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Behringer - Please think at least twice before buying anything from them
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Hey, internet tough guy, your projection is kind of hilariously obvious.
Don’t be such a dickist and also don’t be a flakist.
We are all earthlings and should tolerate each other. (I hope this doesn’t make me a planetist)
No offense to other inhabitants of the multiverse (virtual & physical)
I saw the video and no way would i ever think about antisemitic because of a long nose or what?!?
Really people get so fast offended these days.
Some people just searching for something to be offended.
Beside that Behringer bringing affordable hardware to the folks.
Make it better if you can. Overpriced Moog?
Welcome to the new world.
Fair enough although we should now probably note that Kirn hasn’t said a word about any of this*. People are angry on his behalf, which has gotten very very loud because we’re all on the Internet.
*I use DuckDuckGo so my cursory “check to make sure nothing has changed since this morning” may not count for much.
Peter Kirn is a good guy and has during his career been very supportive of tiny developers and interesting musicians. I find it weird that people defend the "prank" because they don't like the tone of his writing.
I doubt many here would feel good about a big company producing a video making fun of you.
I find it strange that people are defending big company trying to bully him and treating Uli's semi-apology as somehow being an indication of good faith. The apology only came about as the result of a lot of outrage against Behringer. That they went as far as applying for a trademark is a sign that this wasn't just a rogue prank by an individual.
For those unaware of Behringer's history of bullying critics, his lawsuit against Dave Smith Instruments is worth reading about.
Totally agree with every single word you wrote. Thanks for healthy opinions on this !
People who saw antisemitism in that yoke should seriously think about themselves and clean up mess in their heads.
All I read in that Tweet was "Sorry not sorry".
I don’t really care about the whole thing, but I did find it funny that Uli threw the marketing team under the bus
A silly move, just giving haters, more hate, around and around.
I hear this sort of ‘free speech’ defence a lot these days, as if there’s a special ‘political correctness gone mad police force’ on constant guard to spoil the good ole boys fun.
I’m probably older than you, grew up in a very rough neck of the gutter, and I don’t remember any time in the past where offence was acceptable.
With all the crap that’s currently flying around the planet, we need more kindness, not less.
Stupid move by Behringer. Really childish. But I don't want to be told how I should react to it. Thinking about it is fine though, so good for bringing it to our attention.
To me the long nose implies sniffing, or maybe lying, Pinocchio style. I don't think the anti-semitic charge flies, even though I realise anti semitic sentiment is around, probably growing, on both right and left wing. That seems like a woke knee-jerk reaction... everyone's a racist, everyone's a whatever-ist or -phobe, to the point where the accusations mean hardly anything.
It would feel pretty weird having a big company singling you out like this, in such a personal way though. Pretty strange how they can misread what people would think of it.
I hadn’t seen this before, but have to admit I found it funny. Many synth heads are pretty snobbish.
I’ve always been unsure how to feel about Behringer, as all the gear I used to have from them had issues very quickly. The problem is so has hardware from many other companies like Novation. Further to that though, what about my Waldorf gear? Riddled with software bugs and the keybeds started to fall apart, so was price / build relations really what I thought. I was pretty careful with my gear, but the truth is that nothing is made to the same degree of hard wearing as it used to be and no one would care to pay the prices if it were!
However I do feel for companies like Roland and Moog that have the reputation of their past products so easily used by another company that didn’t have to earn its knowledge to arrive at that point. While no doubt legal and beneficial to some, there must at least be a conversation to be had over the ethics of such blatant copies - companies barely even try to hide the copying anymore.
Cheap, cheap, cheap, copy, copy, copy, low wages, low wages, low wages....great for us consumers, but definitely not great in how it cheapens many things, including ourselves as human beings.
So yeah, slightly off track there
Yeah, I think it was funny. Was the name thing too far? Why make it so personal, when the message could have been delivered in a similar way without actually making it a personal fight - that was probably unwise.
