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Speak with our wallets!
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Comments
Nope I’m saying quite accurately that the ability to run standard well know bread and butter VSTs is an optional extra on several desktop products
As an example look at Stagelight.
Why not try reading peoples posts and developers manuals before typing in the long run it saves embarrassment.
Why would someone like Fabfilter/waves charge less than their IAP price if they switched to universal AU?? They can charge same as they were charging for exclusive IAP.
Can't tell if you're being intentionally obtuse just to argue?
‘kin A.
I've never even heard of 'Stagelight'. Maybe because they have IAP for VST...
What a pointless thread
I should be working - not arguing with this ridiculous proposal.
Gone.
The workflow issues didn't happen by design - none of this was deliberate. It's simply a result of how the platform evolved over time. iOS has only really been a music-making platform since the iPad 2 came out, around 2011, whereas the desktop has had 25 years to sort these issues out.
First of all, because of the sandboxing that Apple insisted on, there was no way at all for music apps to work together, every app was in its own self-contained world until Audiobus came along and offered a way to route audio between apps.
It was in this world that Auria was born: there was no plugin standard at the time, so having the plugins native to Auria was the only option. Crucially Auria doesn't require a complicated port, it essentially converts the VSTs that already exist, which means that PSP and FabFilter didn't need to dedicate much in the way of resources to the iOS versions of their plugins, which makes them profitable even at the much lower prices compared to the desktop versions.
Eventually Apple created IAA as a way to route audio between apps, but it really sucked, so after a couple of years they also introduced AU. Both protocols were very poorly documented and riddled with bugs to begin with, so it's taken some time for the platform to mature and get to where we are now with a more-or-less reliable plugin solution. Note that even now there are still often problems running AUs in many hosts: for example many of the Audio Damage AUs only run reliably in AUM, getting them to work reliably in any other host, including GarageBand which ought to be the gold standard, is not possible.
For FabFilter to port their plugins to AU is likely to be more resource-intensive to them than the original Auria port, so in order for that to happen they would have to be convinced it would be worth their while and profitable. With iOS pricing and sales numbers it may well not be, in which case it simply won't ever happen.
So you see, it's not a conspiracy to make your life difficult, and it's not because the devs don't care or are greedy or just trying to cut exclusive deals, it's basically down to the historical development of the platform and its economic realities. If anyone is to blame, it's Apple.
Missing. The. Point. > @Mayo said:
Could have been a valid discussion but half the posts didn't even make any sense
I'm out too.
Deleted
WTF is that little shot about at the end of your post? Grow the f*@k up.
Is that a threat or a promise?
If you’ve been around the internet for any length of time then what I would call a “wind up merchant” is easily spotted. They come across as a bit pathetic really.
I do find it amusing but I wonder for the mental health of some people if this is how they want to spend their precious time.
I used to devote way too much time baiting such characters and I suppose it was fun then but these days I’d rather create music and help others who just want to make the most of the wonderful array of technology we have at our disposal.
And that is probably enough typing from me on the subject for a while.
(Edit) I see you’ve deleted your post, you seem to be doing a lot of this. Are you easily bored and need to create some drama? A bit of a keyboard warrior? Therapy is available, just saying.
Ugh. @mayo and couple others clearly joined the discussion just to argue, without having a valid point either way. Thread implosion.
But you sir are a a Saint and a Martyr. An inspiration to us all. Bless you and good day.
In ref to your edit. I deleted an accidental duplicate quoted post thing having hit wrong button. But also, what on earth are you on about dude? ‘Drama’, ‘keyboard warrior’. lol, strange world you live in! In mine people discuss gear const and have differing opinions without getting bent out of shape like children or throwing their dummy if people disagree with them or they lose an argument..’drama’, ‘keyboard warrior’ again,lol. if anyone is making drama it’s people consistently over reacting to literally ‘nothing’. If I find a therapist I’ll hook you up with deets
Man, i'm making music since 1995 :-) I started with trackers and then i passed through almost all major DAW's available
)
Ok, on desktop DAWS you don't pay for plugins as IAP, insetad you pay for whole DAW, but in result you spend +/- same amount money .. If you take retail price of Cubase or Fruity Loops or Ableton with all their bundled plugins, you get +/- same total price like if you buy Auria + all IAP plugins .. so .. different pricing model, different platforms, but final point is same - Author of DAW is trying to add some special value to all basic "mandatory" DAW features - which is often set of exclusive plugins - to increase his advantage in competition of other DAWs
@JRSIV : Excellent comment :
Some semblance of a file system is available now on iOS 11 and it’s just gonna get better. Can you imagine Beatmaker 3? GarageBand 3.0? Who could imagined link 2 yrs ago. iOS is a work in progress . It’s gonna be miles ahead in two years. In 5 unimaginably great.
