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“I’m learning to fly. But I an’t got wings.”
- Tom Petty
With all the chaos in the universe, anyone would think we were the first humanoid shaped creatures to walk this planet.
I delved into his monomyth concept a decade and a half ago for something I was writing up after my MSc as a proposal for a PhD on the resonant effects of electronic media defining the self (which never happened), but to be honest, I thought I’d appreciate his ideas a lot more than I did. It seemed like a relishing idea that it all has commonality but in truth I thought he struggled to shoehorn everything into very tenuous associations. I listened to a bunch of audiobooks on it, too. To sum up, I now think he’s bollocks, not intentionally, but by falling into a delicious trap and having to defend it. People want it to be true.
I’ve always said that if you take a phrase that someone has said, which includes the word ‘random’, and then you substituted that word ‘random’ with the phrase ‘too complicated to go into at this particular point in time’, it would still make perfect sense.
At the quantum level, people will argue (incorrectly) that events are random, but I have to ask – you’re telling me that there’s shit happening somewhere in the universe outside of our scale of perception, for absolutely no reason at all? Really? No cause at all? Nothing caused it? Of course not. Every minimum energy event that ever happens (which you can think of as a ‘tick’ on the pile of ‘time’ over there) which changes the state of the universe from ‘the same’ to ‘different’ will be causal. Otherwise it wouldn’t have happened. The whole of the universe is therefore causal and prescriptive and deterministic. It isn’t from a human point of view, but imagine being a being that was omipresent, omnipotent, omnivorous and could perceive all at once. You’d see that there indeed must be a ‘script’ for the universe and its playout through the resistance of time. My betting is that it isn’t a linear sequential script, but a network description (which can be a linear sequential description, but of a network, with many choices of fan-out and many of those join back up later, and many of those are functionally equivalent paths, and many are not).
The thing is, we resist the idea that there might be a single linear list of stuff to happen, as a (pretty fucking obvious) result of the causal deterministic nature of the universe. We don’t like this idea. We like the idea that there is ‘random’ (hint: there isn’t). Why don’t we like this idea? My legs don’t mind it. My hands don’t object, my gut quite enjoys it - that’s how it works, my toes are okay with it, my ears are fine with it. My eyes and my brain have second thoughts. The thing that objects to a deterministic script description of the network playout of causality is my self. The least useful part of my body. It is only the self that objects. Get rid of the self, and you’re good with all that is around.
As for quantum events and their alleged capacity to hold both results at once, equally – ie the cat is both dead or alive (not Pete Burns band) at the same time. This sounds mystifying and people will nod their heads as if they get it. Of course they don’t, they just don’t want an even more baffling explanation of quantum indeterminacy, so they’ll pretend that somehow the electron has both a top spin and a bottom spin, and the other electron therefore has both a bottom spin and a top spin, and it is only upon observation (if that can be done without intrusion) (it can’t) that the state ‘collapses’ and you observe that this one has a top spin, and the other one magically turns out to have a bottom spin.
Okay, I have a lottery ticket for tonight’s lottery. I am both a millionaire as a result, and also not a millionaire. At the same time (ie now). The lottery draw will ‘collapse’ the function such that I will discover that I am not a millionaire after all and some other lucky bastard is.
Imagine a lottery with only two numbers.
The consequence is a sea of events?
I did a rap version of silent night some years ago. Does that count as spirituality?
Nah, i was saying the opposite. I think that there is a direct cause to everything. The thing is that quantum theory states that when there is some cause, the result is random, therefore breaking the chain of "direct causality" and that the result is not determined until the quantum level interacts with macro level and "collapses" to a certain result. Therefore stating that the universe doesent work in a deterministic fashion. Ofc no proper scientist thinks that any theory is the absolute truth that cant be any different from the theory. But the general consensus is that the world is not deterministic, but random in its core. However if whether or not it is random or deterministic doesent cause false results in our measurements, it is not something that must be concluded with 100% certainty in order to make science.
My hypothesis is that the the results from quantum level are not actually random, but that they could be predicted if we just had more understanding about laws of quantum mechanics and knowledge about every little interaction that effects the quantum interaction that we are trying to predict. Which seems what you are essentially saying as well.
Are you familiar with the quantum eraser experiment by the way?
It proves that information is sent back in time by waves and tells the past whether or not it was observed which slit the photons(or particles acting as waves due to not being observed) went through in double slit experiment.
However if the world is not random in the quantum level(according to my theory), that would blur the line between past, now and the future and you could make time a similar dimension to our 3 dimension, except that it would be a dimension of movement of our 3 dimensions, movement that has been predetermined from beginning to the end. That would mean that time is not something that even necessarily moves towards, but time is a sort of structure that we experience the way we do due to how our brains build over time. It seems that light(/waves) works outside this concept of time that we observe. And this whole quantum eraser and double slit experiment problems start to make more sense.
Since this thread was put into focus I will mention that I find my creativity helps me feel closer to God and my purpose in this world. Not only has music, design and art in general helped me learn myself, I have met wonderful people, like you all in this forum, that have changed my life. The course chartered by being honest with ourselves, who really are, unlocks abundant blessings!
