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Comments
@MeatWalrus, Mr. Walrus, I am not sure you read the links you posted. Here is the conclusion of the second article you recommended we read...
“The first, that Clinton "paid for a Russian dossier to win an election," contains a hint of truth (that the Clinton campaign paid the firm that wrote the Steele dossier), but it isn’t the full picture. It’s true that Bill Clinton once made $500,000 by giving a speech to a Russian company. The claim that Clinton "sold 20% of US Uranium to Russia" exaggerates the percentage involved and Clinton's role; she didn’t have sole decision-making power over the deal. And it’s an exaggeration to say that the Clinton Foundation "received $150M from Russia" — it may be closer to $4 million from Uranium One investors.
The post contains an element of truth but ignores critical facts that would give a different impression. We rate it Mostly False.”
I’m afraid you are proving exactly what you wish to disprove, and more so, reflect the flimsy and cherry picked evidence conspiracy theorists use to fuel their rage at the machine.
I watched - people you may know - few days back, in the uk at least it was hidden behind 2 paywalls, amazon prime video, then the sundance channel. Tis an excellent doc that I’d recommend to all members regardless of political or non political alignment.
As it deals with manipulation and this technology isn’t going away anytime soon, is good to be aware of its methodologies and consequences, as this technology is proliferating at a fast rate and also getting more sophisticated. I know a lot of you are already aware of all this, but it’s nice to see it all laid out and hearing from some of the people behind the tech and the researchers unraveling what’s been happening in the last few years especially.
This tech though can be used to actually help people, quite a few of the churches involved in using it, are using it to help their communities unaware of the M.O of the companies that developed it and the groups who sponsored its development. I’d recommend watching social dilemma first (on netflix) then this after on prime, I used the free seven day trial for sundance channel.
In the middle of watching this at the moment, on a similar tip...
I'm reading American Rule at the moment, by the guy @audiblevideo posted a short vid of a few days ago. Its a dark history of the US and I have been completely unable to put it down these past few days, a serious eye opener.
https://www.amazon.com/American-Rule-Nation-Conquered-Failed/dp/1524745715
“Sexton continues to serve as a historical myth buster, tackling the belief of America as a fair and just government of the people, and portraying instead a broken system built by and for white elites… Sexton is effective at drawing parallels between contemporary politics and historic events… Recommended primarily for those concerned by the tone and direction of American politics and seeking a better understanding of the question on which the book is framed: ‘How did we get here?’”
— Library Journal
Interesting statement by the Medics working on Trump, magical you could say, they didn’t want to steer the illness in a negative direction, so only spoke positively about it. Doctorate in Magicke, obviously a student of Hogwarts.
Thanks for tackling this guy again, Mike. It's exhausting and so sad they can trying to adjudicate the 2016 election in an effort to protect the Dear Leader's Ego and the Historical Record with "whadda 'bout-ism"
tactics like this. Every candidate pays for opportunities research and this was a company that served docs to both sides of the question. Republicans paid to insure Trump was vetted and then backed off
when it was clear he was going to knock off better candidates that split the votes. So, they just lined up to ride his coattails and gave him the control and brand of their Party. It serves them right for that trade off that they will continue to loose ground. But the damage they can do in the next 90 days is huge and hard to fix.
FLOTUS didn’t want to put the secret service in danger, but not so for Donnie Dumbf###.
Donnie’s infected joy ride is the first time he ever maintained proper use of a mask for a public event so... I’m calling this a win for science.
[edit: this is sarcasm, science says he should isolate himself completely for at least 10 days or until his symptoms are gone and he goes 24 hours with no fever]
Enjoy
@LinearLineman @McD My issue now is that y’all are saying Trump is bad but what about these other actors like Biden and Obama ,Clinton’s and Bushes surely you don’t support such People do you . These are the Machine and puppets of the system and you guys promote conspiracy all day with the Russia and racism non stop . Just saying . Anyway hope all is well just throwing out some different views to keep it interesting. .
