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Speak with our wallets!

Perhaps if everyone stopped buying 'exclusive' IAP like Fabfilter for Auria, Waves for cubasis etc.. the ios production world would soon become a far better place?

Lame that users like myself are potentially forced in to workflow something like the following. Just to have comparable tools to their desktop setup -

Make track in BM3
Export tracks
Mix in Auria to use Fabfilter
Export tracks
Mix in Cubasis to use Waves
Export tracks
Mix in desktop for what's missing in ios world.

Not saying the above is 'neccessary', but you get my point ;) It's not doing the platform any favours as a whole and is handicapping it from becoming a totally legitimate alternative to desktop.

If people were less abiding to this more ridiculous side of ios then perhaps the companies would have to re-think and make all plugins universal? Like in every other production environment ;)

Don't shoot me! Just an idea... Probably already suggested in here many times, but there you go..

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Comments

  • @Iostress said:
    If people were less abiding to this more ridiculous side of ios then perhaps the companies would have to re-think and make all plugins universal? Like in every other production environment ;)

    Nice idea, but I think you vastly overestimate to power of IOS music makers. We are comparatively few. The big players very much see this format as advertising for their real money maker, the desktop.

  • edited January 2018

    I don't see the point here (about voting with our wallets).
    We all make financial/software choices for our workflows.
    Same on any DAW - we buy the plug ins we need to envisage our outcomes.

  • @Zen210507 said:

    @Iostress said:
    If people were less abiding to this more ridiculous side of ios then perhaps the companies would have to re-think and make all plugins universal? Like in every other production environment ;)

    Nice idea, but I think you vastly overestimate to power of IOS music makers. We are comparatively few. The big players very much see this format as advertising for their real money maker, the desktop.

    I get what you're saying :) but surely would be a far better advertisement if the plugins were avaliable to ALL users on ios and subsequently getting hyped by more people? No matter which daw the user owned/preferred?

  • And IOS dev's really make peanuts IMO

    • and everyone demands updates and new features weekly.
  • @Mayo said:
    I don't see the point here (about voting with our wallets).
    We all make financial/software choices for our workflows.
    Same on any DAW - we buy the plug ins we need to envisage our outcomes.

    Yeh but I don't have to switch between ableton and cubase on desktop, just to open a plugin ;) Its not an attractive workflow and only exists in ios.

  • @Mayo said:
    And IOS dev's really make peanuts IMO

    • and everyone demands updates and new features weekly.

    That has nothing to do with something being exclusive tho?

  • Yes - the workflow in your example is crap - no doubt about it.
    Some people are happy to stick with one app.
    But Ableton has it's own custom plugs - so does Protools.

  • @Mayo said:
    Yes - the workflow in your example is crap - no doubt about it.
    Some people are happy to stick with one app.
    But Ableton has it's own custom plugs - so does Protools.

    Yeh but I'm not talking about the free factory fx, all apps/daws have those, I'm talking about exclusive IAPs. On desktop all top shelf stuff is universal. Ios cripples itself to some extent by pursuing its own, less flexible model. Which, for once, isn't even a hindrance dictated by Apple themselves ;)

  • Fab Filter agreed to port their plug ins over to Auria over 5 years ago, long before AUv3 and long before iOS music production is where it's at now (which is still admittedly a small section of the professional market compared to desktop, itself very small compared to consumer audio). The story I heard was they were excited about the facility & possibilities Auria represented and Rim/WaveMachine Labs showed them that the coding/port wouldn't be impossible.

    Fab Filter wasn't and isn't being elitist, exclusionary or contemptuous towards the iOS music production scene. They have a product most people "kinda" into music wouldn't buy on a whim ($40 for a limiter, etc) and have a growing desktop market that is their primary focus. Rim has made AU's compatible with Auria and has stated he has no control over the IAP's coming to the rest of iOS. No conspiracy, jyst the way it is.

    Waves just entered this arena with two plugins that mirror models they released on desktop celebrating their 25th anniversary. It's been a few months so who knows if they see the Cubasis sales and get into the iOS AU side or not. Time will tell.

    The plugins from Fab Filterhave endured because they work. They are truly professional tools worth the money and then some. I get how the process outlined with exporting & importing mixes to use them is an annoyance but it's a hell of a lot better than the time commitments that older technologies like tape & outboard gear demanded in order to get "passable" results.

    I think 2018 is going to see more AU's of pro level plugs showing up on the App Store. And if not, the Auria FabFilter plugs have endured because they're excellent & comparatively speaking, damn affordable. They will be around for a long time to come.

  • It's just the way the world works - business models - companies do deals.
    So do fruit and vegetable growers, winemakers - you name it.
    I buy the tools I need, and go to work around the limitations handed to me.