Probably not a good thread to have been resurrected.
I see what you did there. 😂😂
Actually that was unintentional, but I see it now…
Hehe. Man, that was the unintentional laugh I needed. ☺️ Cheers mate.
And, hopefully we can all remain civil about this thread and not yet start another shitshow that a certain thread about a certain genre of music last week spurred.
My journey with faith and religion is definitely a rocky one to say the least. I'll spare you the details as I could write a longform novel about those personal inner struggles and how they slowed me down. 😮💨
I do have some sort of faith in myself. Determination. Strong will. Independence from any labels. I create and shape and form my own little sonic universes as I see fit in accordance to my own will. ☺️
Anyways, if faith and religion inspire you, that's amazing. Some of the most poignant and inspirational songs and hymns came about from various faiths and beliefs. And some of the finest people I know have come from various backgrounds and traditions. For me personally faith is a hindrance. Your mileage may vary of course.
🙌🏽
I am quite into the occult but that doesn’t have anything to do with spirituality really. Once you get past all the cryptic messages and imagery and remove the shroud, it’s essentially just the same thing as zen meditation where you master mind and body. I use that imagery a lot in my music and art and draw tarot cards to guide my creative process. It’s all just imagery and techniques to rouse my brain though. All in all, I’m quite the atheist. Also that bot that resurrected this thread is such a total bothead
It be the thread of the damned and banned.
Thou shalt not speaketh of the damned and banned, or thou shalt spendeth 90 days working for an oppressive record label that controlleth thy every move. 😂🤣🤣
I have always tried to take heed of Mark Twain’s words on talking about politics or religion, and feel there is a lot of truth in them. 🐒
I have to truely say that the closest I’ve ever felt to God is when I listen to music by Hammock. There is something about them that makes me feel like everything is going to just be ok. I wish I could find a girlfriend who loves them as much as I do.. she would be the perfect girl for me…
« Abandon all hope, you who enter here. »
Dante, foreseeing how this thread will turn out…
Hail Santa
Yeshua for me, this earthly world is temporary.
Existentialist atheist here. No gods, no monsters. Only us.
This is the beauty, and the terror, of our brief lights flickering in the darkness.
For the (monotheist) believers: I just believe in one less God than you. On the same evidence base. (Existence.)
It’s actually not both results at once but more like all possible results between both of them, including both of them
Also people are thinking about Scheodinger cat like it is actual experiment but it doesn’t mean if you close physical in box it will be actually live and dead simultaneously :-)))) It was just thought experiment to actually illustrate how absurd is quantum world and how weird it would be if macroscopic objects wouls behave as quantum object.
Quantum effects (wave function, it’s collapse, quantum tunelling, entanglement) are really happening just on (sub)atomic scale (with exception of thinkgs lile eninstein-bose condensate, materials in stage of superconductor, and some experimental configuration of molecules)
Well, this is called “Hidden variables” interpretation of QM , and
here few videos on topic of (super)determinism and free will vs . QM
universe is very strange .. just consider that according theory of relativity time flows differently based on frame of reference - what is one’s past may be other’s future, it depends on how fast and in which direction they move
basically it leads to conclusion that everything what happened, is happening and will happen exists simultaneously, at once.
The other day I realized how much faith we walk around having, whether we believe in a higher power or not.
We have faith we wake up the next day, our car will start, house will be where it is when we get home, money will be in the bank and this forum still exists when we navigate to it, but reality is nothing is promised or definite except change itself.
I have personally experienced some amazing connections that have increased my faith in a higher power. It’s like the holy grail in Indiana Jones, he stepped out even though nothing was below him and he didn’t fall - yes, just a movie but I have stepped out and not fallen many instances. From there it’s been like playing a game that unlocks rewards for taking a chance, when the chance was spirit lead.
Definitely not pushing anything on anyone, because this world is miraculous with all of us collectively. I am proud of my elevated faith and willing to share hope and testimonies when warranted.
I really appreciate the deep thought in this thread because it is needed. There is a time to wander aimlessly, a time to chill and a time to focus 🙌🏽
Amen, sister
I see what you did there
+1 ... there's a big difference between someone sharing how their personal beliefs/worldview etc influence their creativity, which is what the OP was asking, and mud slinging arguments between people who are just trying to beat the other guy down.
Great topic for a discussion.
My spirituality connects with my creativity at the deepest level ... both come from the deeper layers of a person, and can feed each other. For me that's a Christian faith, which is my foundation, of but I have friends of a range of different persuasions and worldviews and we have some very interesting conversations.
I appreciate creativity that comes from a deep place in a person, whether it's music, writing, film-making or whatever, regardless of the faith or worldview of the creator, and music that comes from a deep place can touch the soul and tap into our universal desires, struggles, questions, yearnings etc as human beings and I can feel when someone's creativity is reaching into my soul.
e.g. I was listening to some wonderful music by a Ukrainian composer the other day, and the haunting melody cut my heart like a knife - the music was born from something that has been very painful in her life and the music was all the richer for it.
You obviously never owned the type of car I had to drive in my teens and early 20s…