Peace ✌️
I can tell when a set of facts are being used to create a conspriracy theory. The intelligence community without exception proved that the Russian's interfered with the 2016 election and the the Trump Campaign eagerly accepted and coordinated with them to release stolen information for political advantage.
What's happening now is a disinformation campaign without serious credibility. I support a democratic regime change of the executive branch using the only effective, legal means to do so: voting. Now voting is being attacked... openly as a conspiracy to remove the President. You can't make this shit up. The insanity of this era will continue for ages with useful idiots. Yourself included...
"Sell crazy somewhere else. We're all full up here." - Jack Nicholson in "As Good As It Gets"
Ok well Obama And Hillary started this Russia conspiracy and many people believe it . hahaha You trust her ?? I don’t want to insult you I can’t believe how hateful a lot of people on the Left Are being I thought we were opened minded loving individuals . I’m not trying to attack you or any other people here on a personal level but this thread it is obvious you can hurl insults and put people down as long as you hate Ol Trumpy but if you differ in opinion then you can’t say shit . And will be told we don’t attack people . You guys haven’t said shit about how wrong your movement is on so many levels . So keep believing your bullshit And feel like your important and smart for regurgitating Democrat talking points what a sheep you are if you believe Obama and Hillary your just following the establishment for real cause they own it !!
@MeatWalrus, I agree. You shouldn’t be called an idiot. That aside, you are missing something if you do not understand that Republicans embraced demeaning the opposition quite some time ago. It’s about all they have left in terms of a party philosophy. Remember, at the RNC, they, for the first time, had no platform. Whatever Donald says, that’s their platform. Literally. That’s the behavior of a fascist, as well as cultish mindset. In a cult you believe EVERYTHING the leader says.
I am no particular fan of Biden, but that’s the alternative we have. The only part of your globally misguided POV I am talking about here is your accusations about “attacks” above. If you compare the rhetoric Trump has been using all along to Biden's it is easy to see Who is the Attacker In Chief.
You could try and see that just about everything T attacks is a projection of what he, himself, thinks or does. Particularly noteworthy is his claim the Dems are rigging the election, when it is obvious, because he is losing, that he is desperately attacking the elective process... the central tenet being the right to vote... in order to retain power and stall prosecution for his manifold crimes.
America is hopeless. There’s no point in even debating. How are other counties handling the pandemic?
Ok I see what your saying . But Nancy Pelosi and Hillary say we should not except a Trump victory or concede the election what so ever because he is stealing it or cheating . And Trump is accusing them of same
Well we need to talk a little I hope we are not hopeless . Maybe we can find common ground through dialogue and understand that they divide us to control us .
@MeatWalrus, thanks for your open mindedness. Can you, please, substantiate your claims about Pelosi or Hillary with their actual quotes? I haven’t seen them.
@MeatWalrus : Neither Pelosi nor Hillary Clinton have said that they won't accept election results if Trump wins.
What do you mean "Ok well Obama And Hillary started this Russia conspiracy and many people believe it ."
Which Russia conspiracy?
In what way did they start it?
if America's only problem was difference of opinion, there'd be hope. This isn't just the pandemic. It's a process that started with 9/11, and has been slowly become worse over the last 19 years. 9/11 shocked America so deeply, that all of its hope, trust, and charity began to fade. Americans would talk about the virtues of freedom, democracy and blast the tyranny of other regimes, but tolerate being monitored by its own government. Americans stopped trusting and helping other Americans. Americans began to justify cruelty, racism, intolerance, and torture for the greater good. Americans defend their system while knowing its completely broken.
I knew America was lost when school shootings happened, and no laws were changed, and then it just became common and the solution became active shooter training for students. The mindset that kids should be responsible for their own survival instead of the system being designed better to protect them is mind-blowing. Then came the gradual change in the poverty line and people's decreased access to health care. Was the solution a better health care system? no, the solution was crowdfunding online for the money needed for life-saving treatment. So when I see this pandemic and again people are talking conspiracy theories and putting the responsibility on individuals, instead of making the system better, its no surprise.
