Retronyms Teases “ACPY4”

brambos

@MonzoPro said:

@brambos said:

Here's a nice experiment. Whenever a new playful app gets released and discussed here and the developer is invited to join the conversation (which is, by the way, an awesome aspect of this group!) look at what happens next: you'll see a barrage of posts like "Hey dude, awesome new app... I'm having so much fun. When can we expect you to add [connectivity feature XYZ]?". Essentially, you're all telling the developer to stop his creative journey and start focusing on technical features instead. It takes a lot of stubbornness and a strong vision in a developer to not give in and stick with his original vision and where he intended to let the app grow...

I think to be fair, and the Samplebot thread is a good example, most of the regulars on here are usually highly appreciative of a devs involvement, and feature suggestions are put forward as genuine attempts at helping the product evolve. It does get messy when the basics (as they are now) are missed out, but I've seen a lot of respect (Samplebot thread again) shown for the original vision, and generally feature requests are suggested good-naturedly. Usually.

Just to be clear: I fully agree. Samplebot (and e.g. KRFT) are excellent examples! And it’s not the user’s responsibility to be mindful of the designer’s/developer’s perspective. It’s actually often very healthy to have these dynamics (“there’s no heat without friction”).

I’m just giving one possible explanation for some of the developments and changes we’re seeing.

LucidMusicInc

Does ACP4 help me with longboarding?

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

[Deleted User]

@brambos said:

@MonzoPro said:

@brambos said:

Here's a nice experiment. Whenever a new playful app gets released and discussed here and the developer is invited to join the conversation (which is, by the way, an awesome aspect of this group!) look at what happens next: you'll see a barrage of posts like "Hey dude, awesome new app... I'm having so much fun. When can we expect you to add [connectivity feature XYZ]?". Essentially, you're all telling the developer to stop his creative journey and start focusing on technical features instead. It takes a lot of stubbornness and a strong vision in a developer to not give in and stick with his original vision and where he intended to let the app grow...

I think to be fair, and the Samplebot thread is a good example, most of the regulars on here are usually highly appreciative of a devs involvement, and feature suggestions are put forward as genuine attempts at helping the product evolve. It does get messy when the basics (as they are now) are missed out, but I've seen a lot of respect (Samplebot thread again) shown for the original vision, and generally feature requests are suggested good-naturedly. Usually.

Just to be clear: I fully agree. Samplebot (and e.g. KRFT) are excellent examples! And it’s not the user’s responsibility to be mindful of the designer’s/developer’s perspective. It’s actually often very healthy to have these dynamics (“there’s no heat without friction”).

I’m just giving one possible explanation for some of the developments and changes we’re seeing.

No I fully agree with the other stuff in your post, and it gives a useful perspective on the challenges devs face.

Just wanted you to know most of us here appreciate your (and others) input, and the opportunity to maybe make great apps even better

kobamoto

@brambos said:

@kobamoto said:
...Seems like direction wise things were already creative and inspirational and then everybody started to miss the daws they ran away from. I understand your point but my point is the platform is already running away from the tc-11's, ikaossilators, samplrs, and field scapers. ...

I don't want to disparage anyone else workflow though and I'm happy for those who enjoy the current trajectory I just wish the primary ethos for iOS hadn't been/ doesn't get left behind because I see less and less of what made people excited about iOS in the first place and it just seems kind of weird if we have to go in the opposite direction to encourage good developers to get involved in bringing us back to the initial experience.

Don't get me wrong. I know exactly what you mean, and the types of apps you're referring to. But keep in mind that those kinds of apps thrived in an iOS era when everything was much simpler and much more basic. Connectivity meant: "it has Audiobus".

These days, people demand 'mature' desktop-grade features, full configurable MIDI implementation, stem exports into their fave DAWs, several syncing options. Support for bigger Pro screens, but also universal/iPhone support without losing a single feature. Export and sharing, but definitely not through iTunes. "If it doesn't have Link, I'm not interested", "If it doesn't support AU, I'll pass", "If it has a sequencer it must also have MIDI out so I can use it drive every other app under the sun", "Where's the MIDI learn?", "Why don't you support program change?", "I need a special button for Dropbox export", "Why can't I import my own samples? How hard can it be?", "What? No 4x oversampled filter models?".

