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Comments
@Rhism I'll see what I can put together for the example. Don't expect too much--I'm not very good. :-)
My only concern with changing chord presets mid song through a switch rather than having everything on-screen, is immediacy--it takes time to make the change, and the playing has to continue. Also, if you add the mid-song effects preset switch (which I think would be really a great idea!), then there will be two switches that potentially have to be changed between song parts. Normal guitarists use foot switches to make effects preset switch changes. I just think that the less switching that is needed, the better for the performance. As I mentioned, WI Guitar (an abandoned project that used to be pretty good) has 9 chords plus buttons that can immediately affect the 9 chords, and I think it would be a better way than pressing a button to switch chords. I hope that makes sense...
By the way, I played with the new update last night for the first time (I've been busy with work and family lately), and noticed that you brought the level up on the mute sounds! Sounds good! I like the other adjustments you did too! I'd still like the sound level brought up more on the fret changes (when you change from one chord to another). It's still a little too low. Over all, it was a fantastic patch for a fantastic update! :-)
@Ganthofer got it - custom chords will do what you're looking for, when it comes
@syrupcore I really like the random+lock general idea. I should also offer this in the guitarism performance layout via a 'random' option in the 'chords' menu (to randomize one chord at a time instead of the whole set)
MIDI In possibilities:
(1) Basic: playback your 4P recordings from an external sequencer (e.g. after editing the MIDI in the sequencer, and/or as part of a larger sequenced project)
(2) Full: play guitarism from an external controller (including things guitarism doesn't do today like pitch bend)
(3) Smart: create realistic and natural-sounding guitar tracks via a keyboard interface (trigger strums with a single key etc)
Each is progressively harder to code, gotta figure out how far I should go. Would you guys find #3 useful?
@Audiojunkie I look forward to the guitarism example
That Dirty Heads track seems doable! Actually I haven't changed the muted sounds yet but I fixed some overall volume levels (Distortion sounds wayyy better now) that probably helped - still need to boost volume on the actual samples which will help a lot.
I appreciate WI Guitar's interface for composition scenarios but I find it completely unusable for performance. The concept of 'chord modifier' buttons requires way too much cognitive load - I find myself constantly pausing and breaking my flow to play 'finger twister' and figure out the right combination of buttons I need for the next chord. It was clearly designed for composition, and it excels at that.
For performance, a single preset switch at song transition points (when the key changes, when the bridge comes in etc) wouldn't be too hard to trigger without breaking the flow. Also, it could update everything - chords, effects, techniques, heck even the guitar itself could be switched out - all with one switch. It'd definitely be the easiest and most efficient option for mid-song changes. I do worry though that it might be a lot of upfront work to set it up (essentially multiple complete presets for a single song) and it might take some of the fun and spontaneity out from the performance to have a single preset switch rather than individual toggles on effects, chords etc. So gotta figure out if a single preset switch is better or having individual toggles for effects, key change, 4p streams etc.
@Rhism said:
@Rhism I would find this extremely useful. Although I have yet to find keyboard strumming that sounded realistic in IOS.
@Rhism I agree with you regarding the WI Guitar's interface for composition vs performance. The main thing I would like so far, would be for composition (with performance being secondary). I find 6 chords to be adequate for a lot of songs, but 9 configurable chords would probably be a lot better.
Also on the subject of configurable chords, I remember reading earlier that someone requested the ability to mute strings within the chords. I'm not at work, so I'm not able to check, but I think that custom chord design which allows choosing which strings play and which strings mute would be really cool!
I love this app, and trust you'll find the best balance!
By the way, do I understand correctly that you are thinking of having two playing modes (composition and performance)?
@rhism said
MIDI In possibilities:
I would find (3) useful for situations like triggering from the chordion grid. But in general, your difficulty scale matches my priority/preference scale in the right direction! That is, (1) would get used the most, (3) the least.
(2) is interesting on its own because writing strumming patterns into a piano roll or playing the live on a keyboard is hard! Could you explain more how you envision people using that?
I'd certainly be interested in being able to modify 4P tracks through (1) and (2). Perhaps even to keep using them as backing tracks in new songs.
(3) might be useful as a composition tool, but couldn't something like this be accomplished by (2) as well?
What exactly do you mean by "smart"? Would it be able to insert slight varations in each strum, or different voicings, secondary chords or something like that? Do you intend to create your own keyboard interface, with ways of performing palm mutes and such? It could become a whole new app.
I think 1, 2, and 3 are all midi in.
@Audiojunkie Yep thinking of composition mode as a completely separate mode or possibly a separate app altogether. And yes, custom chords would definitely allow you to mute individual strings as part of the chord specification.
@syrupcore @mmp I think my description of (2) was a bit confusing. (1) and (2) are basically the same thing - you send in a note via MIDI, and guitarism plays that note. (2) just adds pitch bend and perhaps a larger range of notes, as these things are expected in a general-purpose sample player app like ThumbJam, SampleTank, BS-16 etc.
(3) is the "different" thing and could be a completely separate app. The idea being to design some kind of keyboard-based interface to do strumming that sounds natural and realistic, with all the advanced techniques that guitarism has today and will add in the future. Like @mgmg4871 said I'm not sure if it's possible to do this well, but maybe worth a try. The question is whether people would even want this. It'd be for people who are more comfortable interfacing with a keyboard than a touch screen... or perhaps they use their iPad as a sound module and don't really ever play directly on it. Someone on the KVR forum made this request so I've had it in my head since then but I don't know if it's interesting to others.
I'd be interested in #3, but what I've heard of triggered strumming in the past falls short.
