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Behringer - Please think at least twice before buying anything from them
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This is literally a cartoon of Peter Kirn (who has a beard and looks like this) with a Pinocchio nose. Not a hook nose (the historically anti-semitic image), a Pinocchio nose. There is nothing anti-semitic about this.
There are all kinds of criticisms that one can legitimately make of this, but throwing around baseless anti-semitism claims really doesn't help anyone.
While it could quite easily be that was the intent, in the current state western society, because many have loudly shouted ‘Fire!’ So often, nobody even looks around now when they hear that call.
Maybe we may never be able to prove intent and will just have to chalk it down to sly underhanded action, because if we do other than action without proof, who truly is in a fair position to moan if they are ever judged to have wronged without proof?
It just looks like a caricature to me.
Even if unintentional, anyone in a major German marketing department should have been alerted by that picture considering the obvious similarities and sensitivities. Or they should all be looking for another dayjob.
I don't buy it that nobody raised their hand and pointed it out. Nothing to do with SJW or snowflakiness, but pure lack of professionalism and gross incompetence on their end, or a horrific act of trolling.
@brambos : thanks for speaking up.
Whoever said that Peter Kirn didn't mind: do you know that for a fact?
Peter is a super nice guy and a pretty positive person who has been supportive of a log of small developers.
This was not a good-natured joke. I don't think any of you saying "what's the big deal" would feel good if a big company posted a video intended to mock you.
All this talk of (paraphrasing) "people are too woke and used to take a joke better" is I believe misrepresentation of changes in our culture. Powerful and privileged people have gotten away with deriding people for ages without giving thought to the pain it causes or ignorance it spreads. The people that such speech hurts speaking up and not taking doesn't strike me as a bad thing. Privileged people are finding it uncomfortable and wish that the people they make fun of and demean would go back to taking it.
Independent of whether the video was anti-Semitic, the video and trademarking Peter's last name was a jerk move not done in a spirit of fun.
I think people taking Behringer's side are not thinking this through or are ignorant of their well-deserved reputations as a bully and not giving thought that the intention of the video was to be demeaning to someone.
This kind of thing is becoming more and more frequent.
Even more worryingly, the Orange-shit-gibbon does worse every day. This is having a horrible knock-on effect. After all, if the leader of the free world can mock whoever he wants in a moronic and horrific way, why can't we all do the same?
We are all literally letting the leaders of the world get away with murder.
Yes, that’s the bigger picture indeed. The normalization of behavior that used to be unacceptable and is slowly becoming the accepted norm.
It’s not ok. It’s not a matter of free speech. As a civilised society we have a responsibility to speak up against such antics even if it means paying more for another 303 clone.
It isn’t just the nose though, the position of the hands and the way eyes are drawn both have similarities too as well as the beard, even if we give them the benefit of the doubt about their motives the drawing is so close to the antisemitic style of cartoon character that they should have paused and thought “Hmmm maybe this makes us look like racists.”
Plus if they wanted to refer to Pinocchio why not draw him with his characteristic outfit and hat ?
At best the image is in poor taste and at worst antisemitic.
They probably are looking for alternative employment, or scapegoated one of their own.
Once you get the gold fish bowl effect in these establishments, it’s quite normal that all avenues are not obvious to them. This is very common.
It is probably even more difficult for them to notice all offensive possibilities, when the remit was most likely to go close to the lines of offence anyway - much of this type of material will always offend someone. I’m sure Spitting Image episode pitch meetings were just as closed minded.
There will always be some material that is more likely to offend, but also there are some people that are more likely to be offended. The lines are always in flux and opinion will surely be divided - that’s just natural. It could also be said to be obvious though that any arbiters lines drawn are pretty much just a presented personal bias - even when I used to do it myself. Eventually I learned that you can’t expect someone to respect your lines for offence, unless you at least show recognition that there is a right of alternatives.
So, I disagree of your choices of it could only be ‘pure lack of professionalism and gross incompetence, or trolling’. It may well be those choices, but alternatives exist beyond those that our own biases tell us must be true. Maybe they just are racist. Maybe there is another explanation entirely.
In much conversation here of late, I find myself leaning more towards the ‘free speech even when it hurts’ point of view. Bet it will annoy some, but it isn’t designed to. I just find the topic fascinating as it’s been on my mind a lot of late. Probably also shows how it’s a fine balance in my thoughts too, as I can often see the negativity these sorts of conversations have here. I also see the positives too - O so conflicted. I better go make more weird music
Does this Illustration :-
Look more like this : -
Or this : -
Hmmm....