You can't have your cake and eat it too... You want to go back to a simpler, more experimental age when there was a spirit of frivolous exploration, but with all the serious pro features of today's apps.

Here's a nice experiment. Whenever a new playful app gets released and discussed here and the developer is invited to join the conversation (which is, by the way, an awesome aspect of this group!) look at what happens next: you'll see a barrage of posts like "Hey dude, awesome new app... I'm having so much fun. When can we expect you to add [connectivity feature XYZ]?". Essentially, you're all telling the developer to stop his creative journey and start focusing on technical features instead. It takes a lot of stubbornness and a strong vision in a developer to not give in and stick with his original vision and where he intended to let the app grow...

I totally get this too.... can't disagree with any of it, but outside of instrument plugins which is great for Aus if you want to place them in a daw.... there are very few krft, Igor vasilev, or werkbench type apps coming online these days
and as far as not being able to have your cake and eat it too , if we are going to have to live in that world then at least a synth or rompler app should have both midi in and out (don't worry I know I'm digressing lol).... Hey Bram if nothing else thanks for sobering me up

kobamoto

@MonzoPro said:

@brambos said:

Here's a nice experiment. Whenever a new playful app gets released and discussed here and the developer is invited to join the conversation (which is, by the way, an awesome aspect of this group!) look at what happens next: you'll see a barrage of posts like "Hey dude, awesome new app... I'm having so much fun. When can we expect you to add [connectivity feature XYZ]?". Essentially, you're all telling the developer to stop his creative journey and start focusing on technical features instead. It takes a lot of stubbornness and a strong vision in a developer to not give in and stick with his original vision and where he intended to let the app grow...

I think to be fair, and the Samplebot thread is a good example, most of the regulars on here are usually highly appreciative of a devs involvement, and feature suggestions are put forward as genuine attempts at helping the product evolve. It does get messy when the basics (as they are now) are missed out, but I've seen a lot of respect (Samplebot thread again) shown for the original vision, and generally feature requests are suggested good-naturedly. Usually.

this is true too

kobamoto

@Max23 said:
The usual list of ish you want to have in a standalone app got pretty long over time ...
and it gets longer now there is mpe, microtonal stuff, it’s the new fetish club

but at the same time I feel like the stand alone apps hold their value better, and feel more like an instrument and make it so that you wanna keep certain apps on older devices cause they are still useful....

btw didn't mean to contribute to derailing your thread, just got in where I fit in.... so what's the consensus on the acp is it good or bad?

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

realdavidai

iOS DAW + AU all the way for me.

Full Screen AU and a good live host would solve a lot of issues

IAA should be abandoned
Link seems very temporary IMO

lukesleepwalker

@realdavidai said:
Link seems very temporary IMO

Can you explain why?

oat_phipps

Quote

Here's a nice experiment. Whenever a new playful app gets released and discussed here and the developer is invited to join the conversation (which is, by the way, an awesome aspect of this group!) look at what happens next: you'll see a barrage of posts like "Hey dude, awesome new app... I'm having so much fun. When can we expect you to add [connectivity feature XYZ]?". Essentially, you're all telling the developer to stop his creative journey and start focusing on technical features instead. It takes a lot of stubbornness and a strong vision in a developer to not give in and stick with his original vision and where he intended to let the app grow...

---

This is the only glaring negative of this forum. I feel crappy for all the devs (and it usually ends up being ALL of them) who've just released something and then don't get any feedback on what's actually there in the app, just (sometimes way-too pushy) suggestions and requests for more stuff, all within 10 minutes of release.

djjuniorpops

@realdavidai said:
iOS DAW + AU all the way for me.