As for the shouts of ‘anti this’ and ‘hurt feelings that’, I care little for protecting people who try to hurt others, but it’s just the way it has to be because otherwise we lose our freedoms. Took me most of my 50 years to get to the stage where I truly believe in freedom of speech at all costs and however much some harm can come from speech. Took myself quite a wrestle with my nature that has had to cope with a fair bit of bullying myself. But, I came out the other side stronger. I now choose myself if some wanker Is allowed to offend me with their words. I may get a little angry at times, which is perfectly normal, because that is my brain warning me. I do however have every confidence in myself to be able to turn off a website and turn off any continuing thoughts regarding any lingering words that may have gained a reaction - as that reaction can be helpful at first, but as in any form of overthinking, it can be controlled in many ways.
So while it’s easy to jump to sides possibly based on other issues quite commonly discussed these days - that of ‘snowflakes’, the rise of ‘woke’ culture and the societal swing towards playing the victim for ‘progressive points’, I’m unsure if this incident is really worthy of much recognition in context of the bigger picture. As my favourite you tube series currently would attest - will it be hard to not care about this in an hour? Of course not, it will be ‘Super easy - barely an inconvenience!’
Fair enough. For the record, I was referring to the reaction to it, not the doing of it. I feel like people could take a joke better in the past, and so life was more fun. If that video was directed at me I’d be laughing right along with it.
If someone pulled that trademark thing on me though, I’d be contacting my lawyer.
I was just trolling. I honestly don’t give a rip about the whole thing anyway.
I figure this childish behavior by Behringer isn’t going to set an example legit companies will follow. Responding to your critics like this is just embarrassing, except maybe to other children. I find it a curiosity more than an outrage.
I haven't seen the video, don't want to, so my comments are a response to your comments in a general sense.
Depends whether it's actually intended as a joke, or something a bit less friendly. Depends on the person on the receiving end of the 'joke', and whether they're as capable as absorbing the impact as you are.
Lots of people have issues with anxiety, and lack of self-confidence. Different sensitivities, different things we might be having to deal with at the time.
Ohhhh. K.
If it's someone you know really well, someone you know will actually find it funny and laugh along with you, then sure. But if it's someone you don't actually know, on the internet for example, be kind.
I kind of think of this a bit like the (imo) poorly judged razor advert by a certain major razor manufacturer of late. Maybe in their thoughts, they could see fists in the air and the shout of ‘we are fighting for the common man’, while in all honesty, I personally would prefer companies just be honest with themselves and us - they are pretty much in it for the money from a business perspective. They should be honest that ‘hey, we are building cheap stuff that’s not half bad, but what do you expect at the price. We are also making stuff this price by using cheap Labour and lets be honest, so are our expensive competitors! We get annoyed by these synth snobs as we want everyone to buy our gear, as that’s how we make more money to keep our investors happy and make more money.’
Would the honest approach work? No way! Lol so until I have the moralistic and slightly self restricting stance to stop buying shit from all these companies that care little for me beyond separating me from my money, I will just continue to do what I do as far as purchasing goes - buy what I can get the most out of until a company pisses me off enough so that I reconsider giving them my money. While this wouldn’t stop me buying from Behringer, my past experiences of shoddy build quality makes me at least think twice
Yep, I am all consumer lol
I never knew who Peter Kirn was until this so Behringer have raised his profile a bit !
In other news
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/mar/02/comedian-joe-lycett-changes-name-to-hugo-boss-in-swipe-at-fashion-house
as much as i dislike behringer marketing team my only gripe with behringer is that they don‘t give credit to the original developers as much as they should *see @ 21.50
but the cork sniffer was hilarious and ulli should not have apologized.
i can‘t stand this cancel culture.
you need love to roast someone.
and kirn does not mind. he has got a boost on his website through this.
couldn‘t have asked for a better publicity.
ok, but now they should rerelease that video.
or better even, make that product real.
Behringer wasn’t forced to cancel anything or apologize. People responded because they either liked the video, didn’t like it, thought it was hilarious, thought it was really not that funny, thought it was childish, thought it was warranted, thought it was bad form for a company to respond to criticism like a grade schooler, etc… Behringer apparently took all that in and decided it wasn’t a good look for their company.
It’s really people who want Behringer to be able to post whatever they like without a public response who are the most fragile snowflakes.
I’m going to buy all eurorack stuff from Behringer to show my support about this.
