Roland Zenbeats by Roland Corporation (Auv3)

MatthewAtZenbeats

@plopseaw

Thanks for the feedback. Can you expand on "Real Midi Routing" and what you want to do with it?

@plopseaw said:
Agreed.

1) Sidechain support
2) Real midi routing
3) Midi preview and definitely improvements to midi editor (ghost track, scales, map to chord track etc)

Actually, this is an inspiring DAW. I came from cubasis (and of course the desktop) which is really good but the workflow in Zenbeats and the musicality makes me come back to it much more often.

The drum machine and its sequencer is really good. The fact that you can preview audio loops in real time and at the correct tempo is great. The automation system is great allowing to easily select from automatable parameters. Freeze works like magic (Cubasis its a different result every time)

The look of it is subjective (I like it) and at the end of the day its about using the tools you have at hand. Even with my wish list, its not going to stop me using Zenbeats everyday and hoping it stays around for many years.

Any finally I have great experience with Ramond in support and Matthew is here actively discussing. Thats quite rare!

MatthewAtZenbeats

@0tolerance4silence said:
I’m not target here, but I’ll play… my list would be easy to deliver…

• no account to get into the app
• no ever changing splash screen for ‘whatever’ reason
• colours / contrast - I mean, I personally can’t even look at most AIRA line, even now that it was dialled back significantly… is there a person who thinks it’s a winner look, the best I heard is tolerable… well, ZB is consistent on that…

Thanks for the feedback here. Some notes/questions below.

Account Requirements:
With our cross-platform approach and purchase syncing, an account is and will always be a requirement.

Splash Screens:
We added an alternating splash screen in Zenbeats 2.1 to show off new features. That may be something we do for next version or we could just stick with one (like we currently have with Zentracker. I'm curious as to why that's viewed as a negative. Care to explain?

Colors/Contrast:
I know making everyone happy with the default look will be impossible, but from your perspective, what are some apps that are appealing to you? Are there any color schemes in Zenbeats that are close?

krassmann

@MatthewAtZenbeats said:
@krassmann I like the idea of giving the user some control over this as well, but I'm betting most users (including you) would rather see more fun/functional features come out first. Correct me if I'm wrong, of course. :-)

Yes, you are right. The audio routing or crossfade feature is definitely higher on my wishlist. I just thought this could be probably a relatively low hanging fruit to externalize the style configuration. This would enable users to hack their own styles into this config. Atom 2 is doing it in this way. I agree that a UI for style editing is a lot of work.

Another feature that I would rank higher is multicore audio rendering. It’s simply amazing on my new M1 iPad Pro how much Cubasis‘ multicore rendering boosted its performance. I can suddenly run 3-4 times more plugins or tracks when multicore rendering is turned on. But I guess this is a hard one to do right. I think Steinberg did benefit from their Cubase code in this matter.

MatthewAtZenbeats

@krassmann said:

@MatthewAtZenbeats said:
@krassmann I like the idea of giving the user some control over this as well, but I'm betting most users (including you) would rather see more fun/functional features come out first. Correct me if I'm wrong, of course. :-)

Yes, you are right. The audio routing or crossfade feature is definitely higher on my wishlist. I just thought this could be probably a relatively low hanging fruit to externalize the style configuration. This would enable users to hack their own styles into this config. Atom 2 is doing it in this way. I agree that a UI for style editing is a lot of work.

Another feature that I would rank higher is multicore audio rendering. It’s simply amazing on my new M1 iPad Pro how much Cubasis‘ multicore rendering boosted its performance. I can suddenly run 3-4 times more plugins or tracks when multicore rendering is turned on. But I guess this is a hard one to do right. I think Steinberg did benefit from their Cubase code in this matter.

So to sum up your top 3

1. Audio routing/sidechaining
2. Crossfading
3. Multicore Processing on M1

We experimented with multicore support on the standard A series chips and found our app worked much better with it off. We'll look at it again on the M1 iPad.

michael_m

@0tolerance4silence said:
I’m not target here, but I’ll play… my list would be easy to deliver…

• no account to get into the app
• no ever changing splash screen for ‘whatever’ reason
• colours / contrast - I mean, I personally can’t even look at most AIRA line, even now that it was dialled back significantly… is there a person who thinks it’s a winner look, the best I heard is tolerable… well, ZB is consistent on that…

Definitely agree on the first one. I have an Apple ID - why can’t that handle access and IAPs like every other app?

Jeezs

@MatthewAtZenbeats said:
@plopseaw

Thanks for the feedback. Can you expand on "Real Midi Routing" and what you want to do with it?

@plopseaw said:
Agreed.