America is broken, perhaps beyond repair. Because while more Americans are losing work, and dying, your billionaires are getting richer. Your system protects the people gaming the system and leaves everyone else to fend for themselves.
FYI: A "useful idiot" is a person that amplifies Russian Propaganda:
The argument that Hillary created a false case against Trump is pure propaganda that no Western intelligence organization believes. Only "useful idiots" are pushing this aggressively. It doesn't mean they are an idiot but it does put their critical thinking into question.
It doesn't hold up. It's a conspriracy theory that Trump forces believe takes the pressure off of him and the campaign staffers that have been prosecuted and are now convicted felons. No democrat has been indicted let alone convicted.
I'll stand by the use of the trade craft spy term "useful idiot" and would expect that we do not encourage
it to be examined here in the interest of some well intentioned "fairness". It's a dangerous set of memes without a solid core of truth. There's nothing wrong in pay for research on your opponent and it's standard practice. It's a reason candidates are vetted. Why a political party would look at their business records and request tax documents to make sure the candidate doesn't do damage to the Party.
That vetting failed in 2016 and the US Courts are also protecting a man with a long trail of criminal actions including tax fraud, using campaign funds to pay off someone that can provide useful information to the voters, taking money or promising influence to foreign powers for personal gain.
I hope this explains that the "idiom" useful idiot is not the same as the noun idiot. @MeatWalrus is obviously not an idiot. He's more of a logical tap dancer and a general asshat, IMHO.
We should rebuke repeatedly asserting false evidence that has been debunked by experts and endorsed by some individuals with a lot to hide that are currying the favor of financial sources in Russia, the UAE, Turkey and the Philippines.
Asking a propagandist for more details is really a bad idea, IMHO. It seeks to validate the thin storyline they are pushing onto the low information voter as a means of influencing the upcoming election. We shouldn't be a party to that here, IMHO. It's like throwing more fuel on a wild fire or not wearing a mask in the time of a pandemic. It's not a right, it just the behavior of an idiot. Wear masks and don't spout Russian talking point.
Shall we debate masks, too or endorse sensible behaviors to keep the hospitals empty and not running crazy with infected patients. That's all this was intended to do... bend the curve to meet the available supplies and hospital resources. Of course, most can get the virus and live. It appears Trump can get the virus and live but he had priority for his health care and got a medical treatment regimen that "no one else is eligible for. I don't think it was a wise course of treatment but he's a selfish asshole that is "smarter" than his doctors and only uses ones that follow his orders. "Useful idiots" of another type... complicit fools and liars. "He's very healthy."
Time will tell.
Sources for those “quotes” from Clinton and Pelosi?
@McD, it’s a free country.... so far. If @MeatWalrus didn’t say what 99.9% of us here find ludicrous you wouldn’t have a chance to say all the stuff you do. What would you hope to accomplish by silencing him? It is far better to hear and see what is circulating under your feet then to be surprised by it... as pretty much all decent Americans have been surprised by the racist Trump’s appeal to at least 50,000,000 of us. If the National consciousness had been higher in 2015 more voters would have turned out to defeat him, as, hopefully, they will in November.
It is disconcerting to be bitten by a cloud of conspiratorial gnats, but the cost of simply silencing them to do their infecting secretly and underground is far worse, IMO. As Olivia Troye said of Thump’s debate performance.... now everyone can see what he is like in the White House. We need to starkly see the nihilistic destroyers at their spinning wheels. They can be our “useful idiots” as well.
You are falling for the game of a conspiracy agenda trying to validate the flimsiest of facts when it
takes the discussion to adjudicating the 2016 election where the "right man" won but was maligned
and "spied upon". Read the Mueller report. The facts are spread across 400 pages and this democratic
"criminal" activity doesn't show up? Pretty odd huh? It only surfaced with the efforts of Devin Nunes, Rudy Giuliani, etc. It's a disinformation campaign to take our eyes off he ball.