I'd be interested in 3 if it was tempo based, had a set of common and perhaps uncommon strum styles and allowed me to add my own. I hit CM7 on my keyboard (or chordion et al) and guitarism strums a CM7 with the strum I selected at the tempo I set. The trick, I think, to making this 'just work' is that the strum and tempo are constant so that when I hit Am a little late the strum doesn't start over but settles in at the right time. Like, the strum is always on but you only hear it when notes are sent in. Hope I'm making sense!
Thanks for describing 2 more. I'm not that interested in pitch bend and an extended range. I'm interested in fixing my live playing flubs (#1) and exploring song ideas via alternative interfaces (#3). Though, it seems to me that the best use of #3 is actually for non-songwriters in the more traditional 'auto accompaniment' sense. As in, I'd definitely use it on occasion but I hope you'd spend your marketing dollars letting not-me know about it. And, really, making design decisions with the auto accompaniment user in mind instead of song writers. Think it could be pretty awesome.
I'm imaging a scenario right now where you work with the funkbox team and actually turn #3 into a separate band-in-a-box type app where certain strums are mapped (by default anyway) to complimentary rhythms and possibly basslines. Since you already have the kick ass guitar sound engine, it would only (ha!) require the tempo/strumming engine to make it completely unrestricted with regards to tempo and key (vs the sample based versions of this). All that said, no idea if there is an actual market out there for that.
@syrupcore My thinking is along the lines of live play. Instead of playing each note (which is hard from a keyboard) it'd be about playing each strum. So it wouldn't actually address your Chordion scenario at all.
Auto-accompaniment type stuff is a whole 'nother ball game. I'd probably look into this more when I start lead guitarism, as it makes most sense for backing tracks not the main instrument you're playing.
We all know you're just posting this gibberish to help push the thread over the millennium mark
@sonosaurus said:
Not just him.
Join in why don'tcha
oh right you just did...
I'll add one to the pile. I'm not a guitarist (or guitarismist!) but I love the app anyway and have all the IAPs because you rock. Keep it up.
@Audiojunkie if somebody can make a guitar app that makes me play Rhythm Guitar like Nile Rodgers, I'm buying it!
Yawn...........ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
@Rhism said:
I never run into that situation when composing. The basic chords you have in Guitarism are plenty for me.
@Rhism If you have the updated Looptical, take a look at the updated guitar interface.
@mgmg4871 Just tried it out - the 7x2 chord grid with strings along the bottom, right? Is that a good layout for you?
@jfeheley I hear ya - 99% of music seems just fine sticking with those 6 primary chords
But I guess I also know the feeling of wanting to try an off-key chord during the songwriting process, just to know how it fits within the progression even if I end up not using it.
@Rhism Yes, that is a good layout.
@mgmg4871 Can you elaborate on what you like about it?
I have tremendous respect for Looptical (one guy made a GB replacement!) but I find the guitar interface awkward for multiple reasons:
1) Horizontal strumming feels wrong and is ergonomically weak
2) With chords above the strings, when you're reaching for the top-right chord box your chord hand has to do a lot of work to stay out of your strumming hand's way (either arching over the strumming hand or curling around the sides and top of the iPad)
Layout-wise the 7x2 grid doesn't work at all for performance (too much movement needed). I don't think it's designed for composition either since you have to specify each chord, it doesn't have any live-modifiers like in WI Guitar, and no auto-layout options like in Chordion. It's designed for recording something that you know the chords to, and aside from the above 2 gripes it works well for that. So perhaps Recording is another valid scenario (separate from Performance and Composition). Though I'm finding that Composition may address Recording too (and so does Performance for the most part).
@Rhism My iPad is set at an angle in the stand, with one hand over the top of screen, while I change chords with my thumb. The strumming hand, or should I say finger, is at the bottom of screen. I have no issue with either hand blocking the other. Also, the strumming hand does not have to be visible, even as I think it has to be visible on a real guitar. I am not a guitar player, per say, so, I have not been trained to strum in any certain way, and I guess that may be the reason it does not feel wrong to me, or ergonomically weak. I do not use it for performance, just for recording and composition. I would think, whether composing, or recording, that chords are known, and set beforehand. I do agree that improvements, like live modifiers, and auto layout options would make it better.
@mgmg4871 The raised angle should definitely fix the arms crossing issue. I can also see a pretty good posture if you have the ipad on the desk but turned 90 degrees counter-clockwise so the chords are along the left and the strings along the right.
In theory ergonomics should be a universal 'human body' thing
Do you usually stick with slower strums and short sessions when strumming on Looptical? I'd think that a horizontal layout wouldn't work at all for fast syncopated rhythms (like @audiojunkie wants to do), and would generally be tiring over a long session. The guitarism vertical strum has ergonomics issues too - ergonomically-best options are the 'like a guitar' hold or the 'on the table' diagonal angle that @mmp and I were discussing. Actually can you try that diagonal position? Would love to hear how this feels for you:
1) Rotate your iPad 45 degrees clockwise (so it's at an angle to you, and the bottom-right corner points at your body)
2) Bring your left hand up from the bottom of the iPad (but at an angle to your body) to reach the chord buttons
3) Bring your right hand over to the strings by reaching over the right edge of the iPad (also at an angle to your body)
Now both your hands would be pointed inwards relative to your body, with your left arm aligned vertically relative to the iPad, and the right arm aligned horizontally (parallel to the strings). How does this feel wrt comfort and playability?
Guitarism v3.22 submitted to Apple for review. It fixes all the crashes that people were running into, and performs much better on older devices. No new functionality - this one just focuses on crashes, stability and performance.
And in other news... guitarism will support State Saving in AB2
Woohoo!!! Awesome news @Rhism!!! By the way, sorry I haven't had a chance to do the sound demo (attempt) of the Dirty Heads song... Work has gotten busy the last few days. :-)
Yes, great news @Rhism, thanks,
@Rhism said:
Excellent!
Excellent - your support for Guitarism is exemplary!