1) Sidechain support
2) Real midi routing
3) Midi preview and definitely improvements to midi editor (ghost track, scales, map to chord track etc)

Actually, this is an inspiring DAW. I came from cubasis (and of course the desktop) which is really good but the workflow in Zenbeats and the musicality makes me come back to it much more often.

The drum machine and its sequencer is really good. The fact that you can preview audio loops in real time and at the correct tempo is great. The automation system is great allowing to easily select from automatable parameters. Freeze works like magic (Cubasis its a different result every time)

The look of it is subjective (I like it) and at the end of the day its about using the tools you have at hand. Even with my wish list, its not going to stop me using Zenbeats everyday and hoping it stays around for many years.

Any finally I have great experience with Ramond in support and Matthew is here actively discussing. Thats quite rare!

I think he wants to be able to route midi auv3 and plugins to any other auv3 plugins as AUM does.
Per example an AUV3 plugins can send midi to external hardware.
At least that’s what I’d really like to be able to do in Zenbeats .
Maybe he can confirm.

wim

@michael_m said:
Definitely agree on the first one. I have an Apple ID - why can’t that handle access and IAPs like every other app?

Because many Zenbeats purchases are available cross-platform for one thing. Apple ID does no good on Windows and Android.

plopseaw

For the midi routing Jeezs sums it up well for me.

Also some auv3 have virtual midi ports like LK and helium.

In Cubasis you can see these midi ports and use them to route the output from LK clips to different instruments on different tracks.

Then one instance of LK or Helium etc can drive all the other tracks. That would great!

tahiche

@MatthewAtZenbeats said:

@krassmann said:

@MatthewAtZenbeats said:
@krassmann I like the idea of giving the user some control over this as well, but I'm betting most users (including you) would rather see more fun/functional features come out first. Correct me if I'm wrong, of course. :-)

Yes, you are right. The audio routing or crossfade feature is definitely higher on my wishlist. I just thought this could be probably a relatively low hanging fruit to externalize the style configuration. This would enable users to hack their own styles into this config. Atom 2 is doing it in this way. I agree that a UI for style editing is a lot of work.

Another feature that I would rank higher is multicore audio rendering. It’s simply amazing on my new M1 iPad Pro how much Cubasis‘ multicore rendering boosted its performance. I can suddenly run 3-4 times more plugins or tracks when multicore rendering is turned on. But I guess this is a hard one to do right. I think Steinberg did benefit from their Cubase code in this matter.

So to sum up your top 3

1. Audio routing/sidechaining
2. Crossfading
3. Multicore Processing on M1

We experimented with multicore support on the standard A series chips and found our app worked much better with it off. We'll look at it again on the M1 iPad.

If I may add to the wishlist:
Biggies:

• audio routing +1: groups, sidechain, buses to rule them all!
• A “chance” option for hits on the drum sequencer, which is absolutely stellar.

Little ones:

• an option to clear everything on the timeline. When you’re recording live from clips and want to start over and there’s stuff left behind from your previous take.
• More options for midi learn. Allow notes besides CCs.
• Record automation from plugin ui.

Cheers!

brambos

I have submitted an update for Gauss which should fix the issue hopefully. Waiting for the Apple review team to let it through.

Schmotown

@brambos said:
I have submitted an update for Gauss which should fix the issue hopefully. Waiting for the Apple review team to let it through.

Thanks @brambos First time I can recall one of your apps behaving strangely. They always seem to work perfectly in any host.

brambos

@Schmotown said:

@brambos said:
I have submitted an update for Gauss which should fix the issue hopefully. Waiting for the Apple review team to let it through.

Thanks @brambos First time I can recall one of your apps behaving strangely. They always seem to work perfectly in any host.

Yep, it was a combination of an overzealous but usually safe optimization on my end and an unconventional (but valid) thing that only Zenbeats does which led to this. If this was indeed the issue, it was an easy fix though

Korakios

@MatthewAtZenbeats said:
What are your top 3 features you'd like to see in the future for Zenbeats?

1. Record AU Automation
2. Note/Step Probability
3. Sampler/Slicer

and some minor improvements such as

• weird scrolling when selecting plugins
• random cpu spikes when drawing automation (also sometimes it doesn't apply to steps on the drum module)
• if you draw automation such as filter and want to change some section it's really painful to redraw since older points persist (maybe I should upload a video if it doesn't make sense)
• I love the fact that new clips don't have predefined length , but in some cases holding the plus icon or when a clip is empty it would be nice to select the number of bars (edit maybe there is some "duplicate length" function I missed)

anickt

@Korakios said:

@MatthewAtZenbeats said:
What are your top 3 features you'd like to see in the future for Zenbeats?