The 2020 election has been called "rigged" and one that Trump "cannot loose". If he looses it only serves to prove that it was stolen. The Proud Boys have been asked to go to polling places and "watch them cheat". "Standy back and Stand By".
Then for Plan B he needs 9 Supreme Courts justices to decide the "true outcome of the election.".
The transition fo Facisim is real and not a theory. It's as plain as the nose on your face.
Vote and make it so obvious he lost that the courts will do the right thing and not overturn the will of the people.
Trump will go forward repeating his lies and working his base for violence and a new TV network to
provide the "real news". The political actions will shift to Ivanka's campaign. I think it will fail.
@McD, assuming you can’t summarily execute these offenders what would you suggest? Simply chasing them into a rathole has only empowered them over the last twenty years. Even a rathole has Wi-Fi these days.
Recognize a propaganda campaign and call it out for what it is. If this is all news to you then
I will provide links to help you educate yourself.
@MeatWalrus is not what I'm attacking. The propaganda and the concept of a useful idiot is my
message. I'm not sooting the messenger. I'm attacking a message that has been refuted and
does not deserve to be debated here.
Yes and a "sense of fairness" has created the situation we see with people unable to get news
that contains even a shred of analysis. It's "news" that comes from campaigns. But there are
"facts" and there are "lies" mixing the two into a right to free speech confuse the nature of
reality. I'm not buying it. A good propaganda campaign will create "sources". It's trivial to provide
the appearance of evidence.
What;s missing is a trusted authority. There are just debating agendas.
But there ARE authoritative sources without an agenda: the intelligence community if generally
the source of guidance but I'm sure we'll see many who refuse to accept their findings. Mueller's investigation was invalidated by a corrupt Attorney General that has joined the message about mail-in votes putting the election in doubt.
Facists need collaborators and they are defeated with resistance. Take a stand. Time's running out.
Everything Trump has done has divided America
Everything he’s has done has weakened our ties with our allies
Everything Trump has done has been to avoid criticizing Putin
Everything he’s has done has contradicted what OUR intelligence agencies have told us is true
There is NO comparison of Trump to any other presidency. No other office holder has been an outright fascist
One of the reasons Trump holds any sway is his corruption and takeover of an entire political party.
Another reason is the steady and deliberate diet of parts of America on conservative propaganda which has fostered conspiracy and extremism. Trump fed on this like no one else ever has.
Exhibit one of many: shooting at a pizza parlor by a gunman convicted there was a child sex ring there.
There is NO COMPARISON
Trump is a sociopathic Fascist liar and propagandist
It’s the only thing besides money laundering he’s ever been good at
@McD, I’m voting. That’s it. Did you protest the Vietnam War? I didn’t, but I made sure I didn’t go.
If you make the Walrus stop posting what kind of victory have you won? MarkB has been silenced, Robert Reynolds disgusted. What have we accomplished? ABF cleansed of any kind of dissent? Is that worth anything? Silence. Smells like Victory!
I asked @MeatWalrus to provide the evidence. You seem to think that is playing into his hands. I doubt he will come up with the alleged quotes.
Why are you rising up now? You didn’t twenty years ago, I’m guessing.
You were part of the work machine, I believe. Was it all fair to you back then? All “under control”? It seemed fair to me. I was damn successful! But it fucking wasn’t. It’s better if they squawk, IMO. Let us at least be cognizant of what is happening.
Only in a timid way because the protesters had no honor that I saw. Very much like these
Antifa asshats. People that will never build anything of any value but can break glass.
My dad was a 25 year Marine Major. I was going if drafted but my number came up as 364 and I went to college instead. My dad went to Korea so he was NOT down for another Asian Civil War to beat back communism. He hated communism but didn't think the US was really at risk and Civil Wars are bloody
in every case with limited victory... just some sort of cease fire. The losers keep fighting and erecting monuments to the losing side. Go figure. So many dead and communism keeps marching on.
