OT: Which synth for £300

AndyPlankton

@syrupcore said:
It's a good point. The Korg slim keys are very very playable as a keyboard player with big hands. I didn't mean to suggest otherwise.

The layout is intriguing and does make some sense from a guitar player point of view...when playing in E or G I often get to the high end of a 2 Oct keyboard and want just one more note.....is it confusing having E at the bottom instead of C ?

Will

Not really confusing, no. Just a little odd after a gajillion years of C-C.

AndyPlankton

@syrupcore said:
Not really confusing, no. Just a little odd after a gajillion years of C-C.

Do you get used to it quite quick ? I would imagine swapping between 2 keyboards during a performance could be interesting

Will

Nah, it's transparent that way. It still looks like a keyboard so a C# is a C# is a C#. I guess if you have a bunch of songs in a set where you hit the low C and your brain starts to think 'go far left' instead of 'play the low C' it could be weird.

Favorite new thing (to me) about it: you can transpose the sequencer's base note to the keyboard. Well, that part I knew. What I didn't put together until tonight is that if you record a sequence with the same note over and over all of the motion sequencing goes on as recorded but the notes are entirely dependent on what you play (vs being locked into a sequence of notes). Adding ties to the sequence can make it a continuous notes. I does restart the sequence with each note on (the clock isn't independent). So if you record a filter sweep as a motion sequence into the first few steps each key down will trigger that sweep.

You can also use the latch/transpose thing via MIDI. Means you can set up a sequence and then use something like the beatstep (or a sequencing app) to send it new root notes at fixed times. Handy if the control sequencer has clock divisions.

I dunno if this is a bug or just lame: you have to re-engage the latch whenever you stop/start the remote clock/transpose source. Not a big deal but a little annoying.

Also, since the clock isn't independent, when transposing the sequence you have take care to hit the note on the one when you're playing with other instruments like a drum machine. The monologue handles MIDI clock like a champ but the 16 steps start when you hit a key. If you hit the key a second late, each of the steps of the sequence will come out at the right tempo, just a second late. Would be a great update to make the keyboard more like a gate instead of a trigger, if that makes sense.

Sorry, long late night monologue babble! I'm smitten.

AndyPlankton

@syrupcore said:
Nah, it's transparent that way. It still looks like a keyboard so a C# is a C# is a C#. I guess if you have a bunch of songs in a set where you hit the low C and your brain starts to think 'go far left' instead of 'play the low C' it could be weird.

Yeah I can see that, I thought It might be like, "Hey! someone switched my black keys around"

Favorite new thing (to me) about it: you can transpose the sequencer's base note to the keyboard. Well, that part I knew. What I didn't put together until tonight is that if you record a sequence with the same note over and over all of the motion sequencing goes on as recorded but the notes are entirely dependent on what you play (vs being locked into a sequence of notes). Adding ties to the sequence can make it a continuous notes. I does restart the sequence with each note on (the clock isn't independent). So if you record a filter sweep as a motion sequence into the first few steps each key down will trigger that sweep.

>

Can you also have it so that note on DOESN'T retrigger the sequence?

You can also use the latch/transpose thing via MIDI. Means you can set up a sequence and then use something like the beatstep (or a sequencing app) to send it new root notes at fixed times. Handy if the control sequencer has clock divisions.

Beatstep does this, but it needs a continuous inbound note...if it isn't getting a note it plays back in programmed key, Is this the same ?

I dunno if this is a bug or just lame: you have to re-engage the latch whenever you stop/start the remote clock/transpose source. Not a big deal but a little annoying.

Also, since the clock isn't independent, when transposing the sequence you have take care to hit the note on the one when you're playing with other instruments like a drum machine. The monologue handles MIDI clock like a champ but the 16 steps start when you hit a key. If you hit the key a second late, each of the steps of the sequence will come out at the right tempo, just a second late. Would be a great update to make the keyboard more like a gate instead of a trigger, if that makes sense.

>

I guess this is what I meant by having it not retrigger the sequence but just transpose from its current position. Both options would be nice.

Sorry, long late night monologue babble! I'm smitten.

Been there myself

Will

Can you also have it so that note on DOESN'T retrigger the sequence?

Yes. If you look at the button in the top right, that turns the keyboard->sequence control on an off. Incoming notes (from the keyboard or externally) take priority over any recorded notes.

Beatstep does this, but it needs a continuous inbound note...if it isn't getting a note it plays back in programmed key, Is this the same ?

