Behringer - Please think at least twice before buying anything from them

[Deleted User]

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audiblevideo

Even IF the cartoon wasn’t anti-Semitic
Behringer apparently can’t handle critiques and had to punch down.

See the Golden rule:
Don’t be a dick

[Deleted User]

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palms

Slave trade is to thank for the battery in your phone, starbucks uses child laborers, nearly every thread you are wearing was likely made in a sweatshop, the list goes on and on... corporate monopolies are depleting the world's resources and fucking over humanity by and large, even worse, they're now mining us all to sell us our own sense of self worth back to us and addict us to it in the process. and this is the battle you pick?

this is a teensy drop in a toxic ocean. Yeah, I'll hate on behringer while I swipe my starbucks card, stare into my iphone while eating a nestle bar, then head to the gym wearing my new nike gear. yeah, fuck Uli..

but when that CS-80 clone drops, I'll be the first in line.

cian

@jrjulius said:

I get it, but you’re missing the point. Let’s take a step back from the specifics.

Pretend you want to draw a cartoon duck. You draw a rounded head, a long navy blue body, a saddle-shaped orange bill, and a goofy little cowlick. Someone sees this cartoon and assumes you were drawing Daffy Duck.

You can go off all you want — “Daffy is black not blue, and this character doesn’t have a white band on his neck, and my duck’s cowlick is on the BACK of his head whereas this character’s is on the FRONT.” It doesn’t matter. The image of Daffy Duck existed before you drew yours, and despite subtle differences, the overall effect looks enough like Daffy that people will assume you wanted to draw Daffy. If you didn’t want to draw Daffy, you should have looked critically at the drawing before publishing it and realized that people might seize on the similarities rather than the differences.

Same deal here. I’m not saying, and have never said, that any one element makes the cartoon anti-Semitic. What I’m saying, and have repeatedly said, is that the cartoon bears ENOUGH SIMILARITY to OTHER IMAGES that were HISTORICALLY USED in an anti-Semitic context that a person could easily see parallels.

Better analogy - you do a soft rock song that uses guitars. Some random guy who's not familiar with much music hears it and says, hey that sounds like this racist skinhead music I once heard about. This must be racist. Cue outrage.

I've seen a lot of comics over the years, and honestly if you think this looks similar, then you should see underground comix, or about 1/3 of French Bande Dessinée, or an awful lot of political cartoons. I've also seen quite a lot of anti-semitic cartoons over the years. The one thing they all shared - the hooked nose.

I guess I feel about this the way that I feel about that stupid Robin Thicke law suit. Robin Thicke is a wanker, but that wasn't plagiarism.

AndyPlankton

Ok, I’ve been reading, and laughing, and wtf’ing.....but seriously....
In the last couple of days, There was a fatal vehicle accident on a road that I drive on everyday, on the commute, A young boy of 8 years died...I drove right past that spot a few hours later, and do so every day, he’s now forgotten by the masses already....his spirit is still there though, everyday.

Then on the way to school with my 13 yo daughter....pulled up as I heard a siren....car I pulled up behind was parked at a strange angle...only had milliseconds to think about it..siren was the paramedic....went through the gap, noticed the crowd..all happened quick, but literally at that moment, someone was lay on the pavement, either dying or already dead....

Get a grip people...people are dying throughout the world before their time is up.....stop arguing about stupid shit.
People make money off each other....it’s life...unfortunately. let them do it however they want......

Zaubrer

The key is love

jrjulius

@cian So your familiarity with the form allows you to focus on the differences. You’re not wrong. Someone who’s totally unfamiliar with the form would likely never make the association. They’re not wrong.

Most people are dimly aware of anti-Semitic cartoons from seeing Nazi flyers in history class. They’ll see the similarities and might not catch the differences. They’re not wrong.

Since this ad was intentionally published, it was Behringer’s responsibility to anticipate how people might interpret the drawing. You can’t anticipate everything, I get it. But in this case the caricature looked “covetous” enough to make people wonder if it was intentionally anti-Semitic.

B messed up, plain and simple.

@Max23 You know full well that the beard alone isn’t the issue, or the nose, or any other single element. In combination, small traits suggest a recognizable whole.

TheOriginalPaulB

So, to sum up...