I'm fighting the spread of outright nonsense on the forum. Debunked conspiracy bullshit.
Shall we entaintain another round of pedophilia and child eating theories in the interest of
maintaining an "open mind". Use your minds and engage you mouths... sometimes outrage is
warranted. They will stop or at least crawl back into their caves when this bullshit is not considered free speech at it's best. HE CAN WRITE FREELY BUT EXPECT PUSHBACH ON LIES. The Hillary is a Russian Agent story is weak tea. It's actually so convoluted it defies comprehension. It leads to Trump best the Russian by blocking her and now she should be jailed when Mueller did not indict Trump because of a memo.
I fucking memo put us in this state. So, impeachment failed without even calling for witnesses to
testify. The subpoenas were blocked and courts are still hearing that case.
I have encouraged many to share there views... Robert, @Infocheck, etc. But I will not countenance
becoming a forum for debunked propaganda. That I will fight aggressively. I also use words. I have not
blacked anyone. Just asked them to provide trusted information and not spread half-truths as we did with the "Biden the pedo" crap.
But it's "Are you still beating your wife?" "Biden is straight up pedophile". Call it what it is. Recognize the line was just crossed into the cesspool.
Are you connecting Vietnam to confronting foreign influence in our functioning democracy?
Do you see an equivalency? Don't guess. Think it through.
You're sliding about on thin ice and we're not making any progress.
Covid has become politicized in the US in a way that will double our current record.
I know we all need to get it at some point. Just not all in one year... that's a disaster.
This thread is about Covid and Hillary did not negotiate with China to make it and drop in on Trump's
administration. That's just silly and beyond belief, right? So, fuck Hillary.
Vote for the anti-Trump. Sure he's a little past his due date but he's not going to destroy the system
in 4 years. On Wednesday we'll see what Kamala can do to close the deal and if Pence will try the
"stolen election" story line he's probably being asked to support. I doubt he wants to follow Trump
into irrelevance in record time but might like to run for something else in a couple years. I doubt
he'll double down on the facism, racism and kleptocratic trends Trump has in play. So, he'll try the
Great American story lines and faith in God with a dash of a woman's "right to exist".
I agree about silencing opposition, don’t do it, confront it, lay out the facts and prove it to be nonsense. I certainly don’t believe ignoring it will just make it go away.
Fighting a conspiracy theory as a debate of rational facts is a huge part of the problem and why many sites have just decided to block certain offenders. They introduce racist, sexist and hateful dialogue into
a normal rational fact based forum or communication channel.
Conspiracy theories are always plausible and defatting them by asking for more facts and refuting the
facts one at a time leads to a lot of wasted time and effort. You cannot prove a negative. And conspriracy
theories are a house of cards built around a lie you cannot "disprove". If they seem plausible the
cannot be countered with facts.
But stye have the power of someone calling out FIRE in a crowded theater and then claiming free speech
protected them. People are injured and passing along conspriracy theories, however well intended the
person may be, just allows someone to be injured with no option for redress. Let's call them out when we spot them.
I'm attacking the "Hillary colluded with Russia and Obama helped" bullshit. It seems harmless to most of us but it spreads and the truth is trampled and Putin smiles and slips into Ukraine unopposed. He's been
fucking with Ukraine for years and we're quibbling about needing a wall to stop people from crossing the border when it will never actually work for the stated problem. It's a distraction from the wholesale corruption that's going on inside the government to give Trump and his cronies access to the cash register. Government contracts have always been a source of corruption and we're arguing over
premarital sex and what to do about unwanted pregnancies. Woman have and will abort babies...
should that be a crime? Not allow them safe access to an abort or even a pill for fuck sake. That's criminal in my book. I get your sense of morality is offended. I prefer being protected from your religion.
We started with that in mind and NOW we are seeking the courts protect your religion against my rights.
WTF.