Full Screen AU and a good live host would solve a lot of issues

IAA should be abandoned
Link seems very temporary IMO

I totally agree IAA should be no more, thats why I am not purchasing if it does not have AU support.

kobamoto

I'm not sure it has to be that complicated.... the dev develops, the userbase pays $ and if the dev included a roadmap or stated there would be no more added to the app then most of the people I see on this forum would be fine with that....

if the dev is open to suggestions then there are quite a lot of knowledgeable users on the forum with allot of good suggestions, the good devs reject the bad suggestions and have no problem explaining why.

then there's the elephant in the room..... it's almost 2018, we're all on this iOS cruise ship bragging and boasting about how futuristic we are and allot of the time we cannot get proper midi, proper audio import/export etc...
now these are standards and basic standards at that... I feel no remorse for requesting 'panning' in any app with a mixer seriously... it's not just in the world of iOS , look at the novation circuit its hardware and just got panning and those guys are geniuses, I asked for panning years ago and if that hurts somebody's feelings uhhhhh.......

just my opinion in a bucket of others, I believe if you give respect you get respect, I believe if you pay the asking price of a dev that you should expect a reasonable standard of operation... I don't believe in the two great myths of IOS , that iOS is cheap, I've spent zillions on apps, and that retronyms are the only devs it's ok to be critical of. I also don't believe the iOS platform is a dating service... sometimes people act like they want to go out with a dev more than have an app that works , I'm not one of those. Beat machines will always come first!!! One of my goals in life is to set up a college fund for the audioshare developers kids and it's not because I'm a chicken that lays warm fuzzys it's because he does not play games with us, he develops his ass off and has integrity, he makes sense and never says yes or no to a request for no reason, on top of this I don't think it's a coincidence that you never see him complaining about not getting paid for his apps and you never see people complaining about having to pay too much for his apps so something 'right' is going on there and I appreciate it!

brambos

@kobamoto said:
I feel no remorse for requesting 'panning' in any app with a mixer

You don’t say

kobamoto

mireko_2

@realdavidai said:
iOS DAW + AU all the way for me.

Full Screen AU and a good live host would solve a lot of issues

IAA should be abandoned
Link seems very temporary IMO

DAWs like Reason and Ableton can use Link to sync to your iPad so you don't need to hook up anything but the audio inputs on your mixer.. This is a huge benefit for those of us that use DAW and iPad just as a sample source.

Also hardware like the Akai MPC Live that now support Link makes the iPad so much more usable for live gigs and jamming with friends. Link is awesome and one of the best things to happen with iOS imho

[Deleted User]

@oat_phipps said:

Quote

Here's a nice experiment. Whenever a new playful app gets released and discussed here and the developer is invited to join the conversation (which is, by the way, an awesome aspect of this group!) look at what happens next: you'll see a barrage of posts like "Hey dude, awesome new app... I'm having so much fun. When can we expect you to add [connectivity feature XYZ]?". Essentially, you're all telling the developer to stop his creative journey and start focusing on technical features instead. It takes a lot of stubbornness and a strong vision in a developer to not give in and stick with his original vision and where he intended to let the app grow...

---

This is the only glaring negative of this forum. I feel crappy for all the devs (and it usually ends up being ALL of them) who've just released something and then don't get any feedback on what's actually there in the app, just (sometimes way-too pushy) suggestions and requests for more stuff, all within 10 minutes of release.

Not sure what forum you've been on, but that sweeping generalisation doesn't match my experience of this one. Bit negative?

Sure there are occasional 'moon on a stick requests' and rudeness, just as there are sycophantic nodding dogs who'd be happy to pay $150 dollars for a plate of cold status quo. Overall though members show a great deal of respect to good developers, and positive feedback suggestions are offered (and received) in good spirit.

I'd like to think significant progress has been made with many apps, and iOS music in general, due to active communities like this one with members who give up their time to help push things forward and provide useful (free) user feedback. For devs, and potential customers.

brambos

Yeah.. my post was not meant to point out a negative, just observations! I honestly realize very well that my apps wouldn't be what they are now without the input and feedback of this forum.

gusgranite

I have to say this ACPY4 campaign has been extremely naff. There was all this major daily count down with supposedly 15 days of gifts and lots of promise but little actually offered. Mainly sound pack discounts I think. And then nothing for days once the countdown was over, just a promise that ACPY4 is coming soon, and that if you subscribe to their mailing list then “your inbox will never be the same”. What an anti-climax.