1. Record AU Automation
2. Note/Step Probability
3. Sampler/Slicer

and some minor improvements such as

• if you draw automation such as filter and want to change some section it's really painful to redraw since older points persist (maybe I should upload a video if it doesn't make sense)

If you are using the paintbrush and dragging to create automation, don’t! Use the paint brush and tap where you want your keyframes. Much easier to edit. Plus you can get Bézier curves by dragging the solid dots between the keyframes (circles).

tahiche

Since @MatthewAtZenbeats Asked us Zenbeats users to test Zentracker since some features might be incorporated into ZB, I’m doing so.
There’s some useful stuff.

• I like the rewind/FF buttons. In ZB you could probably fit them fine if they omit the “save song” text and just leave the “save” icon (change the folder one for a diskette?).

• I love the popup tools. A lot better than long pressing. I really encourage to move away from long pressing as much as possible. And if there is long pressing on an element, clearly mark it with some icon or graphical element. It’s terrible to long press stuff in vain just to see if there’s something there… BUT this popup menu stopped working at first, then disappeared and I had to restart Zentracker.
  

• the audio editor has a far better layout. Nice one!

• One of my favorite features in Zentracker is that you can access the audio editor sidebar menu from the arranger. - - Also the “regions” feature seems really cool, you can choose different loops and/or parts in an audio and easily switch instances without having to copy/paste or edit again… could be a handy tool to easily add variations, drum fills…
  

• Also dig the timeline display on top, it’s clearer than in ZB.

I just realized you can’t drag the play head handle in Zentracker. You should, specially on touch screens where you don’t know the exact position until you’ve pressed. Actually the playhead/cursor position is a bit confusing in both…

Onto design and UI… I won’t go (again) into what’s ugly or not. I don’t like the color options. For me the 2 options are “Too much contrast” (night theme) or “waaaay too much contrast” (daylight theme). I can identify at first look 6 different shades of gray plus the orange icon on selected track (why orange?) , the color of the tracks… IMO it’s not “glued”, seems a bit arbitrary in what color goes where…. Why is the “solo” button a different gray than the automation one?. If it’s on purpose, it’s not “different enough” to point out relevance or action type….

So there’s actually some interesting stuff going on!. 👏

Telstar5

I like the yellow-green and grey contrast though!

MAtrixplan

I would like to bounce to audio freezed track from exported from PC track.
Is this possible to implement? @MatthewAtZenbeats
With freezed track is impossible to change anything.

tahiche

Forgot to point out these Zentracker changes…

• there’s a visual indicator on the track input (down arrow) of a sub-menu. Very nice. As I said before, the ui should give clues of where to press or not…
• The track controls “expander” also features a little arrow, a lot clearer as to what It does than in ZB.
• The “auto zoomer” (bottom right) feature is very handy when you’re zoomed in a detail and want to get back quickly to a global view.
• I like how the “track, fx and send” views are separated and ready available via the sidebar buttons, and how that is consistent in the mixer view.
  

Again, more on design choices that I don’t quite get…

• If everything is 2D… Why is the track fader 3D?. It’s little details like this that make it look less coherent.
• there’s an outer ring on the pan knob that’s exactly the same color and width as the knob indicator itself. To me it just adds clutter. Plus it’s a different border width than the other ui buttons (for which I don’t see the need for a border anyway).
  This is probably subjective, but when you add up all these little things it makes the app less “cohesive”. And this is the same with ZB. And again, this is not a matter of ugly or not.
  I’m probably insisting too much, but being able to personalize the ui (css theme) would take care of some of these things…

michael_m

@wim said:

@michael_m said:
Definitely agree on the first one. I have an Apple ID - why can’t that handle access and IAPs like every other app?

Because many Zenbeats purchases are available cross-platform for one thing. Apple ID does no good on Windows and Android.

Ah, right. I didn’t even think about other platforms.

DMfan

@tahiche said:
Forgot to point out these Zentracker changes…

• there’s a visual indicator on the track input (down arrow) of a sub-menu. Very nice. As I said before, the ui should give clues of where to press or not…
• The track controls “expander” also features a little arrow, a lot clearer as to what It does than in ZB.
• The “auto zoomer” (bottom right) feature is very handy when you’re zoomed in a detail and want to get back quickly to a global view.
• I like how the “track, fx and send” views are separated and ready available via the sidebar buttons, and how that is consistent in the mixer view.
  

Again, more on design choices that I don’t quite get…

• If everything is 2D… Why is the track fader 3D?. It’s little details like this that make it look less coherent.
• there’s an outer ring on the pan knob that’s exactly the same color and width as the knob indicator itself. To me it just adds clutter. Plus it’s a different border width than the other ui buttons (for which I don’t see the need for a border anyway).
  This is probably subjective, but when you add up all these little things it makes the app less “cohesive”. And this is the same with ZB. And again, this is not a matter of ugly or not.
  I’m probably insisting too much, but being able to personalize the ui (css theme) would take care of some of these things…

I find both of your posts very spot on about looks and functions.

