The App Economy

Will

It remains a marvel to me that the App Store itself is so successful while sucking rotten eggs with such vigor.

[Deleted User]

@syrupcore

******And we're going to give you all a fifty percent raise**.****

Hmtx

Exactly, because "the AppStore" isn't a success, necessarily. The apps are the success (in spite of the AppStore mess) and Apple needs to take better care of the people dressing up Apple's pig to make it look so lovely! ;-b

Will

Moar numbers.

Looks like Apple announced $30 Billion paid out to developers at WWDC 2015 (in total, not for 2014). That puts their take at a little under $13 Billion so far.

For 2014 it was $10 Billion paid out to developers which puts Apple's take at ~$4.2 Billion. Hardly chump change but according to their annual report, they made $182.7 Billion in revenue 2014. That puts it it at about 2.3% of revenue. I doubt stock holders would be stoked to see them wipe out 2.3% of their revenue but I reckon the case could be made.

JohnnyGoodyear

@Littlewoodg said:

I can literally hand Thumbjam, or TC-11, even Launchpad or LP-5 to one of my 3rd grade (exceptional needs) students and she'll be jamming in 2 shakes of a lambs tail (as mom used to say).

I think my tail is very similar as regards a desire or need for easy shaking. I hope and expect things to change/develop, I just don't feel it has (for me) sufficiently yet.

johnfromberkeley

@RedSkyLullaby said:
Another good idea I know of only one developer that has done is the way of selling multiple instances of an effect app by having different version with various upgrade to full version options. AD480 I believe you can potentially have 3 full versions useable at same time by upgrading free version and basic versions and buying full version

Now, that's a lot of reverb!

[Deleted User]

I'm afraid there's not much we (buyers) and the developers can do. One thing that may help is ignoring the Mac app store. I always buy directly from the developers if there's such an option. Developers get more money and I get less problems - it's a win-win situation. The recent problem with the Mac app store, when 2/3 of the apps I bought stopped working, made me really angry. It took them almost a week to fix that and a couple of those apps still crash on start For example, Audulus is still not working and I can't re-download it from the store (some say it might fix the problem) because its developer pulled it from the mac app store a month ago. So, you can't download you purchase if it's not in the app store anymore, you can't save the installation file for backup purposes, you can't revert to the previous version (without using Time Machine). How stupid is that?

I really hope if developers continue leaving the mac app store, Apple will finally notice that and start improving it. And, since the ios and mac app stores have a lot in common, I hope we'll see some of the changes coming to the ios app store as well

Rich303

@yug said:
I'm afraid there's not much we (buyers) and the developers can do. One thing that may help is ignoring the Mac app store. I always buy directly from the developers if there's such an option. Developers get more money and I get less problems - it's a win-win situation. The recent problem with the Mac app store, when 2/3 of the apps I bought stopped working, made me really angry. It took them almost a week to fix that and a couple of those apps still crash on start For example, Audulus is still not working and I can't re-download it from the store (some say it might fix the problem) because its developer pulled it from the mac app store a month ago. So, you can't download you purchase if it's not in the app store anymore, you can't save the installation file for backup purposes, you can't revert to the previous version (without using Time Machine). How stupid is that?

I really hope if developers continue leaving the mac app store, Apple will finally notice that and start improving it. And, since the ios and mac app stores have a lot in common, I hope we'll see some of the changes coming to the ios app store as well

I doubt boycotting the Mac App Store would make a difference. There aint shit in there compared to the iOS App Store.

obiwahnkentobi

@RustiK said:

Can I please interject?

"30% for nothing"

I'm actually laughing to myself at this moment.

Do people understand the millions of jobs and income that Apple is allowing to form and grow throughout the world?

And they're getting neatly compensated for that by having turned iDevices into a hardware subscription model that. Apple should not be charging a cut from developers (or users) for the apps that are the main reason their devices get sold.

I've ranted about this before.

https://storify.com/dittsn/indy-developers-have-an-app-store-problem

"There are more than 11 million third party developers creating software/apps for Apple’s platforms. That’s more people than Sweden. Or to rephrase it: Apple has a a workforce of the size of a European country that it not only doesn’t pay, but instead charges 30%."

not only this, a dev. have to pay for the DEV Account, @Sebastian how much?

nice perspective to realize the dimension Sebastian
youre absolute right!!!

audiblevideo

Apples Problems that are pushed onto developers:

1. the app store model is based on selling 99c apps and lots of them to "push" a phone that now owns the majority of the market and sells with every new model released - the 99c model should be retired -- maybe a professional designation is in order, but that's asking too much since Apple can barely handle getting apps approved.

2. the app store promoting of apps sucks because it also feeds this model. People "needed" to get their apps noticed, so free versions, renamed versions, closely named apps, misleading descriptions remain. How do you get noticed amongst the chaff?

3. the apps store rating system sucks. It can discourage real developers from maintaining their apps (IMHOP) because how are they going to claw back from a 2 star rating because "junior" couldn't figure out what MIDI does.

4. os feature/bloat and code change ( and form factor proliferation): How many different sizes and os versions are developers expected to support? How does doing so affect their bottom line in support costs and customer service. See #3.

5.all the above "can" lead to promotional sales as a means of gaining revenue, getting new users, reversing bad ratings. I'm all in for sales or bundles -- but if my app goes unsupported or is orphaned because of the devs lack of funds or time, it does me no good.

I think we are all in a sense invested at this point in iOS music making both as developers and users. Is being a patron a solution?