Nope. If you double tap that same button, incoming notes (from the keyboard or externally) 'latch' the transposition. Last night I programmed in a two note octave bounce sequence. On the BSP I set the pattern to 1/4 time and was able to get 4 bars worth of changes by triggering single notes here and there along its 16 steps. MidiSTEPS or midiSequencer would also work for this.

Also means if you don't have the latch/transpose on, you can have a sequence doing its thing and still send in notes from the BSP. I was playing with a higher melody sequence setup in the Monologue that I set to 14 steps while sending it a bass note every 1/2 measure. The incoming notes always take priority so it sounded 'on' while the melody thing floated around it since it didn't restart at the same place each time.

For what it's worth, the brutes will do most of this stuff too. There's a firmware trick to give the Minibrute the same sequencer as the Micro. Far fewer sequence memories (and no step display and...) but they can have 64 step (or more?) sequences.

I guess this is what I meant by having it not retrigger the sequence but just transpose from its current position. Both options would be nice.

Indeed. Of course, from the BSP it's solid as a rock. And when I'm paying attention, its totally fine. Just have to pay attention. The internal sequencer can resolve to 1/16, 1/8, 1/4, 1/2, and whole note step resolutions. I haven't experimented with it yet but the current 'option' should allow for interesting rhythms/changes by intentionally starting off the beat.

AndyPlankton

@syrupcore said:

Can you also have it so that note on DOESN'T retrigger the sequence?

Yes. If you look at the button in the top right, that turns the keyboard->sequence control on an off. Incoming notes (from the keyboard or externally) take priority over any recorded notes.

Good

Beatstep does this, but it needs a continuous inbound note...if it isn't getting a note it plays back in programmed key, Is this the same ?

Nope. If you double tap that same button, incoming notes (from the keyboard or externally) 'latch' the transposition. Last night I programmed in a two note octave bounce sequence. On the BSP I set the pattern to 1/4 time and was able to get 4 bars worth of changes by triggering single notes here and there along its 16 steps. MidiSTEPS or midiSequencer would also work for this.

That sounds useful

Also means if you don't have the latch/transpose on, you can have a sequence doing its thing and still send in notes from the BSP. I was playing with a higher melody sequence setup in the Monologue that I set to 14 steps while sending it a bass note every 1/2 measure. The incoming notes always take priority so it sounded 'on' while the melody thing floated around it since it didn't restart at the same place each time.

Yeah I do this on the Circuit

For what it's worth, the brutes will do most of this stuff too. There's a firmware trick to give the Minibrute the same sequencer as the Micro. Far fewer sequence memories (and no step display and...) but they can have 64 step (or more?) sequences.

>

I think I have given up on the idea of a brute now, the next to useless keys is putting me of the Micro, and the Mini didn't appeal to me in the same way as the micro did.

I guess this is what I meant by having it not retrigger the sequence but just transpose from its current position. Both options would be nice.

Indeed. Of course, from the BSP it's solid as a rock. And when I'm paying attention, its totally fine. Just have to pay attention. The internal sequencer can resolve to 1/16, 1/8, 1/4, 1/2, and whole note step resolutions. I haven't experimented with it yet but the current 'option' should allow for interesting rhythms/changes by intentionally starting off the beat.

Always nice to have an option

ChrisG

@syrupcore said:
It's a good point. The Korg slim keys are very very playable as a keyboard player with big hands. I didn't mean to suggest otherwise.

I know:-) I saw the words mini & slim keys and just started writing a few random thoughts on all that.

I also wanna clarify what I meant when I said being able to play keys somewhat decent-ish, I am trash at playing keys, but if you can play the Stranger Things theme (I think that's a good example, as it does'nt get that much simpler), then there you go. :-)

stemshade

How does the monologue work as a controller? Can you change knob midi out cc's?

robosardine

@anickt said:

@AndyPlankton said:

@u0421793 said:
I would say that the microbrute, which I'm fascinated by in some way because of the modulatable waveshaping capability, is the sort of thing that should be recommended if someone was to say they were thinking about buying a pair of Volcas. It costs about that much, and I think it'd be a better buy. In your case, you're doing it the other way and adding a smaller component to a larger wider set, and in that case I'd suggest the microbrute would remove value from that larger set (and remove that amount of money that could have been put toward a Deepmind later).

Rather strangely my first thought when given my budget was volcas.......Bass, FM and possible keys.......then I thought that what I was actually missing wasn't really a particular type of sound but playability........hence the search for a single synth......Deepmind will not be affordable unfortunately unless something magical happens on the finance front.