Ironic since the entire reason we’re having this discussion is Behringer trying to stifle the free speech of one journalist. Can’t have your cake and eat it, in my opinion.
That’s why earlier I said that I find Behringer trying to stifle the free speech of people using the law to be more problematic imo than this act which seems more childish. I can look at this and go yeah I don’t think it’s what I would want a company to be doing. However, I would look at what they were doing taking people to court as that I would definitely not want companies to be doing.
This is so true, most free speech advocates can’t actually bear free speech and much of their complaints are about wanting to do and say what they like with no fear of consequences. That’s not how it works if it’s truly free; anyone is free to criticise and complain to their heart’s content, and someone is being a jerk then it’s all good that people call that out. The jerk is also free to protest their innocence and so the circle of debate continues
@Fruitbat1919 : independent of whether the image is anti-Semitic there was no good fun in this prank. They even took out a trademark on Kirn. So not a spontaneous momentary thoughtless joke. They were upset at Kirn for having reported on Behringer negatively and wanted to mock him.
I don't believe favoring free-speech requires one to not criticize expressions that are cruel,demeaning, ignorant or otherwise objectionable.
People are free to have their opinions but it doesn't mean all expressions should be accepted without comment.
hmmmm
This thread is amusing on so many different levels
No opinions should be accepted without comment blindly. More comment is great. We should all be free to criticise, but it’s dangerous if we try to close down words that we find ‘objectionable’ without concise law that lets everyone know what is and why it is forbidden, as in proof within law of intent of physical harm. It’s easy to say - “I don’t like those words”, until someone says the same about your own words. It’s easy for certain groups to use offence to control society and shut down positive discourse.
Yes, there are downsides to free speech and I’m sure the debate will rage for an age....until it’s closed down!
Ladies and gentlemen:
It would be anti-semitic if the caricature had a hook nose. A HOOK NOSE. Seriously, if people are going to make accusations of anti-semitism, at least learn something about the history of anti-semitism and the imagery that was used.
This was a total dick move by Behringer - but it wasn't anti-semitic.
Were they though? They were certainly using their power as a wealth company to try and humiliate a journalist. But other than the trademark thing (which they'd have lost - I see that as a stupid stunt), this is well within the bounds of free speech.
This reminded me of my ex girlfriend... grey rock master. I'm pretty good 'grey' myself nowadays.
It isn’t just the hook nose that is caricatured in the antisemitic cartoon as already stated, if their intention was to mock his honesty why not make their drawing more like Pinocchio ?
We should also remember that that it’s not the right of privileged white males to decide what is antisemetic or racist...
I wasn't saying it was. But there was a 100% chance that people who knew the original WW2 Nazi propaganda imagery would see and point out similarities. No marketing professional, let alone a German marketing team, would let this go live without knowing the consequences. Unintended by the illustrator or not.
Anyone over 40, especially in Europe, has seen the happy jewish merchant propaganda poster in History class. We can doubt the original image was intended this way but they should have known better. This has a huge red flag waving all over it.
The slow torture & murder of satire
Because you only need to show the nose and most people get the reference. That's how cartooning and caricatures work. This is a very common image used by hack cartoonists every day.
You're thinking of a hook nose, which would be anti-semitic. But they didn't use this. And everything else just looks like pretty standard caricature. Sure it's mean, but that's the purpose of caricature. To be mean.
So many things to criticize Behringer for here, without getting caught up in bullshit anti-semitism accusations.
I’m afraid I disagree, as someone of Jewish heritage, it certainly looks antisemitic to me, the omission of the nose being hooked is irrelevant when you look at the other similarities and the fact that the nose is exaggerated.
As I’ve said repeatedly if they had wanted to mock the journalist why pick an image that could be possibly misconstrued ? If they wanted to infer his dishonesty why not stick his head on a Pinocchio style body with a big nose and avoid drawing the beady eyes and grasping hands.
The similarities are too close in my view.
It isn’t just the hook nose that is caricatured in the antisemitic cartoon as already stated, if their intention was to mock his honesty why not make their drawing more like Pinocchio ?
We should also remember that that it’s not the right of privileged white males to decide what is antisemetic or racist...
Dude, it literally doesn't use any imagery that is traditionally anti-semitic. All you have is that the cartoon has a beard (as does Peter Kirn), and the eyes are a bit wild (as are the eyes in a number of underground comics from the 60s, and also someone like Peter Bagge). If it is anti-semitic, provide a better example to prove it.
Cool
Hopefully people will watch the video and not care about behringers pathetic PR stunts.
Stop feeding the monsters...
Ditto