Interesting this one. Cancel Culture is a term that has been going through somewhat of a change of late. Same with the term Call Out Culture. They are steadily changing their most commonly accepted meanings in the process of being used by differing groups. So, in essence, you are both right.
It’s no wonder we all have so many disagreements online when even the basic terms we use have so differing meanings from group to group that no one can really make sense of it all.
Individual words have always changed over time. Some words come to mean almost the complete opposite of their original use. The fact is though that the meaning of words is changing so fast these days that people of many groups can’t keep up - it has been shown that their is often intent behind this, as it presents one group with considerable advantage over another group. That’s why it is so dangerous that society seems to be making intent of less importance legally. Intent really is one of the few ways it’s still possible to differentiate between one persons use of words and anothers.
What makes this attack on Peter (a 100% nice dude) particularly insidious is that it is already the fourth jab Behringer takes at him. This is more than an accidental slip-up of the marketing department; this is a nasty personal vendetta of Behringer against a single person who has been very fair in his reporting about things (going out of his way to bring each story in the most balanced and considered way possible).
I really can't believe that B-apologists are trying to 'both-sides' this thinly veiled attack or are putting it down as hyper-sensitivity of people who are shocked at this behavior.
This is at best a very conscious low-blow, and possibly something much worse. But I guess cheap consumer products are more important than morals these days.
Very well said.
Personally while taking pot shots at individuals is not nice, it can be quite easily seen for what it is and at least gives the choice of the individual ourselves to decide if we want to do business with that firm or not. I dislike Behringer much more for actually trying to silence their critics via legal means. Why? Because we all have the ability to throw up a middle finger in this day and age. While the playing field may still be slightly in favour of the money business, individuals have much power on social media these days, as issues of Cancel Culture, Twitter Mobs and such like have shown. Power can be manipulated in many forms and by many groups these days - having money is not the only proposition to wield it needed, although it still helps greatly.
For fighting for justice, it’s been shown of late that justice is often just a rallying cry for selfish needs and right and wrong are usually just shades of grey flags waved by the current social narrative of the day. Who’s right? Who knows. I’m pretty sure I know Much less than half the truth of the matter. I know not all big businesses are always wrong or innately evil. I know not all internet opinion sellers are just and righteous. I also know that enough people have smelly shit, buts that pretending that we can’t smell the flowers because of it is a tad disingenuous. I care little for Behringer, but I care little for most the so called ‘news’ peddlers of this age unless I personally know them. The so called reporters of this day and age are pretty much transparent when it comes to hiding their agendas - sell their work at all costs, just like Behringer really.
Not saying that the person involved in this incident is not one of the few really honest and moral news men of the day and that he isn’t getting shafted, but I am saying that these childish actions (that we all do at times) is less harmful in my opinion than how Behringer has tried to silence opinion, even if that opinion is not always expressed for the most wholesome purposes - shit I must becoming a true free speech advocate after all ahaha
Compare the image to the 'Happy Merchant' anti-semitic caricature and you'll see that the position of the hands and the person's expression are a BLATANT reference. You have to be registered blind not to see it.
>
Yep. It seems people these days are more concerned with championing the ‘free speech’ rights of those who wish to ridicule, bully, and insult others, rather than the rights and feelings of those on the receiving end.
Punching down is never a good look.
This 100%
Peter Kirn runs the site createdigitalmusic - you should check it out, it's pretty good. He's also friends with Mouse on Mars, the Elastic Drums developer and other developers in Berlin. He's a decent enough guy.
I don't know the man, but he's never really struck me as someone who wanted, or sought, notoriety. He had a run in with Behringer one time before, and he seemed more weirded out by it than anything.
I don't have an issue with Behringer as a company (or at least no more than I do with any other capitalist firm, Apple included). In their own way they're a pretty innovative company (working out how to mass produce previously boutique products cheaply is innovation). But this kind of stupidity just seems like thin skinned bullying. He's a blogger who makes techno for god's sake.
There certainly seems to be antisemitic overtones in the image. Kirn is a Jewish surname, and compare this antisemitic cartoon of the beard, big nose, wild eyes, sinister grin and money grabbing hands with the Illustration on the synth mock up, they are disturbingly similar.
I really doubt a German company, set up and ran by a German, would not be acutely aware of this.