Patterning 2

[Deleted User]

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[Deleted User]

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AudioGus

@RJB said:

Fruitbat1919 said;

A version of Patternings circular sequencer as an AU midi make perfect sense. Yes it could and should be a completely separate app and charged for.

Brilliant idea and would gladly pay for it

I would too.

AudioGus

@benkamen said:
Anyway, as I said, Patterning does make sense to me as an AU Host. I will do my best before launch to lay some groundwork so that it is possible for it be an update to v2, rather than having to wait for v3 (in 2021?). I'm getting myself in trouble by saying that out loud, but like I said, if an idea resonates with my vision of the app, I almost always will do it.

Reading this truly made my day

Carnbot

That's great to hear Ben, and I look forward to the release of P2. I still think Patterning would make a great AU midi instrument, stripped down and not all the features of the full blown app. But if that has to be in 2021, then so be it

Will

Like I mentioned earlier, I'm 100% happy with P2 as AB/IAA but, fwiw, would quickly pay again for a MIDI only stripped down AU version (PAUtterningMIDI? ). All of the parameters would default to some set of (editable) CCs. Actually, just a subset; 8-16 is plenty. In AU mode, I'd most likely use it as a melodic sequencer.

Pattern saving would matter but not much else from the existing UI would. I think; not looking at it currently. The ability to switch patterns via some incoming MIDI message would be a big boon so that you can string together songs. I don't think AUs need a full song mode though pattern chaining can still be quite useful I guess.

Some other Patterning-as-Melodic-MIDI-Sequencer dreams. I imagine most of these would be just as applicable to the IAA version though I understand (and respect) that it is first and foremost a drum sequencer. Just dreams, not demands.

1. Ability to save and recall/insert a single track's MIDI settings as an instrument/preset. If I set up a track's CCs to work with a target MIDI device or app I want to be able to quickly recall it in the future. This is the biggest shortcoming of the Digitakt for me personally. I LOVE the feature but I'm just too lazy to do it over and over! Ain't that what computers are for? I want to recall the "Model 15" instrument and just get to the music making. Super bonus if a) individual controls can be renamed (so "Cutoff" instead of "CC74") and b) users can share these.
2. Remote transpose. Because, Berlin School is the best school. Would need a way to disable it for certain tracks (like drums). Bonus for tidiness: the ability to use one of the internal tracks at a slow clock division to be the transpose source. With Patterning's clock division, variable pattern length, probability, randomness and track rotation features you could make a 'score' track that evolved into the sunset. Actually, I need to try this now!
3. Manual track transpose
4. Scale locking for melodic tracks. Maybe the new quantize already does this. There's just a lot of joy in dragging your finger around and getting only 'good' notes.
5. Borrowed from Quantum: for step probability, the ability to set it to skip or mute.
6. Actually, so long as I'm dreaming out loud, probability control for everything! For instance, using an open hi-hat sound, you could clamp down the decay so that it's more of a closed hi-hat. We can currently automate the decay but what if you could add probability to the lengthening? That way you'd get an open hi-hat sound on that step only sometimes. No idea how that could cleanly be worked into the UI but hubba hubba.
7. Ability to set a given step to play every Nth revolution. One of the best features of the Digitakt (and Quantum).
8. Step interpolation so that you can easily ramp values. Could be set per track but would be amazing if you could set it per step via some two finger gesture or something. Though perhaps the new ratcheting feature will allow enough resolution to make it feel like it's gliding. Either way: hello, custom LFOs.

Will

I'm still curious what the set of single and double arrows around the right side of the circle do. Maybe I missed it.

Will

I wonder if it would be visually helpful if the minimized tracks used opacity to represent velocity?

Will

This might be crazy sounding but maybe food for post-launch thought: I think there's room in the AU world for a MIDI-only single track version of Patterning. I reckon Bram has proven this. The number of features available to a single track in Patterning is pretty immense when considered from a step sequencer point of view.

One big feature change to make the most of a single track should probably be in my MIDI dreams above: the ability to send in any MIDI notes and have Patterning do the work of converting those incoming notes to pitch automation for you.

ExAsperis99

Can we all agree that everyone who insists that AU Is The Future That Must Be Embraced™ is now categorically barred from complaining about the forced obsolescence of Apple devices?

[Deleted User]

@ExAsperis99 said:
Can we all agree that everyone who insists that AU Is The Future That Must Be Embraced™ is now categorically barred from complaining about the forced obsolescence of Apple devices?

No, because as someone struggling to run new, CPU intensive IAA synths and FX on a device crippled by the latest iOS update, low CPU AU apps are a blessing.

Will

Since I'm now filling this thread with my own P2(+) dreams, might as well include some old ones from https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/17724/useful-patterning-suggestions

1. I'd really love for the top right corner to be the play button. It's such an important button and it always feels fiddly to hit it.
2. Option to use a base MIDI Mapping that auto switches to the "active" track (along with a "next/previous track" mapping). So your physical knob that's assigned to Coarse Tune will work to adjust the tuning of which ever track is visible/active.