I have nothing against the end product or the developers but that is rather lame marketing if you ask me.

brambos

@gusgranite said:
if you subscribe to their mailing list then “your inbox will never be the same”.

That had me LOL'ing. For some reason that gave me a mental picture of a bunch of tough goons breaking into my house, trashing the place with baseball bats

gusgranite

@brambos said:

@gusgranite said:
if you subscribe to their mailing list then “your inbox will never be the same”.

That had me LOL'ing. For some reason that gave me a mental picture of a bunch of tough goons breaking into my house, trashing the place with baseball bats

Too funny. The irony is that all of our inboxes ARE the same... full of spammy promos because we signed up for free samples or whatever

They don't do themselves any favours do they...

[Deleted User]

@realdavidai said:
iOS DAW + AU all the way for me.

Full Screen AU and a good live host would solve a lot of issues

IAA should be abandoned
Link seems very temporary IMO

What a load of pooyang!

AUM exists mostly because of IAA and is as useful as any iOS daw will ever be

Link is the icing on the cake

Because of these two things, live iOS music is possible

[Deleted User]

The bitching towards retronyms continues yet no one yet knows what audio copy version 4 will bring

The politeness of this forum and respectful and constructive criticism are very almost non existent.

Can we not have the facts first then discuss then?

I often wonder about why they have not fully embraced audiobus, perhaps they are hesitant to provide what you want because of the way they are talked about on here...

gusgranite

@Love3quency said:
The bitching towards retronyms continues yet no one yet knows what audio copy version 4 will bring

The politeness of this forum and respectful and constructive criticism are very almost non existent.

Can we not have the facts first then discuss then?

I often wonder about why they have not fully embraced audiobus, perhaps they are hesitant to provide what you want because of the way they are talked about on here...

No bitching intended so my apologies if that's how it came across. My post was referring to the marketing campaign, not the product. Fingers crossed for a fine new release from obviously talented developers.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

hansjbs

@gusgranite said:
I have to say this ACPY4 campaign has been extremely naff. There was all this major daily count down with supposedly 15 days of gifts and lots of promise but little actually offered. Mainly sound pack discounts I think. And then nothing for days once the countdown was over, just a promise that ACPY4 is coming soon, and that if you subscribe to their mailing list then “your inbox will never be the same”. What an anti-climax.

I have nothing against the end product or the developers but that is rather lame marketing if you ask me.

Exactly. All this countdown nonsense and nothing to show just a coming soon. Why do companies big or small do this. If you’re gonna have a countdown make sure you have something good. If not just don’t say nothing and drop it. I’m all for communicating but sometimes it’s just not done right. I blame the marketing department.

realdavidai

@Love3quency said:

@realdavidai said:
iOS DAW + AU all the way for me.

Full Screen AU and a good live host would solve a lot of issues

IAA should be abandoned
Link seems very temporary IMO

What a load of pooyang!

AUM exists mostly because of IAA and is as useful as any iOS daw will ever be

Link is the icing on the cake

Because of these two things, live iOS music is possible

Pooyang?? Thanks for augmenting my vocabulary.

robertreynolds

@Love3quency said:
The bitching towards retronyms continues yet no one yet knows what audio copy version 4 will bring

The politeness of this forum and respectful and constructive criticism are very almost non existent.

Can we not have the facts first then discuss then?

I often wonder about why they have not fully embraced audiobus, perhaps they are hesitant to provide what you want because of the way they are talked about on here...

1. AudioCopy isn't very good so we have a track record.
2. They should be happy they're in the discussion at all. It shows we still care about their success.
3. Politeness is relative. If I recall you've been a bit rude yourself in the past.

BiancaNeve

Ah but AudioCopy 4 will be amazing....or not.

Samu

ACPY4 will be fun to check out but the most amusing thing is the slogan used on the page 'September to Remember'
(ie. when when nothing new was delivered).