+1

Aiming for better functionality and a more cohesive look making the UI look more ”pro” is IMO though far more important than personalizing the UI.

/DMfan🇸🇪

MatthewAtZenbeats

Thanks @Everyone This is immensely helpful!

wim

@tahiche - awesome. I wasn't paying much attention to ZenTracker so I didn't feel any pull to try it out. Your post has totally interested me in trying it out and gleaning the features I'd most like to see incorporated into ZenBeats.

tahiche

Probably stupid question…
Can you record into multiple clips at the same time in loop view?. From different sources, like a guitar and a vocal mic, 2 sources into 2 diff loops at once.
Cheers!

dobbs

when opening zenbeats, there's just one small thing that always bugs me a bit. It's the very first thing I see when opening zenbeats. The start screen. with these HUGE icons. That just kind of looks like it was designed for a phone screen. their size is just out of proportion and it just doesn't fit the style of the rest of the app...

(ipad mini)

Tones4Christ

Hi everyone, I’ve been out the loop here for a while. So happy to be alive! This COVID19 almost took me home to be with the Lord Jesus Christ! But it wasn’t my time yet thank God because I wanna make more music! And because now I’m a brand new Grandpa! Baby precious little girl! Best thanksgiving ever!

Well, been leading worship at my church and i wanted to create my own tracks to accompany my songs when I don’t have other musicians available. I considered the Prime App from Loop Community but the tracks are expensive and i can play my own instruments.

How does Zenbeats compare? Is anyone out there using it as your main app to record your worship tracks?

Is there a way to fade from one song to the other in a “Live” situation? I think Prime does that and it would really rock especially when leading worship live at church.

My recordings would be basic like background vocals, bass, drums/Cajon, Keys and Electric guitar.

Love being back guys! Missed a lot! But it’s great to be alive! All honor and praise to God. Amen! ❤️🙏☝️🎸

MAtrixplan

@Tones4Christ said:
Hi everyone, I’ve been out the loop here for a while. So happy to be alive! This COVID19 almost took me home to be with the Lord Jesus Christ! But it wasn’t my time yet thank God because I wanna make more music! And because now I’m a brand new Grandpa! Baby precious little girl! Best thanksgiving ever!

Well, been leading worship at my church and i wanted to create my own tracks to accompany my songs when I don’t have other musicians available. I considered the Prime App from Loop Community but the tracks are expensive and i can play my own instruments.

How does Zenbeats compare? Is anyone out there using it as your main app to record your worship tracks?

Is there a way to fade from one song to the other in a “Live” situation? I think Prime does that and it would really rock especially when leading worship live at church.

My recordings would be basic like background vocals, bass, drums/Cajon, Keys and Electric guitar.

Love being back guys! Missed a lot! But it’s great to be alive! All honor and praise to God. Amen! ❤️🙏☝️🎸

It looks like only prime app supports multitracks with transitions from one song to another. Check also Kaystage and also Camelot pro - this guys makes really advanced soft but not so simple as Prime from LC.

wim

Hey @Tones4Christ - welcome back. I was wondering where you had been. I'm glad for our sakes you didn't graduate just yet.
Zenbeats probably isn't a great tool for what you want to do. It doesn't cross fade between songs, and you would have a significant loading time between them.

Would you be working with a single audio file for each backing track, or would you want to control each instrument part separately (i.e. volume and mutes)? Do you need to be able to control different song sections (for instance, repeating a chorus a few extra times), or just play straight through every time? Is song order fixed or does it need to be flexible? There are probably other questions you'll need to be sure that the target application supports as well.

Tones4Christ

Thanks @MAtrixplan & @wim !

Yeah, thanks brother! It was scary when lungs felt on fire and chest tight but thank God i never had problem breathing. All vaccinated now for the long haul i hope.❤️🙏☝️

Yeah, there are so many variables. I think if anything then it would be best to use the app as is to record all my songs. Export the stems and load them up to Prime for playing back live! I think i need to dig deeper into how i can make all this work. I was trying to avoid having to upload all my tracks to Prime and paying monthly hosting costs.

Most of my song order is usually fixed since we’re on a time schedule for the worship set. But muting tracks definitely in case i have an available musician to play a certain instrument. But I’m currently just pondering all my options.

Thanks guys!

wim

@Tones4Christ said:
But I’m currently just pondering all my options.

Thanks guys!

Yeh, something that I've pondered (and not solved) many, many times. I don't need to worry about all those questions any more but it was tough when I did.

Rendering to audio is the safest option - less to go wrong. I haven't kept up with options, but Camelot Pro and Keystage seem to be the ones talked about the most.

Tones4Christ

@wim Thanks! Will check those out. ☝️