Imagine Gadget in theee Years
Who knows, in five years we might even have a sequencer a la Squarp for iOS
I have this great bridge in London I’d love to sell you.
>
Sorry, lostress, but you really are barking up the wrong tree. The big boys are dabbling in our pond. No more, no less. Until Apple treat IOS music as a serious platform, the bigger companies in music production won’t either.
Thank you for starting this thread @Iostress. I completely agree with you and have actually voted with my wallet as you suggest. It’s a workflow statement rather than a political one. I only need one DAW so I’m not into buying another one just for the IAP plugins. That feels like bloatware and it just doesn’t make sense to me as a workflow. So as much as I would LOVE to use the Fabfilter plugins (they look so pretty...) I have no plans to use Auria Pro as my DAW at the moment. Same goes for Waves and Cubasis. I have let Fabfilter know on their forum. Again, no big politics. Just workflow.
I happen to have picked BM3 as my DAW and have gone with the non-exclusive mixing and mastering apps from DDMF and the like. Very new to this though so just learning the tools.
Try and stay above the criticisms @Iostress. I take no offence at you posting your ideas and would like to see you continue to post here. I get that you would like to see iOS become a more complete production platform on a par with the desktop world and appreciate that approach. If a developer has enough suggestions they can let you know.
Peace.
Maybe if iOS had been designed as an open platform from the beginning then things wouldn't have turned out the way they have. But it wasn't - the sandbox was central to the design of the OS and it took years for Apple to open things up.
The OP makes no recognition of the history of the platform, just "why doesn't this work for me?" as if it was a conspiracy by users or devs to keep things closed.
If AU had been there from the beginning then of course we wouldn't have the situation we have now. As has already been said, when Auria was released there was no plugin format on iOS. No-one can change the past, so be patient and give it some time and maybe things will evolve.
If you mix in one app, then export tracks to mix again in another app, then export again to mix in another app, I'm not sure what you're accomplishing.
I have some waves plugins that I use on Mac that are great, as well as plugins from other companies that are also great. However, I think it should be noted that waves released 3 of their oldest plugins to ios. I think there's excitement that the company that produced the very first plugin (q10) put some things out in ios, as it is likely a test to see if they have a market for allocating resources coding for Ios, but q10, the channel strip, and L1 are not any different than tools available in other apps. The built in channel strips in auria have all of the same facility built in as well- the eq looks a little different but it's not different in function.
Is there any particular reason that you'd need to use pro-q, bounce the same track so you can use q10, then bounce somewhere else again, etc? Maybe I'm missing something, in which case I am open to understanding another workflow, but it seems like just duplicating functions in order to use things by different companies. Using pro-q in multiple instances or using pro-q on some tracks and q10 on others isn't really going to make anything better. In fact, it may make it worse.
Even further, if you start on bm3, I'm going to suppose that youre not tracking a live band info bm3, then exporting raw wav files to auria, I'm going to assume you are using the sampler (but I know assumptions are not always prudent...), so why not choose samples that work for the sound you want rather than finding a sample and running it through tons of plugins in different platforms?
I get the point that you weren't aware of how fabfilter got involved, so that changes things some. But, also consider that while the fabfilter plugins are cool, and I do have and use pro-q a different pro-c often when I use auria, that auria already had an extremely high quality channel strip built by psp. Cubasis, on the other hand, is a smaller version of Cubase that is serving a different purpose than auria. I'm not saying Cubasis isn't good, but just different aim.