Behringer did a shitty thing in modifying a non anti-semitic cartoon to lampoon a non Jewish journo they don’t like.

Behringer were not being intentionally anti-semitic in modifying the cartoon to make it look like the non Jewish journo.

Behringer screwed up in not anticipating that some people might think that the resulting cartoon of the non Jewish journo looks like it might be a Jewish caricature and therefore anti-semitic.

Full disclosure. I have Jewish ancestry and Jewish relatives, but was raised a Christian and my wife is Muslim. You can’t make this stuff up...

[Deleted User]

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dreamrobe

i love it when a thread like this separates the wheat from the chaff.
way too many ppl here anyways.

AudioGus

@AndyPlankton said:
Ok, I’ve been reading, and laughing, and wtf’ing.....but seriously....
In the last couple of days, There was a fatal vehicle accident on a road that I drive on everyday, on the commute, A young boy of 8 years died...I drove right past that spot a few hours later, and do so every day, he’s now forgotten by the masses already....his spirit is still there though, everyday.

Then on the way to school with my 13 yo daughter....pulled up as I heard a siren....car I pulled up behind was parked at a strange angle...only had milliseconds to think about it..siren was the paramedic....went through the gap, noticed the crowd..all happened quick, but literally at that moment, someone was lay on the pavement, either dying or already dead....

Get a grip people...people are dying throughout the world before their time is up.....stop arguing about stupid shit.
People make money off each other....it’s life...unfortunately. let them do it however they want......

Did I mention that I saw a woman take a dump on the sidewalk outside a bank?

wim

Did she actually take it? Or did she leave one?

That phrase has always bothered me.

AndyPlankton

@wim said:
Did she actually take it? Or did she leave one?

That phrase has always bothered me.

LMFAO. Thank you

jrjulius

@Max23 said:

@jrjulius said:
@cian So your familiarity with the form allows you to focus on the differences. You’re not wrong. Someone who’s totally unfamiliar with the form would likely never make the association. They’re not wrong.

Most people are dimly aware of anti-Semitic cartoons from seeing Nazi flyers in history class. They’ll see the similarities and might not catch the differences. They’re not wrong.

Since this ad was intentionally published, it was Behringer’s responsibility to anticipate how people might interpret the drawing. You can’t anticipate everything, I get it. But in this case the caricature looked “covetous” enough to make people wonder if it was intentionally anti-Semitic.

B messed up, plain and simple.

@Max23 You know full well that the beard alone isn’t the issue, or the nose, or any other single element. In combination, small traits suggest a recognizable whole.

what is recognizable is that its supposed to be mr. kirn and it suggests he is a snob and a liar.
If you read what mr. kirn said it looks to me like he is responding to exactly this (snob/liar) and nothing else.
so as I see it he understood the not so subtil message exactly like that - no need to dig under the rug for things that aren't there.
I dont think any other similarities people want to see are worth the debate. the guy isnt even jewish. rofl

For those that didn’t know Kirn’s appearance or cultural background (i.e. almost everyone), the cartoon could have skewed too far towards unpleasant stereotypes.

It has nothing to do with whether he’s actually Jewish or not, and I’ve never accused Behringer (the man or the brand) of anti-Semitism. The point is that the drawing evoked certain images strongly enough that people started asking if it was intentional. They asked questions. Behringer backed down from some exceptionally petty bullying. No one was seriously hurt at the end of the day.

Bringing this all back to point A: Behringer made a bad move. I think everyone agrees on this, despite getting hung up on the finer points (and I fully implicate myself there).

[Deleted User]

It’s a good thing we have pandemics, natural disasters, and our own behaviors to thin out the herd as when there’s too many of us in one place it doesn’t seem to go well.

AudioGus

@wim said:
Did she actually take it? Or did she leave one?

That phrase has always bothered me.

Hehe, I always likened it to taking a break but I can appreciate your fecalconfusio.

AudioGus

@InfoCheck said:
It’s a good thing we have pandemics, natural disasters, and our own behaviors to thin out the herd as when there’s too many of us in one place it doesn’t seem to go well.

Alrighty, so looks like this nazi fx pedal thread thingy got all nice and wrapped up. No winners, no losers (well aside from those of us still posting). God bless us one and all.

