS and OS, looks to me like they’re still focusing all their efforts on the mobile/laptop student/home consumer market, with little thought for pro or business users.