Loopy Pro: Create music, your way.
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Comments
I don't think that would work. We as developers are as locked into Apple's platform as users are. We have nothing to threaten Apple with, because iOS apps cannot easily be ported to other platforms.
The crux of this reality is that the moment a significant portion of developers or users would be able to boycott Apple's platform would be the same moment that they could actually just move anyway, at which point Apple will be forced to offer a better deal to users and developers.
But at that moment Apple might already be in the middle of disrupting the Auto industry so music apps will be the least of Apple's worries.
A few days ago I read an article on palmsounds about the state of the music app community in 2006 (http://www.palmsounds.net/2006/12/thoughts-on-mobile-music-making-in.html). The platform they ran on doesn't exist anymore. And I haven't heard about any of their names before either. And nobody talks about them anymore today. Funnily the apps can still be downloaded, even though the devices aren't sold anymore since almost a decade.
The lesson to be learned here is that it is probably fairly ridiculous to assume that we can change the path of the largest company in the world just because we want a better interaction with our users/customers and better working conditions on the platform we build our stuff upon. Platforms come and go and users decide their faith.
But assuming that Apple listens to some sort of boycott by users or developers seems relatively unrealistic. It's just not in Apple's DNA to listen to democratically formed opinions.
The thing that we can do as developers is educate our users (that's most likely you who is reading this right now) about what's going on and how we think about fixing it. In the short term we might just have to deal with things how they are right now, but medium to long term we're going to need some sort of external method of funding development, so that not both developers and users continue to suffer from Apple's inflexible App Store guidelines.
... eventually, yes. But right now none of the other players can compete with the App Store's convenience and numbers.
@Sebastian re: "... but medium to long term we're going to need some sort of external method of funding development ..."
Patrons! Like Beethoven!
How do you guys feel about http://patreon.com ?
Curious to know how profitable (relatively) iOS apps that have been ported to android have been after charges etc.
Not at all. Unless they're changing their model to freemium.
Errrrr aren't they the guys who got hacked and patrons started get ransom demands?
I didn't hear about that. But then Dropbox once decided it would give access to all of their stuff without passwords to anyone and people are still using it today. sigh
I'd like to state my humble .02 ct concerning the mean corporate Monster Apple. I use Apple products for over 20 years, that is: from long before the hype and the angst, they might eat us all up. From the beginning my experience with Apple (as a small, almost bankrupt thing then) was, that they deliberately installed small improvements with every new incarnation of hardware/software, mostly without putting these up on Billboards, but "under the hood". Now, I am more than happy, they managed to not only keep their head above water, but make REAL money (I also think, they do deserve it), since this means, the setup I am used to have at my disposal, is much more futureproof thus... .
I still can't see that ugly monster, everybody's talking about, rise its head, I still experience a company that strives hard to make better products each season and to perfect its Software more. On the way there surely they don't always do what I would do, sometimes release a much too big iPad in a not really great version (yet) --, but they also ARE NOT ME, they are them. In the long run, they always satisfied me in the end.
I know, it's ten years now, but gentlemen (and -women), ios is still young. Believe me, we're getting there eventually, things are moving, and plans are in place for the next 10 years (at least), plans for good "professional"(what is that, anyways?) products, financed by a gigantic crowd of casual users, yes, that's right, the amateur casual user-masses make this revolution possible, that's why I still say thank you for being able to be part of this... .
(and I do hope, we'll be getting there, while I still am alive, hehe(smiley))
Apologies for the long rant, monologue-end,
cheers, enjoy, t
Patron got hacked, someone went of with all the data, credidkartnumbers, tax number, ...
people are getting emails now demanding 1 bitcoin
they say they gonna publish data if you don't pay ...
it was everywhere in the news
Patron says its a scam and they don't have what they say they have, but who knows ...
http://techcrunch.com/2015/10/05/patreon-hacked-gigabytes-of-data-and-code-leaked/
Doesnt sound to pleasant
Yes hacked:
http://www.heise.de/security/meldung/Patreon-Nutzerdaten-im-Web-Spenden-Mail-Adressen-persoenliche-Nachrichten-2836878.html
But thats not the point, here,
The question is how can we give the devs (who are need to eat), the freedom to do this...
And if you think you wanna spent this to SOMEONE to help them without the high apple tax, yes Kickstarter / crowdfund / patreon Are great ideas how it could work...i like the idea and back/spent a lot in the last time for SOMEONE and SOMETHING, its joy, ....
Yeah, if SOMEONE will spin another web to help these devs who need/want that help
Insta PERKed / BACKed!
Maybe you @Sebastian know SOMEONE who could brings the devs together
;-)
Kickstarter, crowdfund
I don't know if that will work, music soft is to niche
This isn't Maniac Mansion 3
I miss the palmsounds crowd
Was a nice bunch of people
Friday night was freak night
iDonate. A new app that has categories for causes, charities, politicians, websites, artists and app developers. If you could select with one click, enter an amount, 1 time or recurring, and select a big DONATE button and be done (with receipt automagically emailed as proof of your contribution) ... If you're interacting with site code, could require a lot of footwork getting some initial buy in (almost like trying to launch a new platform). But the idea is to make it as easy to donate to causes you support as it is to impulse buy apps from Doug'sList
I still use Patreon and haven't been blackmailed. Of course, if somebody did threaten me unless I paid in BITCOIN I'd laugh and laugh and laugh ... Bitcoin. Snrk. Go ahead, do your worst!
Graham from Recording Revolution recently had a great interview with a guy who has a million YouTube fans, but said what really allowed him to quit his day job were his 1400+ Patreons and their monthly donations.
You know your numbers, @Sebastian - if 1 out of 10 or even 1 out of 20 Audiobus users donated, say $2.00 US a month, could offset some of the Apple Tax sting, possibly?