SpookyZoo

@oat_phipps said:
I'm very thankful that the real world, at least the one I'm surrounded by every day, isn't full of people getting outraged, or worse, feigning it, over miniscule things. I used to take solace in the internet due to my distaste for the real world; nowadays I find myself relieved each time I have to go out into it again.

🍻

[Deleted User]

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JRSIV

I am supremely liberal, I know what democratic socialism is and am not afraid of it. I oppose the current occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. as much as a person can.

All that being said: goddamn do we liberals & those of a more empathetic frame of mind shoot ourselves in the foot too often. Behringer bit back at a blogger who will probably gain more readership and twitter followers out of this than anything. Are we that fragile about EVERYTHING? What it does is give ammo to right wingers who will take up the logical fallacy that we Democrat’s & liberal minded people complain & become offended at everything.

That in turn makes it all the more difficult to gain traction on the things that really matter! “No one is gonna tamper with our elections, that’s just dem liberals whining again...” Christ...and then to take the absurdity to another plateau, “Let’s boycott Behringer!” Really? Over a goofy cork sniffer shot? Hate to see the reaction if someone actually said something that WAS really offensive since now the bar is set so low, no one cares...

paradiddle

The pic is obvisouly ripped from that and it's called liar boy.

[Deleted User]

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[Deleted User]

I don't understand how so many folks readily accept a corporation picking on an individual. If it was just a person-to-person spat we wouldn't have even heard about this. But its not. Even if you don't think its anti-semetic what do we gain as a community from this sort of action? Nothing.

I agree there is a ton of suffering and hypocrisy in ever part in our day. Apple products are made under shit conditions and monopolizes a market. The food we buy etc etc. But this is categorically different. It is brazen to a level that warrants discussion and response.

jrjulius

@JRSIV said:
I am supremely liberal, I know what democratic socialism is and am not afraid of it. I oppose the current occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. as much as a person can.

All that being said: goddamn do we liberals & those of a more empathetic frame of mind shoot ourselves in the foot too often. Behringer bit back at a blogger who will probably gain more readership and twitter followers out of this than anything. Are we that fragile about EVERYTHING? What it does is give ammo to right wingers who will take up the logical fallacy that we Democrat’s & liberal minded people complain & become offended at everything.

That in turn makes it all the more difficult to gain traction on the things that really matter! “No one is gonna tamper with our elections, that’s just dem liberals whining again...” Christ...and then to take the absurdity to another plateau, “Let’s boycott Behringer!” Really? Over a goofy cork sniffer shot? Hate to see the reaction if someone actually said something that WAS really offensive since now the bar is set so low, no one cares...

Alright I know I should let this thread go but I’m having a quiet day at home so I want to clarify a few things:

• The call to boycott Behringer goes back to way way way before the Corksniffer thing and primarily has to do with their shameless cloning and aggressive patenting strategies. Some people also take issue with their attempts to bully and/or sue people who are critical of the company. This latest gaffe features all of those elements so it’s started up the discussion in earnest.
• Aside from early questions of anti-Semitism, which were addressed and mostly dropped early on, the main issue people have is that Behringer used its corporate weight to single out a lone journalist. We’re not offended per se — we’re unimpressed with how low they were willing to stoop.
• As far as people getting overly offended and taking things way too personally: in this scenario, Uli Behringer is the only snowflake. Kirn handled everything gracefully and with good humour.
• Facebook and Twitter comments got heated as always but from everything I’ve seen the heat was divided evenly between the “This is offensive” and “People are too easily offended” crowds.
• I would argue (and have spent too much time today arguing) that people were right to question whether the cartoon was anti-Semitic when the video first dropped. The answer is that it definitely wasn’t, but that doesn’t mean we were wrong to ask.

The only point here that really matters is the first one.

I’m a “pedal guy” so I recognize that cloning and reverse engineering are necessary practices that every company takes to some extent to stay competitive. But Behringer takes it to another level, often taking hostile or anti-competitive measures against the company they’re cloning from. This article is kind of long but well worth a read: https://cdm.link/2018/06/behringer-have-sued-dave-smith-instruments-forum-posters-for-defamation/

Anyhow! I don’t expect you to hate Behringer! But I hope this has provided some context into why the Corksniffer thing was such a big deal yesterday. It’s not just the one video.