I never thought the Volcas sounded good. I had the bass and keys. I'd go for monologue or minilogue over them any day.

Absolutely agree. I have one on order partly for that reason- I had them and sold them.. I was just about to order a Monotribe from eBay when I heard about the Monologue. I am looking on it as a bigger brother type thing of the Monotribe..... sadly missing the ribbon gate controller.

anickt

@robosardine said:

@anickt said:

@AndyPlankton said:

@u0421793 said:
I would say that the microbrute, which I'm fascinated by in some way because of the modulatable waveshaping capability, is the sort of thing that should be recommended if someone was to say they were thinking about buying a pair of Volcas. It costs about that much, and I think it'd be a better buy. In your case, you're doing it the other way and adding a smaller component to a larger wider set, and in that case I'd suggest the microbrute would remove value from that larger set (and remove that amount of money that could have been put toward a Deepmind later).

Rather strangely my first thought when given my budget was volcas.......Bass, FM and possible keys.......then I thought that what I was actually missing wasn't really a particular type of sound but playability........hence the search for a single synth......Deepmind will not be affordable unfortunately unless something magical happens on the finance front.

I never thought the Volcas sounded good. I had the bass and keys. I'd go for monologue or minilogue over them any day.

Absolutely agree. I have one on order partly for that reason- I had them and sold them.. I was just about to order a Monotribe from eBay when I heard about the Monologue. I am looking on it as a bigger brother type thing of the Monotribe..... sadly missing the ribbon gate controller.

I think you will enjoy the Monologue. I ordered one from Sweetwater with 4 years interest free. Hard to let that go.

ChrisG

@5pinlink said:

@ChrisG said:
People who moan about slim keys, they're the first to use the "chord" button on a synth anyways.

That is a little unfair, i am a fat man, slim keys are a little hard to hit with my cholesterol fingers, and i don't even know what a chord is ?

My father has these fingers you might typically see on an overweight person, baby hands or whatever people call it, and I inherited his fingers. And my fingers are relatively short as well. So piano fingers I do not have. It kinda sucks as I'm not reaching as far as I'd like sometimes, on normal keys. I do get by, but barely so. I'd love a 61 slim keys controller from korg, with the exact same keybed as the Minilogue, albeit with aftertouch as well.

Will

@vpich said:
How does the monologue work as a controller? Can you change knob midi out cc's?

Not possible. You'd need to use something like MIDIFlow.

stemshade

@syrupcore said:

@vpich said:
How does the monologue work as a controller? Can you change knob midi out cc's?

Not possible. You'd need to use something like MIDIFlow.

Thanks

AndyPlankton

@u0421793 said:

@AndyPlankton said:

@u0421793 said:
What about a secondhand Yamaha Reface CX and using it mostly as a controller?

Hmmm, interesting suggestion, what I've heard sounds nice, but not sure about the short sliders, id be interested in having a go on one.

I've heard the sliders on the CS (I meant CS not CX) transmit live as midi control, too.

I'm still deliberating on what to get, BassStation is my first choice for full size analog mono, but the reface range has really got my interest, I would happily own and play all 4 if I had the cash....
I like the fact that they keys are 3 octave, they sound really nice even if the controls initially seem limited, the yc sounds awesome and I always turn to organs for my initial keys, the dx and cs have the 2000 note phrase sequencer , all 4 can save presets to iPad.
If I had the yc I would have hardware versions of my usual base instruments, drums, bass, organ and guitar. Meaning if the iPad died for some reason I could still make tunes, although not as easily.

Vip8888

So Monologue is off the list? Tempted to get one of those myself (damn you for planting that thought in my mind ), so would be curious to hear why if that's the case.

AndyPlankton

@Vip8888 said:
So Monologue is off the list? Tempted to get one of those myself (damn you for planting that thought in my mind ), so would be curious to hear why if that's the case.

It was a close run thing but the deciding factors were -

• BassStation has 2 LFO's and 2 Env whereas the Monologue has 1 of each....
• BassStation has sub oscillator
• BassStation has more options for the filter
• BassStation has pre and post filter overdrive
• BassStation has 64 user memories, Monologue has 20
• BassStation has aftertouch

Where the monologue came out on top was the sequencer and motion sequencing...the sequencer has the step buttons which the BassStation doesn't. If you have volca's (which I don't) then the monologue has an added benefit of being the bridge between MIDI and Audiosync that the volca's use.