  • @Mayo said:
    It's just the way the world works - business models - companies do deals.
    So do fruit and vegetable growers, winemakers - you name it.
    I buy the tools I need, and go to work around the limitations handed to me.

    Yeh, we all work with what we have ;) just saying that for anyone who’s time is valueable that wants top shelf and flexibility without a tedious workflow, iOS seems determined to perpetuate limitations that are enough to keep many people away or only using it as an ‘element’, instead of their main environment. Not all people, by far, but many.

    And the ‘exclusive’ IAP plug-ins are just another of ios’s ‘ugh....really?’ ;) But it’s not an Apple enforced limitation in this case. Though as @JRSIV pointed out, that wasn’t always the case and fabfilter teamed with Auria before AU. That hadn’t occured to me when I posted. Hopefully they can unshackle themselves ;)

  • Does Rim (from Auria) have an exclusivity deal with Fabfilter? Seems odd that they wouldn't port to AU at this point.

  • Being able to run vst is an ‘in app purchase’ on several desktop products by the way.

  • @Michael_R_Grant said:
    Does Rim (from Auria) have an exclusivity deal with Fabfilter? Seems odd that they wouldn't port to AU at this point.

    As I recall he made some sort of converter whereby he could auto convert VSTs into Auria plug-ins
    If I remember rightly it doesn’t seem that odd really as porting to AU would involve them in doing some coding whereas the Auria plugs didn’t.

  • I understand your frustrations @lostress
    The work arounds on IOS drive me to abandon solely using apps, and so I still predominately use my DAW, and apps as instruments, synths, sequencers etc.

    But this whole "iOS seems determined to perpetuate limitations" is just not reality when dev's are getting a tiny amount of return for their apps.
    And then musicians are paid almost nothing for their creations these days...

    I can't see any standardization coming to IOS (except in the way they communicate and sync)

  • I think the bigger problem is us - the IOS users.
    We demand SO much, and want to pay a pittance, and expect constant upgrades or we whinge that we have been "abandoned"
    Then slag off the (poor) dev's !!!
    Most of them are doing it as a sideline hobby / passion

  • @BiancaNeve said:
    Being able to run vst is an ‘in app purchase’ on several desktop products by the way.

    Not sure if you’re just arguing for sake of it? Theres nothing I’ve ever come across on desktop that is comparable to fabfilter and waves locking themselves in to daws on iOS. And I’ve been producing on desktop for 20+ years....Maybe there’s some super niche product somewhere, but we’re talking about well known, bread and butter plugins.

  • @Mayo said:
    I think the bigger problem is us - the IOS users.
    We demand SO much, and want to pay a pittance, and expect constant upgrades or we whinge that we have been "abandoned"
    Then slag off the (poor) dev's !!!
    Most of them are doing it as a sideline hobby / passion

    Waves and fabfilter are definitely not developing software as a hobby ;) You’re talking about a totally different thing ;)

  • @Iostress said:

    @Mayo said:
    It's just the way the world works - business models - companies do deals.
    So do fruit and vegetable growers, winemakers - you name it.
    I buy the tools I need, and go to work around the limitations handed to me.

    Yeh, we all work with what we have ;) just saying that for anyone who’s time is valueable that wants top shelf and flexibility without a tedious workflow, iOS seems determined to perpetuate limitations that are enough to keep many people away or only using it as an ‘element’, instead of their main environment. Not all people, by far, but many.

    And the ‘exclusive’ IAP plug-ins are just another of ios’s ‘ugh....really?’ ;) But it’s not an Apple enforced limitation in this case. Though as @JRSIV pointed out, that wasn’t always the case and fabfilter teamed with Auria before AU. That hadn’t occured to me when I posted. Hopefully they can unshackle themselves ;)

    @Iostress I'm with you, I'd dig being able to use FabFilter plugs in Cubasis or AUM, but aside from the few posts re: Auria on their site/forum, FabFilter is severely quiet about iOS. On purpose or not, don't know. AU is the way iOS plugins & IAP's are headed, whether FF jumps in soon seems close to the vest.

    I appreciate your viewpoint and agree some devs seem to just hurt themselves more than help, but Auria's team have been really fair and embracing AU's is the proof for me. If they make anything off of the FabFilter & PSP IAP's & wanted to be dicks they could've dragged their feet on AU implementation, but they can see what's up... it's the future for iOS. Hopefully FabFilter will see that as well.

  • edited January 2018

    These companies are a minority.
    Waves have been around for decades.
    I remember paying $12,000 for 2 basic Waves licences for my 2 HD rigs only 15 years ago.
    I was not allowed to have one licence on 2 recording studio computers - so I had to pay $6000 twice!!!
    Their business model over the last 20 years is atrocious - I wont touch their stuff.
    Fab Filter make really great stuff.

    So are you suggesting that all of the multitrack IOS formats now should use these 2 companies to standardize the platform?