JRSIV

@jrjulius said:

@JRSIV said:
I am supremely liberal, I know what democratic socialism is and am not afraid of it. I oppose the current occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. as much as a person can.

All that being said: goddamn do we liberals & those of a more empathetic frame of mind shoot ourselves in the foot too often. Behringer bit back at a blogger who will probably gain more readership and twitter followers out of this than anything. Are we that fragile about EVERYTHING? What it does is give ammo to right wingers who will take up the logical fallacy that we Democrat’s & liberal minded people complain & become offended at everything.

That in turn makes it all the more difficult to gain traction on the things that really matter! “No one is gonna tamper with our elections, that’s just dem liberals whining again...” Christ...and then to take the absurdity to another plateau, “Let’s boycott Behringer!” Really? Over a goofy cork sniffer shot? Hate to see the reaction if someone actually said something that WAS really offensive since now the bar is set so low, no one cares...

Alright I know I should let this thread go but I’m having a quiet day at home so I want to clarify a few things:

• The call to boycott Behringer goes back to way way way before the Corksniffer thing and primarily has to do with their shameless cloning and aggressive patenting strategies. Some people also take issue with their attempts to bully and/or sue people who are critical of the company. This latest gaffe features all of those elements so it’s started up the discussion in earnest.
• Aside from early questions of anti-Semitism, which were addressed and mostly dropped early on, the main issue people have is that Behringer used its corporate weight to single out a lone journalist. We’re not offended per se — we’re unimpressed with how low they were willing to stoop.
• As far as people getting overly offended and taking things way too personally: in this scenario, Uli Behringer is the only snowflake. Kirn handled everything gracefully and with good humour.
• Facebook and Twitter comments got heated as always but from everything I’ve seen the heat was divided evenly between the “This is offensive” and “People are too easily offended” crowds.
• I would argue (and have spent too much time today arguing) that people were right to question whether the cartoon was anti-Semitic when the video first dropped. The answer is that it definitely wasn’t, but that doesn’t mean we were wrong to ask.

The only point here that really matters is the first one.

I’m a “pedal guy” so I recognize that cloning and reverse engineering are necessary practices that every company takes to some extent to stay competitive. But Behringer takes it to another level, often taking hostile or anti-competitive measures against the company they’re cloning from. This article is kind of long but well worth a read: https://cdm.link/2018/06/behringer-have-sued-dave-smith-instruments-forum-posters-for-defamation/

Anyhow! I don’t expect you to hate Behringer! But I hope this has provided some context into why the Corksniffer thing was such a big deal yesterday. It’s not just the one video.

Okay, here's an example of @jrjulius calmly & logically bringing further context to the issue to help someone like me get a better grasp on the issue. Thanks brother and I sincerely appreciate it.

Reading my comment back I am really more pissed at the lack of a happy medium between being offended & shrugging stuff off that we have in the world at times. Uli Behringer & Kirn was just a jumping off point to comment on outrage culture really. It could've been any example that seemed a bit too touchy.

But obviously the Behringer situation goes deeper than that and upon reading up on it some more I certainly wouldn't of used the Kirn situation as an example of outrage culture had I known just how wide spread & complex Behringer's current negative joojoo is.

Here's where my tune changed: I thought most of the reproductions of synths, etc that Behringer have done were either out of patent or done to celebrate the model they're cloning, much like IKmultimedia & others have done with the amp simulators...

When I did some digging after seeing your comment it's clear: it ain't like that AT ALL.

I own Behringer stuff and won't make any declamatory statements about never buying their gear again. But I certainly have a different perspective on the situation, thanks @jrjulius

dendy

holy fuck. 8 pages of "antisemitic" nonsense discussion... unbelievable ... people your really need Drambo to be released, to stop wasting your time by discussing nonsenses on forum

TheOriginalPaulB

@Max23 said:
did I mention they make good tasting beer in Kirn?

cheers

Where’s the cork?...

[Deleted User]

@TheOriginalPaulB said:

@Max23 said:
did I mention they make good tasting beer in Kirn?

cheers

Where’s the cork?...

Clearly the cap is still on and no cork is necessary at this time.

Hkor

In France it's call HUMOUR NOIR...
So, we are all doing free advertising for Behringer