I agree with those who say the low price point of iOS apps relative to the desktop and Apple’s poor support of their AU standards for developers all contribute to making the port of plugins to iOS more difficult and not financially attractive.
The iOS platform is still developing and still suffering mightily from the sandbox environment. When a more comprehensive file system and music infrastructure by Apple are in place along with a version of Logic for iOS exists, then I think more plugin developers will find the platform more attractive.
At this point I think voting with your wallet is reasonable if ineffective in terms of attracting more plugin developers to iOS since there’s not enough financial incentive to make it worth their while.
+1
Agreed. I have certainly put my money where my mouth is as well having nearly bought the damn lot...
This exclusive plugin thing does has always bugged me as well though. But @mrufino1 is right, I probably don’t actually need the Fabfilter plugins for the sound I’m trying to make. I just keep hearing they are THE BEST.
Anyway, this is all healthy discussion. I don’t see any need for it to derail.
(I didn’t have time to read the entire thread, so I apologise if I repeat any points previously made, but here are my thoughts nevertheless.)
I think it’s better to try and adapt your workflow on iOS than it is to deny yourself the ability to use the top-grade stuff that’s available for a fraction of the cost of PC/Mac software while being able to carry it anywhere you go on a machine that’ll not turn into a buggy piece of crap after a year (Apple’s forced obsolescence notwithstanding, although they got sued because of that
).
It’s true though. Windows sucks. No matter how well-protected I make my Windows laptop with anti-virus software and updates, it still manages to slow to a crawl after some time. I don’t use warez, don’t visit shady sites, and yet it STILL slows to a crawl after a year. It’s also expensive af.
So my point is, which workflow is better? A - The desktop one I’ve been used to for years that’ll eventually take FOREVER to boot, FOREVER to open a project, etc? B - The iOS one with a few extra odd steps but still works lightning fast after a year of usage? (And, those extra steps become second nature after a year, and Auria has drag-n-drop functionality in iOS 11 which makes using it as a final destination for bounced stems a breeze.)
I still wonder why people still think iOS is sooooo cheap against desktop tools. In some cases yes but in general that is not true at all anymore.
And lame booting notebooks are also from yesterday. As much as i like iOS it seems to bound people a lot and they make more out of it as it is sometimes.
With regard to FabFilters specifically, I don't have a problem running stuff out of AUM, into Auria Pro for some Fabfilter action, then back into AUM. Works pretty well actually. I know that's not the gist of the question, but it works.
And, if I were FabFilter, I wouldn't be launching the filters as iOS AUv3 either. Doesn't seem like a smart move. They already have a stellar reputation on the desktop and command premier pricing there. Why cannibalize that by making affordable AUv3 iOS versions? The iOS sound app market isn't hefty enough to support enough volume to make the risk worthwhile. And the current market won't support premium prices. Devs and a handful of users can rally for $50+ apps, and although some would pay that, I don't believe there are enough users willing to pay that level of pricing to be sustainable.
From what I can tell most users at this point are not making their living using iOS app in a studio environment. Most are enthusiast/hobbyists or casual users having a little fun. It's not really a "pro" market. Sure, some release online albums for commerce that could be considered "professional" by definition, but I'd wager even they aren't really able to support themselves with their music releases.
I think a few developers do ok, but likely have to keep a day job. An even fewer number of vloggers make what could be considered a living off of iOS audio market. Other than that, I don't see where there's a huge potential market at the moment.
How many of you are truly professional and use iOS apps to generate revenue that supports you? How many of you are using iOS apps in a professional-level studio and use iOS apps for the demands of pro-level clients? I'd venture to say most here are not... or, they wouldn't be spending so much time on this forum. They'd be busy producing.
@Iostress said:
You’re probably right. But I’ll leave you with this anyway: We can write, produce, mix and master our own material on our phones. Let that blow your mind again. And, you don’t need those two Waves plugins in Cubasis. Stick with Auria / FabFilter. Simplify your headaches and use your wallet to support the independent devs—the ones who are continuing to evolve this platform and push it into new territory. That is how we’ll make things louder.
Mannix says this is a call for a consumer strike, by a user who sees himself as a victim of the capitalist market, hence a political item so I opt for closing this thread.