This is a really big one for me. The ability to have discreet external controls for sooooo many parameters in Patterning is fantastic but does anyone have that many knobs? See Elastic Drums, Nanostudio and the Ruismaker apps for examples of this in the wild.

4. Ability to copy a single track layer (like probability) and paste it onto any other track/layer. So you could take the velocity from track 1 and paste it as filter cutoff for track 2.

fun.amirite?

Hold 'Clear Pattern' and touch a layer type to clear just that layer

Or some way to clear out automation on a single layer.

When switching to layer, would be handy if it defaulted to whatever you were last on instead of Velocity. Since velocity is the default for all tabs, I can't think of a reason someone would want that when they switched to the layer tab.

And, as probably already been mentioned in this monster thread: automation layers for sample start and end would be epic.

ExAsperis99

@MonzoPro said:

@ExAsperis99 said:
Can we all agree that everyone who insists that AU Is The Future That Must Be Embraced™ is now categorically barred from complaining about the forced obsolescence of Apple devices?

No, because as someone struggling to run new, CPU intensive IAA synths and FX on a device crippled by the latest iOS update, low CPU AU apps are a blessing.

Fair point.

wim

If full and complete Audiobus midi and, most importantly, state saving will be there then life is good AUv3 or no. If the Audiobus transport bar is implemented with master play/stop and individual pad on/off buttons then that would be over the top!

@syrupcore said:
This might be crazy sounding but maybe food for post-launch thought: I think there's room in the AU world for a MIDI-only single track version of Patterning. I reckon Bram has proven this. The number of features available to a single track in Patterning is pretty immense when considered from a step sequencer point of view.

This is an outstanding idea.

SpookyZoo

@syrupcore said:
would quickly pay again for a MIDI only stripped down AU version

...ditto

If I set up a track's CCs to work with a target MIDI device or app I want to be able to quickly recall it in the future. This is the biggest shortcoming of the Digitakt for me personally. I LOVE the feature but I'm just too lazy to do it over and over! Ain't that what computers are for?

Wouldn't pressing AMP, FUNCTION, COPY(rec) to copy CC# page help here? AMP, FUNCTION, PASTE(stop) to paste.

If you know the pattern & track you've set up for your device, you can copy and paste this between tracks and patterns even in different banks on the Digitakt.

Will

@SpookyZoo said:

@syrupcore said:
If I set up a track's CCs to work with a target MIDI device or app I want to be able to quickly recall it in the future. This is the biggest shortcoming of the Digitakt for me personally. I LOVE the feature but I'm just too lazy to do it over and over! Ain't that what computers are for?

Wouldn't pressing AMP, FUNCTION, COPY(rec) to copy CC# page help here? AMP, FUNCTION, PASTE(stop) to paste.

If you know the pattern & track you've set up for your device, you can copy and paste this between tracks and patterns even in different banks on the Digitakt.

Yes, this kinda works but it's still a hack compared to the Digitakt's already available 'Sounds' feature for sample based tracks. With the Sound Browser, you can import and export any sound with all of its parameters. You can start a blank project or be working on an existing one and simply pull in one of those sounds. No such luck with MIDI-only "sounds". You have to use a base template, load it and be sure to 'Save as'. If you add something to your base template later and want it in another project... meh.

Plus, they're not named. I guess I could name the pattern and only have one MIDI sound set up per pattern you can't exactly see that in list format; more like manually loading patterns until you find the one you want. I just want to hit the Sound Browser, switch the list to "MIDI Only", select the one I want and get back to making a racket.

palm

Ben, thanks for all your hard work on P2.

You might be surprised at the number of people who would gladly shell out more money for a separate, simplified AU version. As some brilliant midi plugins have started to enter the world of iOS (rosetta, envolver, etc) AUM is becoming a hugely flexible audio/midi modular tool. I agree full screen Auv3 can be cumbersome, but once P2 is released I hope you consider developing a simplified midi plugin (perhaps one that doesn't require a full screen).

JohnnyGoodyear

Hey guys, good stuff. It was on the edge of a little bit churlish there but veered back to the civil and super productive side...

lukesleepwalker

@JohnnyGoodyear said:
Hey guys, good stuff. It was on the edge of a little bit churlish there but veered back to the civil and super productive side...

Where was that turn exactly?

fattigman

+1 for simplified AU version

Artefact2001

+1 for additional paid for patterning midi AU. The idea of it being ‘limited by 8 tracks’ misses the point of AU — multiple instances!

SpookyZoo

@syrupcore said:

@SpookyZoo said:

@syrupcore said:
If I set up a track's CCs to work with a target MIDI device or app I want to be able to quickly recall it in the future. This is the biggest shortcoming of the Digitakt for me personally. I LOVE the feature but I'm just too lazy to do it over and over! Ain't that what computers are for?

Wouldn't pressing AMP, FUNCTION, COPY(rec) to copy CC# page help here? AMP, FUNCTION, PASTE(stop) to paste.

If you know the pattern & track you've set up for your device, you can copy and paste this between tracks and patterns even in different banks on the Digitakt.