    No - I support the independent smaller passionate developers on IOS, and DAW.
    I speak with my wallet :)

  • I’ve seen comments here fueled on complaints that a $10 app was “way too expensive.” Ten dollars. TEN. It’s no secret that devs are way undercompensated for their creations and it’s a damn shame. This stuff is amazing...even the shit, it’s amazing that we’re able to even do this. But if many voices are demanding that $10 is too expensive on this platform then I can’t imagine too many desktop-focused devs are lining up their plugins to be ported over. We’ve been blessed by the likes of SugarBytes, Audio Damage, FabFilter etc. for their ports. But the independent devs are the ones keeping this whole thing moving forward. They are the ones I’m eager to throw my wallet at. Workflows can be a pain, yes. But this world is amazing every day.

  • Yeah, we’ll stop buying the best IAPs on iOS, that are many times less expensive than on desktop, and that will encourage major developers to make them universal. We just sit back and watch them come crawling. Sounds like a plan. :)

    Another plan could be to stick with one iOS DAW and its plug-ins when making a track. Just pretend nothing else exists at that moment. Then export to desktop, where the more expensive software provides more options.

  • Even on desktop almost every DAW have set of "build in" plugins which are available exclusively just for that DAW (Fruilty Loops, Cubase, Studio One, Logic, ... )

    It is completely valid method to fight with other DAW competitors by providing plugins which are NOT available for other DAWs .. Everybody is doing this since beginning of computer DAW era ..

  • IOS started as a platform to make music.
    Now people demand features that are on par with DAW's
    Its a joke.

    Make music on whatever you got ;)

  • @Mayo said:
    These companies are a minority.
    Waves have been around for decades.
    I remember paying $12,000 for 2 basic Waves licences for my 2 HD rigs only 15 years ago.
    I was not allowed to have one licence on 2 recording studio computers - so I had to pay $6000 twice!!!
    Their business model over the last 20 years is atrocious - I wont touch their stuff.
    Fab Filter make really great stuff.

    So are you suggesting that all of the multitrack IOS formats now should use these 2 companies to standardize the platform?

    No - I support the independent smaller passionate developers on IOS, and DAW.
    I speak with my wallet :)

    Huh?? I wasn't suggesting that at all...

    I buy/use whatever plugins tick boxes for me or sound best to my ear. On either ios or desktop. I'm not going to handicap myself based on the status of a dev. That would be like only paying for music made by struggling artists. Nonsense..

    I dig Fabfilter a lot. Used in almost every track in every session. Waves not so much but often use a few of their plugs. As well as using plugs by smaller devs. Whatever works best for the job.

    My point was that to do this without a convoluted workflow, ios isnt 1st choice cos you have some options locked in to one daw, some other options locked in to another. And so on.. Whereas this problem doesn't exist on desktop. For plugins at least. Was just saying that if people didn't support it then it might cease to happen. Or not. God knows really..

  • @Mayo said:
    IOS started as a platform to make music.
    Now people demand features that are on par with DAW's
    Its a joke.

    Make music on whatever you got ;)

    Lol. Everybody IS making music with whatever they've got. That's not the conversation ;)

  • @dendy said:
    Even on desktop almost every DAW have set of "build in" plugins which are available exclusively just for that DAW (Fruilty Loops, Cubase, Studio One, Logic, ... )

    It is completely valid method to fight with other DAW competitors by providing plugins which are NOT available for other DAWs .. Everybody is doing this since beginning of computer DAW era ..

    Maybe you don't use desktop? But exclusive IAP plugins aren't a 'thing' on desktop. Yeh you get bundled fx. But that's not what we're talking about. Thought this was already covered a few posts ago?

  • @lovadamusic said:
    Yeah, we’ll stop buying the best IAPs on iOS, that are many times less expensive than on desktop, and that will encourage major developers to make them universal. We just sit back and watch them come crawling. Sounds like a plan. :)

    Another plan could be to stick with one iOS DAW and its plug-ins when making a track. Just pretend nothing else exists at that moment. Then export to desktop, where the more expensive software provides more options.

    My point is that I'm not going to buy ANY plugins on ios that are exclusive to a daw that isn't my daw of choice. And who does that benefit? The IAP devs? Me? No one...

    I'll just continue to sketch stuff out in ios then take it to desktop to mix. I'm not complaining about that. Just saying its a shame it has to be that way...

  • At the end of the day, iOS music production is ‘Doing it on the cheap’ compared to other platforms.
    If you stop buying, developers will just abandon the platform and look somewhere else.

  • @DefRobot said:
    At the end of the day, iOS music production is ‘Doing it on the cheap’ compared to other platforms.
    If you stop buying, developers will just abandon the platform and look somewhere else.

    Not if they see that everyone is abandoning them to spend their money on AU apps/devs ;)

This discussion has been closed.