Just put a big FO "Support Audiobus on Patreon" button on your homepage and at the top of the forum. I realize it might be tough, feeling like you're hitting up paying customers to dig a little deeper, but as long as you're not begging every other thread, the links (and need) should speak for themselves.
I've said it before: I would pay considerably more than I have for music apps, now that I have had time to assess the waters.
The only drawback might be that users won't or can't afford to scarf through the wide variety of apps that the bunch of us have gone through at current prices, but a sense of worth of an app because of its higher price can be a mind trick; and given the power, clever UIs, and wide variety of tools available these investments can do so much for a musician in ways they've never thought of.
I also think that the proliferation of devices that do all these amazing things has a tendency to - for lack of a better term - 'cheapen' the experience generally (present company excluded), insofar as not everybody can own a classic Moog synth to make music with, but just about everybody has some kind of smart gadget. But at the same time the I believe the capabilities of the iOS music realm can and will back up any increase in app prices.
I can't remember which app it was now. but it had an IAP that bought nothing more than sending extra money to the dev.
YES! Have always wondered why there aren't more DETAILED videos BY the App-Devs themselves. It seems we have to depend on reviews to learn much of anything of an app. I would think it would be to the app-creators advantage to show as much as possible about their creations. That said - as a retired programmer, I recall what a PITA writting docs and user-manuals when I could be CODING! :-)
[Snip]
As I see it, the Devs can help themselves alot by releasing proper demo vids etc in order to create the hype. Why should I have to depend on Doug releasing a demo vid before I decide to purchase ? Some Devs could really do more to persuade me to become an instabuyer. Almost drunk, almost off topic, rant over. Sorry.
Good and reasonable discussion going on here.
The only corporate force-multiplier that matters is self-interest and Apple's is/should be that they offer the software. The opportunity actually is for Surface to bring out a fabulous dev-supporting model because they need the software...
USP .of the Surface surely is that they DONT need the software 1zillion Windows programmes run on it.
Perhaps developers need to approach this in an old way.
Like a waitress.
On the bill there is a tips area. If I don't know the server and don't have a relationship with him/her, I give a nice tip. I don't really hit them off any different than other servers when I dine out.
That is, except John Doe. John Doe works at Best Food Place. I have gotten to know John Doe really well. He treats me great. He also gives me a free glass of wine and discounts on my bill. He also slides me a free desert every once and a while. The funny thing is, I end up spending more tipping John Doe for this exceptional service and gratis then I would have otherwise.
Perhaps developers could create for an untraceable "tips" system from the app store.
Developers may take time to develop ancillary app ad-on or apps themselves that could be offered to people of there choice.
Personalizing the process could be done by customers being given tips, inside industry fun facts, IAP's, and project development news. Even straight fundraising appeals if a developer need be.
This would be the equivalent of a non-profit type relationship meets stockholder meets member of private club. It would be the ultimate contradiction to the nameless faceless internet way of paying.
Now, if I were a developer I would also do this. I would set up a secondary shadow app company in which I introduced and maintained my "gratis" app depot. It would be under the umbrella of the app store, yet autonomous from my main bread and butter.
Who knows. Just kind of hit me.
Disagree.
@RustiK the Patreon app and website are already setup to function like you've described. Unfortunately they were hit by some hackers earlier this year so it might be effecting their viability.
I would like something totally independent for each developer.
To avoid that exact issue.
Also - Patreon you need credit card.
I have no digital financial fingerprint. I use cash only - so I would like something inside the ITunes pay structure. I buy gift cards cash.
Another benefit of Apples (30%) is the BEST privacy and security for all of us. Jussayin
Imagine the energy at WWDC 2016 when, directly after displaying whatever monster number they've so-far paid out to developers, they put up a slide that says "And we're going to give you all a 30% raise".
Marketing....
You disagree that the Surface will run Windows Programmes?
Touch is the thing. Windows has roughly 8 fully fledged DAWs that work with touch.
But:
Except for Stagelight (which is a marvel, and is rumored to be coming to iOS) at $10 buy in, they're all priced like their cousins in OSX, in the hundreds of dollars.
The zillions of VST that these DAWs host are workable for me with touch but are generally not scaled or designed for touch. (D16 group is one exception) Prices here range from free to $500+. The free stuff is amazing in many cases, and in many cases out class what's available in iOS, but you need a host (some synths run standalone but mostly not, so back to that handful of DAWs.)
What's not really there for Surface is all the other kinds of apps that iOS has, the sketchpads, groove boxes, mini workstations, and instruments that can stand on their own.
its tricky because a couple of these Surface-ready DAWS of course do everything that iOS music can (not to mention things many iOS can't, like host Omnisphere 2). These DAWs are the sum in a sense of my entire iPad. This is true of both Bitwig and Usine Hollyhock, which are not only touch ready but have touch at their root. But again, $...and accessibility. iOS music is accessible like nothing else. I can literally hand Thumbjam, or TC-11, even Launchpad or LP-5 to one of my 3rd grade (exceptional needs) students and she'll be jamming in 2 shakes of a lambs tail (as mom used to say).
Reading thru this very interesting conversation, I can't help but come back to this information from Sebastian. If this is true, then Apple made roughly $3,000,000,000 from AppStore sales in a year. How much of that are they putting back to improving the AppStore? What is best business practice? 10%? I'm guessing Apple did not invest $300 million in the AppStore in 2015, who knows.
I don't care how much of a cut Apple takes as long as they use it to make things great for their customers (the devs! not only the consumers)
All that to say, From what they are making on it, the AppStore should be improving at the same rate that sales are increasing, no? Otherwise, AppStore is in a trend of decline.
[disclaimer: largely uninformed ideas here, more than happy to be corrected]