Yes, this kinda works but it's still a hack compared to the Digitakt's already available 'Sounds' feature for sample based tracks. With the Sound Browser, you can import and export any sound with all of its parameters. You can start a blank project or be working on an existing one and simply pull in one of those sounds. No such luck with MIDI-only "sounds". You have to use a base template, load it and be sure to 'Save as'. If you add something to your base template later and want it in another project... meh.

Plus, they're not named. I guess I could name the pattern and only have one MIDI sound set up per pattern you can't exactly see that in list format; more like manually loading patterns until you find the one you want. I just want to hit the Sound Browser, switch the list to "MIDI Only", select the one I want and get back to making a racket.

Damn. Now I want this too.

SpookyZoo

And these...

@syrupcore said:
Since I'm now filling this thread with my own P2(+) dreams, might as well include some old ones from https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/17724/useful-patterning-suggestions

1. I'd really love for the top right corner to be the play button. It's such an important button and it always feels fiddly to hit it.
2. Option to use a base MIDI Mapping that auto switches to the "active" track (along with a "next/previous track" mapping). So your physical knob that's assigned to Coarse Tune will work to adjust the tuning of which ever track is visible/active.

This is a really big one for me. The ability to have discreet external controls for sooooo many parameters in Patterning is fantastic but does anyone have that many knobs? See Elastic Drums, Nanostudio and the Ruismaker apps for examples of this in the wild.

4. Ability to copy a single track layer (like probability) and paste it onto any other track/layer. So you could take the velocity from track 1 and paste it as filter cutoff for track 2.

fun.amirite?

Hold 'Clear Pattern' and touch a layer type to clear just that layer

Or some way to clear out automation on a single layer.

When switching to layer, would be handy if it defaulted to whatever you were last on instead of Velocity. Since velocity is the default for all tabs, I can't think of a reason someone would want that when they switched to the layer tab.

And, as probably already been mentioned in this monster thread: automation layers for sample start and end would be epic.

Telstar5

@benkamen : I don’t have Patterning 1 but I plan on buying Patterning 2 especially since you’re going to be adding AU3. Should I study some Patterning 1 videos to get an idea of its workflow or will Patterning 2 be different? As you said you’ll be doing some new videos so I’m not sure how much difference it’ll make anyhow . This looks killer and thank you for your efforts .

YogaDollar

Wee bit sad that there’s no additional discount for those who just bought patterning in last few weeks, quite hard to justify the additional expenditure for pre order on the app but will probably end up shelling out more in long run. Still swings and roundabouts, have had good fun playing with patterning and got one full track out of it before I saw this announced!

YogaDollar

Second thoughts, me whingeing about having just paid for patterning is a bit much, still got two months to play with it before the release of update, and if I cut down a coffee a week it’s more than paid for. Got Quantum running into Animoog as I drink my morning coffee, no work today, all is well. Could have bought a Roland TR8 just before they announced the TR8s, then I would be sad!

Carnbot

@YogaDollar Also, remember that with P2 being a separate app you'll be able to run them both at the same time

[Deleted User]

@benkamen said:
Just for the record, I'm not pretending that people don't like AUs, or that they aren't useful, or ignoring you or whatever. I just don't think Patterning makes sense as an AU instrument, so I made the conscious choice to not make it one. The question about full screen AU, I admit was silly and I apologize. Trying "fullscreen" mode with AU instruments has been unpleasant in my experience, though, so I really didn't consider it a viable option. More importantly, Patterning would actually have to lose a lot of its functionality to work as an AU instrument.

As an AU host, sure, that makes sense to me.

You will be able to change back to the v1 colors if you prefer.

I would buy a separate AU host app version of Patterning.

[Deleted User]

@Fruitbat1919 said:
MIDI Out (unless it's a MIDI only version, but I doubt that is useful in 99% situations because how many AUs would pair well with 8 midi tracks as input? Just a very few (ruismaker? any others?). MIDI makes a lot more sense in a standalone or host app. And having a MIDI only and Audio only version seems excessive. Unless hey, they are two separate paid versions? People would love me for that.....) @benkamen

The above is exactly what I want as an AU midi front end. Look at XOX in Rozeta. Your app Patterning has this lovely circular 8 track sequencer that would be a great addition to the Rozeta midi AU controllers. BM3, AUM and Cubasis all have sounds or apps that can be controlled by an 8 track sequencer or even more. Having sequences then linked together is exactly what the drum sequencers in Rozeta are already doing.

A version of Patternings circular sequencer as an AU midi make perfect sense. Yes it could and should be a completely separate app and charged for.

I can understand you not wanting to change Patterning to fit it in with the AU and AU midi concept, but to say it doesn’t make sense is (imo) a misunderstanding of the concept.

If you wish to understand anything more about how useful it would be or if I’ve just not explained it very well, I’m all up for more discussion. I really do believe their is more call for many more AU midi controllers. I really do believe your circular one would be great to drive AU midi forward.

I’m sure people here would be behind the concept and even discuss backing the idea financially too.

Yes I would gladly pay for a separate AU MIDI app version of Patterning.

handed

So would I