I remember the Electrify Next dev. pumping his new version. He put out a pre-release. Promised improvements. Gathered payments from unfinished software, and bounced. I don't know if could blame him... or not. So whatever system of patronage it is it should be more formalized.

How does apple handle "subscriptions" for magazine apps? I would pay for a yearly subscription if it meant some sort of "guarantee" of at least ios version migration. Otherwise I think we are stuck with a versioning system in which at each "major" release we pay for the app again, much like Beatmaker (1, 2, and the forthcoming 3) and Auria.

How much does this clutter the app store or confuse buyers? I have no idea. How long can you keep an app on the store when the last ios it ran on was 2 versions ago?

I think there is a willingness to pay for reasonable pricing for reasonable features, unfortunately we've been spoilt. I'll say in closing having a touchscreen gyroscopic interface with reasonable connectivity to other general computing devices is a blessing and a place to innovate, and a place for ALL of us to be rewarded IF we can iron out the bugs on all THREE sides.

-- Peace

Munibeast

How about this: Apple should pay devs for keeping their apps compatible with the newest iOS. That would get close to a guarantee that our investments will not be worthless in 2 or 3 years.

BiancaNeve

Yes we have been spoilt But I bet I would have saved money overall if apps were more expensive.

RUST( i )K

@Munibeast said:
How about this: Apple should pay devs for keeping their apps compatible with the newest iOS. That would get close to a guarantee that our investments will not be worthless in 2 or 3 years.

Or at least a contract of sorts with minimal and max time frames for updates and advanced notices with certain windows exclusions.

Once again this would involve organization by developers. Much akin to a union or trade group.

Its about leverage. Not easy against something as massive and powerful as Apple.

raz

Yeah, I think these suggestions aren't addressing the root of the problem. iOS developers don't have customers, Apple has customers.

And Apple allows those iOS developers to exist and make money as contractors, developing and selling software for Apple. It's a pretty good deal for them, being able to advertise all those apps for 0.99 $€£¥.

But, when the boss man has all the power, contractors aren't treated so nicely. Still, having access to good hardware & tools plus a market to sell to can make many enter into such a subservient relationship. Heck, almost happened to me, bought the dev account and all.

BiancaNeve

As another stray thought, Apple aren't always making 30% anyway. Discounts to iTunes card sellers (eBay and tesco for example frequently have them 20% off) and referral payments ( what ever they are called) to sites like here must eat into that 30%.

lovadamusic

@animal said:
I'd like to state my humble .02 ct concerning the mean corporate Monster Apple. I use Apple products for over 20 years, that is: from long before the hype and the angst, they might eat us all up. From the beginning my experience with Apple (as a small, almost bankrupt thing then) was, that they deliberately installed small improvements with every new incarnation of hardware/software, mostly without putting these up on Billboards, but "under the hood". Now, I am more than happy, they managed to not only keep their head above water, but make REAL money (I also think, they do deserve it), since this means, the setup I am used to have at my disposal, is much more futureproof thus... .

I still can't see that ugly monster, everybody's talking about, rise its head, I still experience a company that strives hard to make better products each season and to perfect its Software more. On the way there surely they don't always do what I would do, sometimes release a much too big iPad in a not really great version (yet) --, but they also ARE NOT ME, they are them. In the long run, they always satisfied me in the end.

I know, it's ten years now, but gentlemen (and -women), ios is still young. Believe me, we're getting there eventually, things are moving, and plans are in place for the next 10 years (at least), plans for good "professional"(what is that, anyways?) products, financed by a gigantic crowd of casual users, yes, that's right, the amateur casual user-masses make this revolution possible, that's why I still say thank you for being able to be part of this... .

(and I do hope, we'll be getting there, while I still am alive, hehe(smiley))

Apologies for the long rant, monologue-end,
cheers, enjoy, t

I hope you're right. We could argue about the benefits and evils of a corporation like Apple, characterize them as a Monster or not, but that's not really the point for me here. Apple has the right to do whatever is legal, and if they make more money, then that's the bottom line for them. They don't have to care about everyone, and to be as successful as they can be, they might not be able to care about everyone. They don't even have to be upfront or completely honest if they can get away with it---and of course, they can.

The question here is whether we developers and end users are prospering and happy. Apparently, some are, some not, some in the middle. But how happy are we going to be? If it's just a matter of trusting that because Apple is so successful and has provided us with some great tools the future is bright, then we can just sit back and wait for better days. I think this thread highlights some of the reasons why we more demanding music folks aren't so confident. Some of us see kind of a mess, actually, and little effort on Apple's part to reassure us. Is there anything we can do? I don't know.

If years from now, Apple has kept me on board, wanting to produce music on their devices, then I'll be happy. Right now, I'm not as confident as I'd like to be.

Sebastian

@gsm909 said:

@RustiK said:

Apple never had to let anyone else even sell apps.
Thank God for the profit that has motivated APPLE to keep innovating for the good of all of our lives.

In a normal capitalist society, competition drives the pricing and marketplace. Apple have excluded any competition and cornered the market.

@Sebastian said:

And they're getting neatly compensated for that by having turned iDevices into a hardware subscription model that. Apple should not be charging a cut from developers (or users) for the apps that are the main reason their devices get sold.

Utter Bastards aren't they.

1) Remind me of what a 'normal' capitalist society is again. In times of negative interest rates as a means to keep deflation from happening while more and more money is injected into big banks that don't invest into anything other than financial products, which then are supposed to create positive effects that 'trickle down'... I'm having a really hard time to figure out what 'normal' is anymore.

2) They're not bastards, they're making a provably bad decision from a capitalist point of view. Actually from everyone's point of view, except maybe their competition.