Matthew

I like my Minilogue a lot. It's simple enough for me to almost know what I'm doing.

AndyPlankton

@Matthew said:
I like my Minilogue a lot. It's simple enough for me to almost know what I'm doing.

Yeah, the Minilogue would be a different proposition as it is poly...but it falls way outside of my budget

Jocphone

I think, after all this time, maybe @u0421793 got it about right. Don't buy anything. If you're deliberating this much then maybe you don't need anything. Gate something you do need instead, or something else that excites you so much it's just a 'Fuck yeah!' when you think of it.

knewspeak

@Jocphone said:
I think, after all this time, maybe @u0421793 got it about right. Don't buy anything. If you're deliberating this much then maybe you don't need anything. Gate something you do need instead, or something else that excites you so much it's just a 'Fuck yeah!' when you think of it.

This is my philosophy, but, unfortunately, I'm easily excited.

AndyPlankton

@Jocphone said:
I think, after all this time, maybe @u0421793 got it about right. Don't buy anything. If you're deliberating this much then maybe you don't need anything. Gate something you do need instead, or something else that excites you so much it's just a 'Fuck yeah!' when you think of it.

@knewspeak said:
This is my philosophy, but, unfortunately, I'm easily excited.

I get that Fuck Yeah! from everything
I still keep watching vids of different kit LOL...the sound that gave me the biggest 'twinge' was the Reface YC, I use organs a lot....Galileo is great, but as it is IAA it does occasionally go AWOL and ghosts too.

The feature that I got the biggest buzz from was the Phrase Looper on the Reface DX and CS...2000 notes

Does anyone know if the reface's Phrase Looper outputs to MIDI ? Or is it internal sound engine only ? And can it be recprded from MIDI In or just the keyboard ?
The pattern is lost once you switch off, so being able to record/playback the MIDI gives a way of saving it.

[Deleted User]

@AndyPlankton

While I know how lovely it is to buy a new piece of kit, I still can't help wondering if you are buying something as you have £300.

I wonder if this is the right move, or if others have suggested, keep the money away (or even add to it), until you have something that you really have to buy.

My reasoning is this:
You have an iPad and plenty of great synth apps.
You have the controllers to trigger loops and such.
You have separate processing for your guitar.
You have your separate hardware device running too.
You have a separate mini keyboard controller.

I get why a separate hardware device is a great addition.
I just think that running a synth for lead off your iPad with the loops would not be an issue for your iPad.
To my mind, I would do this until you could afford something that really changes your setup.

Does a stand alone mono synth (either analog or digital) offer you much above and beyond what you can already do with a USB hub and the keyboard controller? You can already just take it about and use it separate to the rest of your gear.

My advise (and I probably would not follow it myself lol) is to save up until you have enough for something that really hits the need for analog hardware. Something like that new one voice Dave Smith / Pioneer Toriaz or some other stand alone analog device that has patch cabling and is the start of some modular madness.

Just my opinion. Sure you will be happy with whatever you decide

Will

One good thing about both the BS2 and the monologue is that their used prices are pretty steady. You should be able to get most of your money back if you decide to move on. 100% in the case of the BS2 and ~85% of the monologue (presuming you buy it new).

u0421793

You've seen musictrackjp's reface vids, yes, of course you must've, silly question.

AndyPlankton

@Fruitbat1919 said:

Wahey, Dude !

From a studio perspective I get what you are saying, and you're right, I can do everything I want using what i've already got.

I am thinking from a live perspective......and live in different scenarios...having a hardware noisemaker with keys means I could use just that and the circuit......or if it has a long enough sequence recorder....use the guitar as well....the iPad is really just there live for sample loop playback.

AndyPlankton

@syrupcore said:
One good thing about both the BS2 and the monologue is that their used prices are pretty steady. You should be able to get most of your money back if you decide to move on. 100% in the case of the BS2 and ~85% of the monologue (presuming you buy it new).

Yes I have seen this, the secondhand prices aren't far from the current new prices.

AndyPlankton

@u0421793 said:
You've seen musictrackjp's reface vids, yes, of course you must've, silly question.

Errr. no... will be watching them tonight though Cheers for the tip.

u0421793

@AndyPlankton said:

@u0421793 said:
You've seen musictrackjp's reface vids, yes, of course you must've, silly question.

Errr. no... will be watching them tonight though Cheers for the tip.

Head start:

amarok

I've been very happy with my Novation MiniNova... great sounds, versatile & friendly interface, with arpeggiator & vocoder too.